Anonymous wrote:

What was the staff for, if mom was doing all the work?
Your mother's generation is pretty different from what I see now--which is that most of the partners at DH's firm have spouses who are also professionals and who do not SAH. Some might work part-time, but most are also practicing attorneys, quite a few physicians, a handful of professors, some who work for major not-for-profits, etc. We are able to do this while our spouses manage to make partner. While it is true that these professions are generally more flexible that biglaw, they are unmistakably professional careers. I think it's a matter of being efficient with time, using household help strategically, and very importantly, having a spouse who works in biglaw who is genuinely committed to spending time with his family. If you have a SAH spouse who is not efficient or have a lawyer spouse who can't figure out how to schedule a calendar to make time for family, then you probably do need a SAH. This is especially true once you have kids who are all in school full-time, then SAH is nice, but definitely not necessary.

Ahhhh. Let the blame-casting begin. First blame SAHM for being too lazy -- why does she need any help if she is SAHM? Answer -- my mom scrubbed plenty of toilets and did endless loads of laundry, but she didn't also mow the lawn, trim the trees, fix the leaky toilet, or renovate the house nor was she able to be in 3 separate locations with her 3 different kids. She used other staff for that. And, let me tell you, she was plenty organized. The woman could run logistics for the US Army. And, BTW, even when we were old enough to be in school full-time, her 3 kids still had plenty of sick days, school holidays, etc. between them.

If it doesn't work to blame the woman, then we must blame the man. He doesn't care enough about family, so he chooses to spend all that time at work because he doesn't want to be at home. The idea that professional attorneys (or other professionals) can schedule their time to include family may be true for some practice areas but is not true for all, just like some dermatologists have more control of their practice hours than say cardiac surgeons. The reality is that Dad founded his own highly successful boutique law firm after leaving a high level political appointment. He was responsible for making sure dozens of other people stayed employed, so you can bet that he allowed himself to be at the beck and call of clients globally. Then dad merged his firm with another BigLaw firm. Also, still at clients' beck and call around the world. My husband also works internationally and sometimes gets just 3 days notice to be away for 6 weeks. We all make choices about what we do, and some of us still work at careers that don't combine well with kids, so one person opts to stay home.

Please, I accept that some women manage to combine good careers with raising kids, and they have all kinds of creative ways of doing so. Why is the SAHM and H of the SAHM still looked down upon? SAHM is stereotyped as lazy or unorganized. H of SAHM is also stereotyped as unorganized and uncaring about his family. Until we value the unpaid work of raising children, maintaining the household and maintaining family ties, no matter which sex is doing it, we are never going to have true partnership and equality.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a young guy, and I want to date( and eventually marry) a girl who would be willing to be a homemaker. Where can I find girls like this? Are there any dating sites for this kind of thing?

Isn't this something you'd put in your profile? "Looking for a partner in life who wants to build a family" might be a good start, then take it from there. Maybe mention looking for someone "traditional"? I dunno. You'll work on the language. Check in on her background on early dates. If she comes from a culture where lots of mom SAH, that can be an entry point for the discussion. If she's from a family where someone stayed at home with the children, you'll find common ground there. On JDate, there seemed to be a bit of these hints around the site. Men and women would reference family dinners and holidays. It gave anyone reading some insight into they type anyone was looking to date.

It would seem that online dating would make this pretty simple, OP.

The questions that would be more helpful for you to answer all center around what else you may be looking for in a partner. Is education a priority? If so, there's nothing wrong with asking about a woman's plans for after she has children. "Do you see yourself taking time away from your career?" That doesn't seem too off-putting. You would be better off looking for a whole woman, not just someone who desires to be a SAHM. I always had "French-speaker" on my silly list for the ideal partner. Turned out he was pretty terrible in a lot of other (far more meaningful) categories. I suggest you spare yourself the same experience (divorce).


Do you want someone community-minded, "church-y," athletic? Each of these is easily screened for online.

Good luck to you!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with PP about causation. All four stay at home mothers in my friend group did so because there was no way to handle two or three kids when their spouses were traveling and working crazy hours at very high-paying jobs. One is in and out of the work force when she can find interesting part-time contracting gigs.

One is planning to go back to work as soon as kids are more independent (late middle school) and two others have been talking to me about how down they have been feeling lately, with late ES/ MS kids and their careers in the rear view. They're getting annoyed when their kids ask them what they do all day.

I think when you hear from women with small kids you'll get a different take on all of this than parents of older kids. The down side of staying at home is more apparent when you're in your 40s, would like to be using your degree and interacting with adults, and the work force has left you behind.

FWIW Nobody I know from my law school class (HLS 1998) is staying at home. Most of my friends work at something we really love. When I win power ball this week I'm still going to work.

I graduated from law school in 1999, but when my youngest showed signs of ASD, I chose to stay at home to manage his therapies and after care myself while raising my other two kids.

It's not for everyone, and I know that I'm not the only lawyer who does this with every intention of reentering the profession.

I've posted this before, but it's worth posting again: "The Lawyers at Home Committee advances the interests of lawyers who have presently turned all, or a significant portion of their attention, from career to family. This committee holds monthly meetings and reaches out to lawyers at home and those with part-time or home-based practices."
from the Women's Bar Association of DC's website: http://www.wbadc.org/committees_forums#Lawyers_at_Home_Forum

The truth is that a law degree is so portable that there are established -- although not conventional partner track -- ways for women to reenter the profession after staying at home for a while.

Wow! Thanks for this tip PP. I am a lawyer and had thought after staying home so long that my law degree had become useless.

