Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are you from OP?

I am from Pakistan. We do not have a public school system to speak of but we do have some really well regarded private schools which are actually more rigorous than most American public schools and probably some privates. We also have solid medical and STEM colleges where students actually go to learn.

But it is a very small sliver of the population who gets to actually attend these schools. I have no doubt your education system is tops -- for the top people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you haven't been through an American University, you really can't judge.

I was hoping your post would talk about how they raise tuition to cover gyms, fancy dorms and amenities. I have only good things to say about the education I received though.

My children have and I have come to this conclusion having had conversations with them. So much money goes into "general ed" classes such as P.E. or Public Speaking 101. And you are correct, the students do NOt need fancy dormitories or state of the art laundry facilities or Gourmet cafeteria food. Excess at its worst.

What kind of university program requires P.E. classes? Really, I truly want to know. I was not required to take ANY P.E. classes in college, and the only person I know who WAS taking P.E. type courses in college was training to be a P.E. teacher. Tell us, OP, where did your children go to college and what programs did they complete?

W&M in the 80s required 4 semesters of PE.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you haven't been through an American University, you really can't judge.

I was hoping your post would talk about how they raise tuition to cover gyms, fancy dorms and amenities. I have only good things to say about the education I received though.

My children have and I have come to this conclusion having had conversations with them. So much money goes into "general ed" classes such as P.E. or Public Speaking 101. And you are correct, the students do NOt need fancy dormitories or state of the art laundry facilities or Gourmet cafeteria food. Excess at its worst.

What kind of university program requires P.E. classes? Really, I truly want to know. I was not required to take ANY P.E. classes in college, and the only person I know who WAS taking P.E. type courses in college was training to be a P.E. teacher. Tell us, OP, where did your children go to college and what programs did they complete?

In my school, P.E. was required for any student under the age of 25 who had not served in the military or did not have a medical exemption. There was a large selection of P.E. class choices: swimming, hiking, soccer, lacrosse, frisbee (really!), rugby, etc. I took trail hiking two summers in a row to get the requirement out of the way (we were allowed to repeat the same course for the requirement). I am not athletic and I'm not a fan of P.E., but like the other general ed classes, it helped me experience something outside of my comfort zone and I learned a lot about hiking in parks around Maryland. I also lost weight, so score!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm foreign-born as well. What boils my blood is that some (?) colleges require freshmen to live in dorms and pay through the nose for shitty food in the cafeteria. Really? College experience? Ugh.

+1. It's plain stupid. As is ending up with $100k+ in debt before you have any real work experience

You are more that welcome to attend commuter colleges. Solves all those problems.

True, except that most of those conmuter colleges are not top-notch quality, so you'd be better served attending any great public university in Canada or Europe, at very reasonable rates.

This has not been my experience at all. I went to a 4-year school that was 80% commuter and I came out extremely prepared to work in my field (computer science). I found a job immediately upon graduation at a high salary for an entry level position. I worked right along with other recent graduates from highly rated private schools earning exactly what I was earning (except I didn't have loans to pay). The trick to my success was making sure I earned job experience any chance I had over the summer and winter breaks. The school was instrumental in helping to place students in internships. That job experience before graduation is the true key to success, not the name of the school. Nobody cares if you drove to school or not.

What school did you go to? Sounds like you made a great choice!

This was at UMBC 20+ years ago, but most schools have an office devoted to placing students in internships and co-ops. That was one key to my success. The other key was choosing a vocational field. It's not so easy with philosophy or English literature. Yes, there are jobs in those fields but not enough to go around, so if someone you know finds himself drawn to those hard-to-find-work majors, make sure he doesn't take out a large loan to get the degree. He'll never be able to pay it off.

Thank you. Makes sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you haven't been through an American University, you really can't judge.

I was hoping your post would talk about how they raise tuition to cover gyms, fancy dorms and amenities. I have only good things to say about the education I received though.

My children have and I have come to this conclusion having had conversations with them. So much money goes into "general ed" classes such as P.E. or Public Speaking 101. And you are correct, the students do NOt need fancy dormitories or state of the art laundry facilities or Gourmet cafeteria food. Excess at its worst.

What kind of university program requires P.E. classes? Really, I truly want to know. I was not required to take ANY P.E. classes in college, and the only person I know who WAS taking P.E. type courses in college was training to be a P.E. teacher. Tell us, OP, where did your children go to college and what programs did they complete?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are you from OP?

