*deferential not differential. I hate auto correct.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't like it because I think all humans are equal, regardless of age. All people are deserving of courtesy, again, regardless of age. And using honorifics for only certain people in a social setting sets the tone that we are not all equals. You can be courteous and caring without titles. But would I fall on this sword in an argument with my husand? Probably not. I'd discuss my beliefs about it with the kids as they got older. At some point, They will decide how they want to address others anyway.

Oh wow, I don't even know where to begin. Do you seriously not believe it is good for children to respect authority? Surely kids cannot be given authority over adults so how exactly do you define equality? Of course children deserve respect but that doesn't mean that they are on an equal playing field with adults. In fact, I make it a point to tell my kids they are not equal with adults. It doesn't mean they should be treated more poorly, it means that they do not have the authority to say and act however they want. So whether it's me, their teacher, their friend's parent, their babysitter, they need to respect that authority.

I recently moved to the South from DC and have heard a few kids say 'sir' and 'ma'am.' It's actually surprisingly really nice to hear. It just sounds like someone who has been raised with a lot of class and manners. We have so much of the opposite nowadays with parents treating their kids like friends (or 'equals'), and kids treating adults with zero respect. I say if it reinforces respect and courtesy, why not?

I want my child to be courteous to all people, Not just those older than they are.

It's not a failure to teach manners. It's just a different approach to manners. It's not a free pass to act inappropriately. It's teaching appropriate behavior within the context that all humans are worthy of kindness and consideration, my child included. From the infant to the elderly. The disabled to the powerful.

I think the "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" teachings are more cultural/locational than some other forms of manners in the US, so I understand why some/most here in DC wouldn't teach it. Do you teach your children to call their teachers, and the elderly, Mr., Ms., or Miss, or do you teach them to call their teachers by their first (or last) name only?

In general, I teach my kids to call people what they prefer to be called. And they default to Mr. or Ms. Last Name if they aren't sure. School and work are different settings to me than a social interaction. There are definitely different classes and levels of authority at school and work. These are places people "do" have power over you and to whom you must be differential. That goes for adults and children alike.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the NE, married a person from the South, we lived in DC up until a little while ago, when we moved to the South.

When my DS was 1yr old and starting to talk my MIL called me up and told me that it was very important to her and my FIL that our DS was taught to say yes ma'am and no sir, etc. That it was a sign of respect and that if we planned to move "home" our kids would be expected to say it in school, etc. Growing up in the NE, we never said that and only a pissed of sales person at a store would call you ma'am. We were taught to say yes please, no thank you, call people Mrs. Smith, etc.
I was offended, and told her she needed to call her son, and have this conversation with him, since he had never brought it up. It turns out he did have an opinion as well on it.

As a side note, we had a lot of southern friends in DC and 1/2 were raising their kids to say it and about 1/2 were not.

Well, 12 years later my kids say yes ma'am and no ma'am and if they don't hear you properly, instead of saying "huh?" or "What?" they will say "ma'am?" or "sir?".

We now live in the south and I was shocked by how few children say it, after my conversations with my IL's and politely reminding and instilling it in my kids up until now, they are often the only kids using it. I do get lots of complements on how well mannered and polite my children are from other parents and their teachers.

Even in the South, I would say it's a bit old-fashioned and much more common in more rural areas or areas with lots of long-time residents. In the larger cities, which is most of the South now, it's not as much of a thing as it used to be.

At the high school I went to, my older brother's class was the first class allowed to wear shirts untucked, as part of the dress code, and my class was the first allowed to wear shorts! He was mad that he missed it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well given some of the responses on here it does sound like some people do appreciate being sir'ed and ma'amed. Particularly if you are an older AA or someone from the south, I bet you would very much appreciate it. No, not every child has to say it but I certainly don't think it's going to offend anyone if OP's children say it. And if it does offend you, then you need to find some bigger problems.

It actually does offend some people to be called sir and ma'am -- just as some people like being called sir and ma'am.

And it is not polite to call somebody sir or ma'am if they don't want to be called sir or ma'am.

It offends them? Someone can have a preference to not be called or sir or ma'am without being offended by it, and they can tell the kids to just call them Janet or Bob.
How do you figure someone is *offended* by sir or ma'am? Sounds like you are reaching.

