Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish, DH is an atheist, and DS is Jewish. We went to our neighbors' house for dinner the other night. They're very proud Christians, who hold bible study in their home once a month. They know we're not Christian.

The wife asked if we minded if she said a blessing over dinner before we ate, and we...

...said no, of course not. Including DH, who is outspoken (to people who agree with him) in his belief that religion is stupid. We all bowed our heads, she said a lovely thank you prayer, and we started to eat. When DS asked why we put our heads down, we explained that she was giving thanks and that we wanted to focus on her words, and not be distracted by anything else.

I'll admit, I was a little worried that there would be conversion talk. But there was nothing of the sort, and we had an awesome time.

Anonymous wrote:It's tradition to pray over a meal. You know this, and just feel like ignoring it, so the rest of your post has no validity.

Anonymous wrote:By the way, I never said we were Christian. Again, you assume something to make your anti-Christian argument. It's tiring.

Anonymous wrote:Check your religious privilege.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What is wrong with you religious types huddling for a pre-meal prayer in the foyer or the den? Why do the non believers have to stay away from the table until the believers have their way first?

This sounds like a reasonable compromise. Why not be respectful of your SIL's beliefs?

Except the pre-meal prayer is traditionally a blessing OVER THE FOOD, not the living room tv set or the cute hedgehog boot brush by the front door.

Why not in the kitchen then, before the food is put on the table?

OP - you are creating a false dichotomy and demanding that your beliefs (and your IL's beliefs) be given privilege over your SIL's beliefs whenever you feel there is a conflict. You don't have an objective basis on which to demand that, though I get it would make life more pleasant for you if she wasn't around or was silent about her beliefs and deferred to yours.

It's really simple to understand: she may be every bit as offended by the presumption that she will bow her head and remain silent while you (all) get to parade your Christianity openly as you are offended by her saying belief in a supernatural trinity is ridiculous. You are asking her to be respectful of something she believes is ridiculous.

I am curious: have you ever had a meal in the house of someone with non-Christian beliefs, say, Islam? Or perhaps Hindu? Both of those religions have a form of "Grace" prayer. How do you feel about participating in a Hindu prayer and remaining silent about your Christianity?

The fact that your ILs (parents) have a slightly different Christian theology/faith than you is not the same as being forced (by social pressure) to participate in something you feel is ridiculous.

Your SIL is still being a bit of an ass - the correct answer (in terms of good breeding and manners) is to be respectful of your host's beliefs and keep your mouth shut, and if you really feel their beliefs are dangerous and threatening (ie, you need to warn your kids about them) you simply don't go to their house as a guest. This also isn't a fight between atheism and religion, different religions or even different theologies between denominations; this is about one person behaving insultingly towards others. If you can't handle her, next time you get an invite, you simply decline and don't go. Your husband (or whoever) needs to let her know she's being insulting and to knock it off (this doesn't include the FB postings).

These things get resolved in rather Solomonic fashion: either your ILs will let you opt out, or they'll tell her to knock it off (or un-invite her) - but either way, the drama queen will be the person excluded.

It's tradition to pray over a meal. You know this, and just feel like ignoring it, so the rest of your post has no validity.

By the way, I never said we were Christian. Again, you assume something to make your anti-Christian argument. It's tiring.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What is wrong with you religious types huddling for a pre-meal prayer in the foyer or the den? Why do the non believers have to stay away from the table until the believers have their way first?

This sounds like a reasonable compromise. Why not be respectful of your SIL's beliefs?

Except the pre-meal prayer is traditionally a blessing OVER THE FOOD, not the living room tv set or the cute hedgehog boot brush by the front door.

Why not in the kitchen then, before the food is put on the table?

OP - you are creating a false dichotomy and demanding that your beliefs (and your IL's beliefs) be given privilege over your SIL's beliefs whenever you feel there is a conflict. You don't have an objective basis on which to demand that, though I get it would make life more pleasant for you if she wasn't around or was silent about her beliefs and deferred to yours.

It's really simple to understand: she may be every bit as offended by the presumption that she will bow her head and remain silent while you (all) get to parade your Christianity openly as you are offended by her saying belief in a supernatural trinity is ridiculous. You are asking her to be respectful of something she believes is ridiculous.