I am from Pakistan. We do not have a public school system to speak of but we do have some really well regarded private schools which are actually more rigorous than most American public schools and probably some privates. We also have solid medical and STEM colleges where students actually go to learn.

I have two colleagues who used to teach at an International School in Pakistan. They left because of the hideous sexual harassment the wife and teenaged daughter experienced on a daily basis from random Pakistani men, everywhere they went. My colleagues have taught in International Schools in 8 different countries, and their experience of Pakistan and the education system in Pakistan is...different...from yours, OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm foreign-born as well. What boils my blood is that some (?) colleges require freshmen to live in dorms and pay through the nose for shitty food in the cafeteria. Really? College experience? Ugh.

+1. It's plain stupid. As is ending up with $100k+ in debt before you have any real work experience

You are more that welcome to attend commuter colleges. Solves all those problems.

True, except that most of those conmuter colleges are not top-notch quality, so you'd be better served attending any great public university in Canada or Europe, at very reasonable rates.

This has not been my experience at all. I went to a 4-year school that was 80% commuter and I came out extremely prepared to work in my field (computer science). I found a job immediately upon graduation at a high salary for an entry level position. I worked right along with other recent graduates from highly rated private schools earning exactly what I was earning (except I didn't have loans to pay). The trick to my success was making sure I earned job experience any chance I had over the summer and winter breaks. The school was instrumental in helping to place students in internships. That job experience before graduation is the true key to success, not the name of the school. Nobody cares if you drove to school or not.

What school did you go to? Sounds like you made a great choice!

This was at UMBC 20+ years ago, but most schools have an office devoted to placing students in internships and co-ops. That was one key to my success. The other key was choosing a vocational field. It's not so easy with philosophy or English literature. Yes, there are jobs in those fields but not enough to go around, so if someone you know finds himself drawn to those hard-to-find-work majors, make sure he doesn't take out a large loan to get the degree. He'll never be able to pay it off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm foreign-born as well. What boils my blood is that some (?) colleges require freshmen to live in dorms and pay through the nose for shitty food in the cafeteria. Really? College experience? Ugh.

+1. It's plain stupid. As is ending up with $100k+ in debt before you have any real work experience

You are more that welcome to attend commuter colleges. Solves all those problems.

True, except that most of those conmuter colleges are not top-notch quality, so you'd be better served attending any great public university in Canada or Europe, at very reasonable rates.

This has not been my experience at all. I went to a 4-year school that was 80% commuter and I came out extremely prepared to work in my field (computer science). I found a job immediately upon graduation at a high salary for an entry level position. I worked right along with other recent graduates from highly rated private schools earning exactly what I was earning (except I didn't have loans to pay). The trick to my success was making sure I earned job experience any chance I had over the summer and winter breaks. The school was instrumental in helping to place students in internships. That job experience before graduation is the true key to success, not the name of the school. Nobody cares if you drove to school or not.

What school did you go to? Sounds like you made a great choice!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If OP wants to hold up Pakistan as the educational model for the U.S., I'm not going to stop him. However, I will also conclude that he is very ignorant and hasn't attended a decent university himself.

This is OP.

I am not foolish enough to want to hold up Pakistani Education system as the model for the U.S. We are a poor nation with a lot of issues.

As an American, I have been through the American education system as have my children and as someone who is foreign born, I am able to objectively look at the way the American higher education system is a waste most of the time.

In America college is not an institution of higher education but an "experience" where 18 year olds go into so they can play and party and socialize on their parents' dime for 4 years. Most of the curriculum for the first two years is overpriced if not downright unecessary. Students spend the first 2 years finishing up various "general ed" requirements. In a sesmester, a student takes 2 or 3 major courses and the rest of it is overpriced fluff. Classes end at around 11 am to 5pm per day. For the rest of the day the student goes and sleeps in his overpriced dormitory and then goes and partakes in unnecessary social rituals such as greek life. There are parties full of underage drinking almost every night. Some children get hurt.

So students live in this strange bubble for 4 years and then graduate with 100k in debt or more. Why can't they just take classes and live amonsgt normal people instead of being on a "campus" for 4 years?

The whole system is designed in a strange way.

The system you describe wasn't "designed" at all. Sure, plenty of wealthy families along with people who pretend to be wealthy are convinced they need go to overpriced schools and earn useless liberal arts degrees which do not relate to any career that allows a person to earn a living. Spoiled kids party every night, don't study, and earn poor grades. Then they complain that they can't find a job to pay off their loans. This is the result of very poor planning and counseling. It is not a guaranteed outcome.