Anonymous wrote:
Ick. I grew up in a military family that tried to force this on me and it's gross. There is already a clear authority between parent and child, you do not need to add to it.

Ditto. Every time I said it, I was thinking "Fock you". Respect is earned.

+2. Every time my awful mother said "Yes WHAT?" I was thinking the same. Now my kid says it b/c he takes tae kwon do and I had to force myself not to cringe for the 1st year of it. (He got really into it and was being taught it was a good thing, and was 3, so I left it be)

I grew up in the NE, married a person from the South, we lived in DC up until a little while ago, when we moved to the South.

When my DS was 1yr old and starting to talk my MIL called me up and told me that it was very important to her and my FIL that our DS was taught to say yes ma'am and no sir, etc. That it was a sign of respect and that if we planned to move "home" our kids would be expected to say it in school, etc. Growing up in the NE, we never said that and only a pissed of sales person at a store would call you ma'am. We were taught to say yes please, no thank you, call people Mrs. Smith, etc.
I was offended, and told her she needed to call her son, and have this conversation with him, since he had never brought it up. It turns out he did have an opinion as well on it.

As a side note, we had a lot of southern friends in DC and 1/2 were raising their kids to say it and about 1/2 were not.

Well, 12 years later my kids say yes ma'am and no ma'am and if they don't hear you properly, instead of saying "huh?" or "What?" they will say "ma'am?" or "sir?".

We now live in the south and I was shocked by how few children say it, after my conversations with my IL's and politely reminding and instilling it in my kids up until now, they are often the only kids using it. I do get lots of complements on how well mannered and polite my children are from other parents and their teachers.

Anonymous wrote:

Well given some of the responses on here it does sound like some people do appreciate being sir'ed and ma'amed. Particularly if you are an older AA or someone from the south, I bet you would very much appreciate it. No, not every child has to say it but I certainly don't think it's going to offend anyone if OP's children say it. And if it does offend you, then you need to find some bigger problems.

It actually does offend some people to be called sir and ma'am -- just as some people like being called sir and ma'am.

And it is not polite to call somebody sir or ma'am if they don't want to be called sir or ma'am.

My mom was raised in the south but taught me to use the person's name instead. She did not subscribe to "yes, sir" and "yes, mam." This was the same philosophy in her classroom. Mom is 80 and I am 54.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Husband grew up very old fashioned. He is African American. I grew up in a very laid back household. I am white. Husband wants children to say, "yes sir" and "yes mam." I find it very odd and weird because it's very slave like lingo to me. As if you are saying "yes sir, master." Your take?

Geeze, if teaching children to be polite and respectful is 'slave like lingo, we're really hitting bottom.

OP here. Sorry, just my take on it because I never heard children say this in real life. We are both born and raised in dc

I was born and raised in DC. I grew up saying "Yes, sir," and "Yes, ma'am," and that was reinforced when I went to a Big 3. All adults were to be addressed as sir and ma'am and called Mr. or Mrs./Ms. and their last name.

I consider it a sign of respect and politeness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's certainly not just a "slave thing." Plenty of parents do this, but it's more concentrated in the South.

I'd let him take the lead on this, because with biracial (black) kids, he knows better than you how to raise them to be respectful in society.

Massive inner eyeroll. In moments like this I pray comments like this are from trolls. I don't even know what this means.- Black blood is innately more respectful? Black blood only learns from black blood? Craziness.

I'm a northerner and I agree it's a little 'perpetuating oppression' for me to address parents in this way (slave master, etc).

It's fine for addressing others but in a family unit, we have no need for our multiracial kids to call us sir or ma'am.

You completely missed the point. OP has biracial kids, and when the world looks at them they will see black kids. They will not benefit from her privilege in this regard. The black parent has a better understanding of how these children will need to be constantly conscious of the image they are portraying. They will have to constantly be better behaved, more polite, and more respectful than the white kids, just to attempt to avoid the stereotypes and prejudice that will come their way.

Are you the person who posted the bolded part originally? Is that what you in fact meant? Do you think that a child calling his parents sir and ma'am will improve his lot in life in the outside world? How so? Honestly curious what the thinking is here.

