Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 11:41     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:First of all, I have no intention of "filing a complaint" or raising issues of hostile work environment.

I would like to let him know he's out of step.

When the head of the agency says things like "This is Larlo Larloson. Don't ask him to stop calling you ma'am because I've tried three times and he won't" you have a career problem on your hands. It doesn't matter that he was raised that way. It doesn't matter that it's a gesture of respect. What he's doing is not in step with our agency culture. Get it?


Lighten up Francis.


That's a military movie reference, fossil.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 11:33     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
If he is military, then its the expectation that he refer to anyone that way. Its a sign of respect. Maybe you should try that vs. insisting he change to be like you. What is the big deal? He is used to the reverse where if he didn't say it, there would be severe consequences. In the future, recommend to your company not to hire military. Problem solved. Maybe the office culture needs changing and people taught to be more respectful and welcoming.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 11:32     Subject: Re:Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Why can't people understand that what is disturbing is that the male colleague has no problem remembering and addressing other men as individuals but treats all the women as an indistinguishable mob? That is denigrating.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 11:31     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:I totally get you, OP. There is a man in our neighborhood who insists on doing this to all women as well. In fact, he is the head of our HOA, so each time you have to deal with the HOA, this is how he addresses you. I do not care for it either and I too feel it is distancing and a throw-back. I am 42, so I ma not a snowflake, and I would say he is about. . .60? I also feel it diminishes me and makes me feel as if he does not view my voice as equally important as a) a man's or b) an older person's. I feel he treats me like just a little girl in the neighborhood.

Adding to it: he also signs all his emails with, "Blessings, Larlo." I ALSO think this makes him stick out. I am religious too (Roman Catholic) but I do not think it is appropriate to sign non-religious emails with "Blessings." Too personal. It would be equally weird if he signed an email, "Love, Larlo," or "Hugs, Larlo." LOL!

Won't someone tell these men to catch up with modern professional forms of communication?


So your position is that he should "catch up with modern" times because you feel uncomfortable? This is tantamount to saying that people of other cultures must assimilate because you are uncomfortable with them. In our "modern" times, have we decided that cultural assimilation diminishes those how we have in the past demanded to assimilate? Doesn't modern liberalism demand that we include everyone to the point of accepting their idiosyncrasies and that not doing this makes one a throwback to lest enlightened times? While it is paradoxical that being "modern" means accepting others pre-modern behaviors it is equally incongruous to demand that others change their behaviors to fit our perception of cultural norms because this itself was pre-modern behavior.

Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 11:26     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:I think it reflects his discomfort with the females.


As OP is clearly uncomfortable with ex-military. However, if this could in fact possibly harm him at your office, then someone should bring it up to him for his own benefit and for the comfort of the NOW set.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 11:21     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
I totally get you, OP. There is a man in our neighborhood who insists on doing this to all women as well. In fact, he is the head of our HOA, so each time you have to deal with the HOA, this is how he addresses you. I do not care for it either and I too feel it is distancing and a throw-back. I am 42, so I ma not a snowflake, and I would say he is about. . .60? I also feel it diminishes me and makes me feel as if he does not view my voice as equally important as a) a man's or b) an older person's. I feel he treats me like just a little girl in the neighborhood.

Adding to it: he also signs all his emails with, "Blessings, Larlo." I ALSO think this makes him stick out. I am religious too (Roman Catholic) but I do not think it is appropriate to sign non-religious emails with "Blessings." Too personal. It would be equally weird if he signed an email, "Love, Larlo," or "Hugs, Larlo." LOL!

Won't someone tell these men to catch up with modern professional forms of communication?
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 11:09     Subject: Re:Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman (NP). I would find that remembering all the mens' names and using them, but addressing all the women only as men, made me feel like the men are the real team here, and the women are kind of outside that. I can't know how it's intended, but that's the effect it would have on me.


Agree with this and I'm in my 40's, so hardly the snowflake generation.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 10:35     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
I would just politely and briefly remind him every time he does it - "hey, Bob, remember, I prefer to go by Larla - anyway, in response to your question about the presentation ..."
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 10:15     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:I am not getting why people can't seem to have mildly uncomfortable conversations anymore. You have told him to call you by your first name. Now say, hey joe, I understand where you're coming from, but it's making the rest of us feel uncomfortable. From now on, please address everyone in the office by first name. Boom.

OP is just a colleague. A boss could have this conversation but not a random coworker. The coworker has to stick to what SHE prefers and let it go.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 10:14     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:And by the way, your giving me some explanation or psychoanalysis of why he does this -- so what? Am I supposed to pass this on to some client who no longer takes him seriously or wants to work with him?

"Sorry Deputy Secretary, you need to understand that's the way the military works."

Quite a few people have given you a script here- what else are you looking for? Do you want to post his number so we can call him and deliver the news ourselves, do you think that might do the trick?
You have three options:
- continue to remind him to call you by your first name every time he doesn't
- pick someone to pull him aside and tell him he is making a faux pas
- go to his manager with a complaint

Do you think there is some other magical option we can give you?
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 10:05     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:And by the way, your giving me some explanation or psychoanalysis of why he does this -- so what? Am I supposed to pass this on to some client who no longer takes him seriously or wants to work with him?

"Sorry Deputy Secretary, you need to understand that's the way the military works."


If she is Deputy Secretary, she is very used to being called Ma'am. I'm sure she doesn't mind.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 10:00     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
He can learn to be in step with the corporate culture. Let's not pretend that veterans cannot learn that. Or that men can't, or that older people can't. It's BS.

I always laugh when I get emails from our ex-military people signed "V/R". In case you don't know, that stands for "Very Respectfully." You know what seems not respectful? Abbreviating your damn closing!
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 09:54     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
And by the way, your giving me some explanation or psychoanalysis of why he does this -- so what? Am I supposed to pass this on to some client who no longer takes him seriously or wants to work with him?

"Sorry Deputy Secretary, you need to understand that's the way the military works."
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 09:52     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
This is OP. There seem to be a lot of people here who feel that I'm out to get this guy, that I'm going to somehow use this fact against him or file a complaint or trip him up, and then there are a number of people who feel that I'm oversensitive or pitiful or whatever.

I'm trying to help this guy.

I get that some of you think this is a character-plus for him, a show of respect that he calls women by an honorific. But it comes across very badly. It's jarring to be in a meeting and have someone say "Ma'am, I'd like to call your attention to -- " Our clients don't like it. We are a client service unit. It really doesn't matter that you think or people think this is polite. It doesn't work for us.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 09:44     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
I am not getting why people can't seem to have mildly uncomfortable conversations anymore. You have told him to call you by your first name. Now say, hey joe, I understand where you're coming from, but it's making the rest of us feel uncomfortable. From now on, please address everyone in the office by first name. Boom.