Nobody said you had to go to a private university that costs $50,000 per year in tuition. In-state universities are very good and thousands of students come out ready for a career or post-graduate education (such as medical school which is clearly your goal for your children). You may even find you live within driving distance so your children don't have to live in the dormitories (which are expensive and hardly luxurious). Half of the students attending the University of Maryland Medical School received their undergraduate degrees from the University of Maryland.

OP here.

Many of the families we know in Northern Virgina who come from Iran and Pakistan seen their children to George Mason University. Unlike other colleges this is mostly a commuter school with a significant population of its students living at home with their parents and or in off campus apartment. They also usually hold jobs and are some of the best student I have met. They're well rounded fully functioning adults who live in the real world and go on to get great first jobs in Accounting and Finance upon graduation.

You mean like the ones who hang out in clubs, drive fast cars and get into car accidents?

GMU kids are great. Most hold some type of a part time job and live at home with their wealthy Persian family and are fully immersed in the DMV life. They graduate as fully functioning adults already integrated into the NOVA culture compared to a lot of sheletered Sorority girls from other colleges who can't start a sentence without playing with their blonde hair and saying tons of "likes" between words.

This is one of the saddest and most pathetic statements I've seen on DCUM. OP - you are actually trying to make an argument using an old and tired stereotype. Only those who have a lack of analytical and critical thinking skills believe that they are "winning" an argument with this type debate. If I were a Pakistani woman I would be ashamed to call you a fellow countryman. Don't think it's not noticed that your need to put others down in order to make yourself feel better includes a deeply misogynistic message about blonde women. As a PP pointed out you are probably bitter because your kids (or you) were rejected from a better known university. Although GMU is a fine school and has gained a better reputation in recent years it still has a long way to go to be in the same rankings as some of the other universities to which I'm sure you're referring.

Also, you'll need to wrap your head around the concept of different cultures. The American college culture is one which includes living on campus for many. There is a reason for this which not only includes the life-long lessons of becoming an independent and learning about yourself and others, but also a majority of Americans attend their state, public university which is usually not in their town. They would have to travel too far to commute so they live on campus. It's a time in life which an American kid becomes an adult because they are forced to take care of themselves.

And trust me, no one can call themselves a "fully functioning" adult as long as they are living with mommy and daddy and having everything paid for them and taken care of them. I've actually known plenty of these GMU students and their wealthy Persian families...they are NOT fully functioning adults! Mommy does their laundry and prepares meals while they go out and party. They may not be on a campus doing it, but the are partying non the less.

Educate yourself and evaluate your need to put others down in order to make yourself feel better!

It's clear that the only allowable path for OP's children is a medical degree. OP complains that every single class a student takes must be related to that degree. OP, did you even ask your children what they want to study? If they don't understand the curriculum and path to become a doctor, then they probably weren't meant to be in the medical field. Yes, you need a college degree before attending medical school, and most who apply are not accepted. It's a very difficult field of study strictly meant for those who really want to be there.

Anonymous wrote:The longer I observe the American college system, the more I am confused by it. In America, an average college major requires you to take 10-12 classes. You get 4 years to complete them. It takes 2 years tops to complete those courses and the other two years are usually squandered away by students because college here is a 4 year vacation paid for by mommy and daddy. Most schools do not really provide much academic rigor and are just easy diploma factories. Also, whats up with the "college experience?" What does that even mean? You go to school to specialize in a field so you can get your degree and join the workforce.

Don't even get me started on the medical education system here. A student takes 4 classes in undergrad to qualify as "premed" and then spends another 4 years getting a medical degree. Most other countries have medical colleges where students get MDs after graduating college!

LOL. OP, I am American, and I can understand your perspective, but this particular thought made me chuckle because it is so grim and sounds so utterly joyless.

Yes, we all must be practical, but I'd prefer to associate with a citizenry (and have a doctors) who have had the time and freedom to do things beyond the scope of what will eventually probably be their work. Shall no one draw but those who intend to be professional artists? Should foreign language study be restricted to those who will one day be recompensed for their knowledge? Do you want me to not get you started on things like student newspapers (if you don't plan to become a professional journalist, stop wasting your time!), sports clubs (who is paying for this? you're no Olympian!), and volunteer work (hogwash! your parents didn't pay good college money for you to be wasting valuable study time tutoring troubled elementary school students!).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm foreign-born as well. What boils my blood is that some (?) colleges require freshmen to live in dorms and pay through the nose for shitty food in the cafeteria. Really? College experience? Ugh.