I'm the one who originally said that, and then it was attacked so I figured I'm not even going to bother. The person who just defended it captured what I was getting at.

I don't make my kids say sir or ma'am, but if we lived in the South, I would. There are kids who will occasionally address me this way, and I definitely think very highly of them when they do so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's certainly not just a "slave thing." Plenty of parents do this, but it's more concentrated in the South.

I'd let him take the lead on this, because with biracial (black) kids, he knows better than you how to raise them to be respectful in society.

Massive inner eyeroll. In moments like this I pray comments like this are from trolls. I don't even know what this means.- Black blood is innately more respectful? Black blood only learns from black blood? Craziness.

I'm a northerner and I agree it's a little 'perpetuating oppression' for me to address parents in this way (slave master, etc).

It's fine for addressing others but in a family unit, we have no need for our multiracial kids to call us sir or ma'am.

You completely missed the point. OP has biracial kids, and when the world looks at them they will see black kids. They will not benefit from her privilege in this regard. The black parent has a better understanding of how these children will need to be constantly conscious of the image they are portraying. They will have to constantly be better behaved, more polite, and more respectful than the white kids, just to attempt to avoid the stereotypes and prejudice that will come their way.

Well when the world looks at my biracial kids, they see white kids. They're shocked when they find out my (black) husband is their bio father.

14:44 here. Perhaps I misunderstood the OP. I thought she was saying her DH wanted the children to address their parents with sir/ma'am. (I don't agree with doing this).
As a northerner, this is how we addressed all non family members- no problem with that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's certainly not just a "slave thing." Plenty of parents do this, but it's more concentrated in the South.

I'd let him take the lead on this, because with biracial (black) kids, he knows better than you how to raise them to be respectful in society.

Massive inner eyeroll. In moments like this I pray comments like this are from trolls. I don't even know what this means.- Black blood is innately more respectful? Black blood only learns from black blood? Craziness.

I'm a northerner and I agree it's a little 'perpetuating oppression' for me to address parents in this way (slave master, etc).

It's fine for addressing others but in a family unit, we have no need for our multiracial kids to call us sir or ma'am.

You completely missed the point. OP has biracial kids, and when the world looks at them they will see black kids. They will not benefit from her privilege in this regard. The black parent has a better understanding of how these children will need to be constantly conscious of the image they are portraying. They will have to constantly be better behaved, more polite, and more respectful than the white kids, just to attempt to avoid the stereotypes and prejudice that will come their way.

Are you the person who posted the bolded part originally? Is that what you in fact meant? Do you think that a child calling his parents sir and ma'am will improve his lot in life in the outside world? How so? Honestly curious what the thinking is here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Oh wow, I don't even know where to begin. Do you seriously not believe it is good for children to respect authority? Surely kids cannot be given authority over adults so how exactly do you define equality? Of course children deserve respect but that doesn't mean that they are on an equal playing field with adults. In fact, I make it a point to tell my kids they are not equal with adults. It doesn't mean they should be treated more poorly, it means that they do not have the authority to say and act however they want. So whether it's me, their teacher, their friend's parent, their babysitter, they need to respect that authority.

I recently moved to the South from DC and have heard a few kids say 'sir' and 'ma'am.' It's actually surprisingly really nice to hear. It just sounds like someone who has been raised with a lot of class and manners. We have so much of the opposite nowadays with parents treating their kids like friends (or 'equals'), and kids treating adults with zero respect. I say if it reinforces respect and courtesy, why not?

But it doesn't reinforce courtesy in this area, where people don't do it and don't want to get sirred/ma'amed. It's not courteous to call somebody something they don't want to be called.

And actually I don't think it does reinforce respect, anyway. When you call somebody sir or ma'am, does that cause you to feel more respect for them?

Well given some of the responses on here it does sound like some people do appreciate being sir'ed and ma'amed. Particularly if you are an older AA or someone from the south, I bet you would very much appreciate it. No, not every child has to say it but I certainly don't think it's going to offend anyone if OP's children say it. And if it does offend you, then you need to find some bigger problems.

Anonymous wrote:Ick. I grew up in a military family that tried to force this on me and it's gross. There is already a clear authority between parent and child, you do not need to add to it.

Ditto. Every time I said it, I was thinking "Fock you". Respect is earned.