I am curious: have you ever had a meal in the house of someone with non-Christian beliefs, say, Islam? Or perhaps Hindu? Both of those religions have a form of "Grace" prayer. How do you feel about participating in a Hindu prayer and remaining silent about your Christianity?

The fact that your ILs (parents) have a slightly different Christian theology/faith than you is not the same as being forced (by social pressure) to participate in something you feel is ridiculous.

Your SIL is still being a bit of an ass - the correct answer (in terms of good breeding and manners) is to be respectful of your host's beliefs and keep your mouth shut, and if you really feel their beliefs are dangerous and threatening (ie, you need to warn your kids about them) you simply don't go to their house as a guest. This also isn't a fight between atheism and religion, different religions or even different theologies between denominations; this is about one person behaving insultingly towards others. If you can't handle her, next time you get an invite, you simply decline and don't go. Your husband (or whoever) needs to let her know she's being insulting and to knock it off (this doesn't include the FB postings).

These things get resolved in rather Solomonic fashion: either your ILs will let you opt out, or they'll tell her to knock it off (or un-invite her) - but either way, the drama queen will be the person excluded.

Anonymous wrote:My Jewish XH went through 4 Catholic SOs, including myself before he finally found his voice to demand his atheist brother and brother in law use civil language when discussing Catholicism. The turning point was how truly upset their comments were making our DD. He had to make it clear that they could criticize the Church, but needed to stop using inflammatory language such as anti-Catholic slurs and stop making blanket statements accusing all priests of pedophilia, etc. Interestingly, they have little to say about Catholicism anymore (according to XH's current fiance --another Catholic).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What is wrong with you religious types huddling for a pre-meal prayer in the foyer or the den? Why do the non believers have to stay away from the table until the believers have their way first?

This sounds like a reasonable compromise. Why not be respectful of your SIL's beliefs?

Except the pre-meal prayer is traditionally a blessing OVER THE FOOD, not the living room tv set or the cute hedgehog boot brush by the front door.

Anonymous wrote:

What is wrong with you religious types huddling for a pre-meal prayer in the foyer or the den? Why do the non believers have to stay away from the table until the believers have their way first?

This sounds like a reasonable compromise. Why not be respectful of your SIL's beliefs?

What is wrong with you religious types huddling for a pre-meal prayer in the foyer or the den? Why do the non believers have to stay away from the table until the believers have their way first?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. What's wrong with simply arriving at the table after the blessing is said? That's what I'd do - and I am of a slightly different religion than IL's, so some things they say I internally shake my head over, but I would NEVER say something about it.

Also, there's a big difference between posting about your own faith on FB and constantly criticizing another one (I personally don't do either). Just so we're clear, her posts aren't the "thank the goddess for this beautiful day" kind, they're the "fucking dumbass <insert faith here> are assholes" kind of posts.

....and this is where you would be wrong, and applying a double standard.

You need to learn to recognize that promoting and celebrating your faith is every bit as annoying to people who don't believe as you do as having to listen to someone promoting the idea that all belief in the supernatural (faith) is stupid. There is no difference.

It would be different if either of you could prove some factual basis for your belief, but since you can neither prove a deity exists, nor can the atheist prove a deity does not exist, you are both spouting off your opinion.

What is wrong with you religious types huddling for a pre-meal prayer in the foyer or the den? Why do the non believers have to stay away from the table until the believers have their way first?

This can be endlessly flipped around...yes, SIL should internally shake her (unbowed) head, skip saying "Amen", but she's not obligated to give special preference to your belief while she pretends hers doesn't exist and makes her atheism invisible to you. This is particularly true if you're talking about something in your ILs house - your story keeps changing...is this in YOUR house? or your ILs house? If the latter, it's not even your place to be offended by her overt atheism, particularly if you're bragging about your religiosity.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. What's wrong with simply arriving at the table after the blessing is said? That's what I'd do - and I am of a slightly different religion than IL's, so some things they say I internally shake my head over, but I would NEVER say something about it.

Also, there's a big difference between posting about your own faith on FB and constantly criticizing another one (I personally don't do either). Just so we're clear, her posts aren't the "thank the goddess for this beautiful day" kind, they're the "fucking dumbass <insert faith here> are assholes" kind of posts.