+1. It's plain stupid. As is ending up with $100k+ in debt before you have any real work experience

You are more that welcome to attend commuter colleges. Solves all those problems.

True, except that most of those conmuter colleges are not top-notch quality, so you'd be better served attending any great public university in Canada or Europe, at very reasonable rates.

This has not been my experience at all. I went to a 4-year school that was 80% commuter and I came out extremely prepared to work in my field (computer science). I found a job immediately upon graduation at a high salary for an entry level position. I worked right along with other recent graduates from highly rated private schools earning exactly what I was earning (except I didn't have loans to pay). The trick to my success was making sure I earned job experience any chance I had over the summer and winter breaks. The school was instrumental in helping to place students in internships. That job experience before graduation is the true key to success, not the name of the school. Nobody cares if you drove to school or not.

With all due respect OP you are from Pakistan, those in glass houses should not throw stones. Yes there may be many flaws in our system but there is equally a reason that throngs about the world including from your country dream and aspire to be educated here.

Do you really want me to start talking about the education system in Pakistan? I didn't' think so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If OP wants to hold up Pakistan as the educational model for the U.S., I'm not going to stop him. However, I will also conclude that he is very ignorant and hasn't attended a decent university himself.

This is OP.

I am not foolish enough to want to hold up Pakistani Education system as the model for the U.S. We are a poor nation with a lot of issues.

As an American, I have been through the American education system as have my children and as someone who is foreign born, I am able to objectively look at the way the American higher education system is a waste most of the time.

In America college is not an institution of higher education but an "experience" where 18 year olds go into so they can play and party and socialize on their parents' dime for 4 years. Most of the curriculum for the first two years is overpriced if not downright unecessary. Students spend the first 2 years finishing up various "general ed" requirements. In a sesmester, a student takes 2 or 3 major courses and the rest of it is overpriced fluff. Classes end at around 11 am to 5pm per day. For the rest of the day the student goes and sleeps in his overpriced dormitory and then goes and partakes in unnecessary social rituals such as greek life. There are parties full of underage drinking almost every night. Some children get hurt.

So students live in this strange bubble for 4 years and then graduate with 100k in debt or more. Why can't they just take classes and live amonsgt normal people instead of being on a "campus" for 4 years?

The whole system is designed in a strange way.

The system you describe wasn't "designed" at all. Sure, plenty of wealthy families along with people who pretend to be wealthy are convinced they need go to overpriced schools and earn useless liberal arts degrees which do not relate to any career that allows a person to earn a living. Spoiled kids party every night, don't study, and earn poor grades. Then they complain that they can't find a job to pay off their loans. This is the result of very poor planning and counseling. It is not a guaranteed outcome.

Nobody said you had to go to a private university that costs $50,000 per year in tuition. In-state universities are very good and thousands of students come out ready for a career or post-graduate education (such as medical school which is clearly your goal for your children). You may even find you live within driving distance so your children don't have to live in the dormitories (which are expensive and hardly luxurious). Half of the students attending the University of Maryland Medical School received their undergraduate degrees from the University of Maryland.

OP here.

Many of the families we know in Northern Virgina who come from Iran and Pakistan seen their children to George Mason University. Unlike other colleges this is mostly a commuter school with a significant population of its students living at home with their parents and or in off campus apartment. They also usually hold jobs and are some of the best student I have met. They're well rounded fully functioning adults who live in the real world and go on to get great first jobs in Accounting and Finance upon graduation.

You mean like the ones who hang out in clubs, drive fast cars and get into car accidents?

GMU kids are great. Most hold some type of a part time job and live at home with their wealthy Persian family and are fully immersed in the DMV life. They graduate as fully functioning adults already integrated into the NOVA culture compared to a lot of sheletered Sorority girls from other colleges who can't start a sentence without playing with their blonde hair and saying tons of "likes" between words.

I can't believe it took me 3 pages to catch onto the fact that OP's kid was rejected by all of the Iveys + UVA, W&M and VA Tech (Engineering) and OP is having to come to terms with the humiliation of putting a GMU sticker on the Beemer.

Bwahahaha. I guess the "NOVA culture" means waiting tables at a kabob joint.

Um... college is the BEST. I would love to do that all over again. OP, if you had gone to college here I guarantee you wouldn't be so ridiculously uptight.