I have a Harvard law friend who did the same thing you want OP. He met a nice waitress...great girl.. But, if you want someone who has always wanted to not have a job or a career, you will probably get someone who maybe didn't do as well in school. My friend's kids aren't that smart.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with PP about causation. All four stay at home mothers in my friend group did so because there was no way to handle two or three kids when their spouses were traveling and working crazy hours at very high-paying jobs. One is in and out of the work force when she can find interesting part-time contracting gigs.

One is planning to go back to work as soon as kids are more independent (late middle school) and two others have been talking to me about how down they have been feeling lately, with late ES/ MS kids and their careers in the rear view. They're getting annoyed when their kids ask them what they do all day.

I think when you hear from women with small kids you'll get a different take on all of this than parents of older kids. The down side of staying at home is more apparent when you're in your 40s, would like to be using your degree and interacting with adults, and the work force has left you behind.

FWIW Nobody I know from my law school class (HLS 1998) is staying at home. Most of my friends work at something we really love. When I win power ball this week I'm still going to work.

I call B.S. I've got friends with high paying jobs and they hire help. Their nanny runs them about 60K per year. She does all the kids stuff. drop off, pick up, wash, etc. My friends have a much more relaxed lifestyle than my husband and I. I SAH and he works. We don't have a nanny so we have to do all of the stuff my friends nanny does + work. A woman who has a high salary and wants to stay home uses her husbands work schedule as an excuse for why she doesn't want to work but the bottom line is that she doesn't want to work so she isn't. If she wanted to she would work and find a way to get it done.

A new poster here. I know at least four SAHMs from the HLS class of 1996 so we may just be familiar with different groups. In fact, the governing board at our children's school has at least 3 SAHMs with degrees from Harvard.

None of us has more than 24 hours in a day, and we choose to dedicate different amounts of time to different activities. Yes, I feed my kids and they manage to get to their activities. But, my SAHM friends have more time to connect with their kids rather than having a nanny/babysitter/carpool do the driving to activities, and they also connect more with their kids (and cook more with their kids) because they are home. For families with 3-4 kids, I see a particularly big difference in general coordination and management when they have a SAHM (or a close relative living nearby providing significant assistance). I am a WOHM, and was a SAHM for a few years. I can see the difference that that the time and effort my SAHM dedicate to their families makes. And for those who say "it can be done" through lots of outsourcing, of course it can with enough money. But, that degree of outsourcing of family life is not what many families want for themselves or their kids.

Why all this back and forth about whether people should sah? OP wants a wife to sah. As long as he finds someone who also wants that, what business is it of ours to chime in? He just wants to know where to find one.

OP, you can change your mind and your future wife can change her mind. Youth has no way of knowing what Life will make you do!

I'm a stay at home mother. I never wanted a career, even though I loved grad school and volunteer in an organization where my experience and background is useful. I am very happy looking after my home, my kids, and my little side job (unpaid).

Meet people. Find intelligent, caring ones who place a high value on family. This is really the most important thing you two need to have in common.

And who knows? You might find that your wife's job outside the home in no way interferes with taking care of the home and raising children. Perhaps your wife's job will enhance the rest! Perhaps you will find that you are a good fit for a stay-at-home Dad Whatever the future holds for you, you have to learn to adapt and be flexible. And be careful what you wish for...

Anonymous wrote:This is a very sad thread! Nothing wrong with being a homemaker but I hope you are looking for more in a person than a new Mom for you!

I don't think the pushback is against stay at home moms. I would react the same way if OP's post was, 'where to find girls who want to be successful.'

It's a silly question. Humans are different and their feelings about life and what makes them happy evolve over time. To ask where he can find a girl that meets his expectations kind of presumes that like, 'well if you go to church you'll find good christian women who want to stay home and raise your children' and 'if you go to a bar you'll find ambitious cut throat ladies who will wear the pants in the relationship.'

It's like talking about a caricature rather than a real human.

There's a really nice farm down in North Carolina where you can pick one out

Anonymous wrote:Play the powerball.

Date a teacher or daycare employee. Stereo-typically they have lower wages and love children.

Play the powerball.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are getting a lot of unfair comments. My wife is a SAHM. A lot of women become SAHMs without knowing it is a choice they would make when they are single. My DW is a lawyer, so she has earning power.

The number 1 factor is YOUR income. You need to make a lot of money so your future wife's decision whether SHE wants to stay home is made without regard to money.

+ 1.

Most women want to stay home but can't because their spouses do not earn enough.

Ooh, please link to the source for your statement that "most women want to stay home." I'd love to see it!

Check out the stats on SAHMs. It is U shaped which means it goes up tremendously once the person with a job starts making a lot of money (say, 500k +). Rich wives have always opted to do their own thing when they can. Some have "hobby" careers, like a little boutique, but they don't expect it to make any money. Some volunteer extensively.

Thanks for looking at SAHMing so cynically. My dad was a big law partner. My mom SAHMd. She made his career earning lots of money possible. She wasn't laying around eating bon bons. She was busy taking us to schools, sports, monitoring homework, taking us to medical appointments, showing up for our events, hosting parties and playdates for us, paying bills, doing all the grocery shopping, meal planning, meal making, meal clean up, supervision of all household staff, maintenance of all family relationships, and being caretaker of all when my Dad traveled for work, hosting business associates, etc. My mom worked as hard as my dad for his Big Law salary. He never would have been able to put in the high number of billable hours required for Big Law partnership if my Mom hadn't been picking up the slack. She's never been able to "do her own thing" unless she squeezed it into the little time she had when she wasn't serving her husband or kids.

Your mother did exactly what my mother did and my wife does, both of whom had full-time careers.

I also do every one of those things (maintenance of family relationships - talk about a stretch - LOL) and I work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are getting a lot of unfair comments. My wife is a SAHM. A lot of women become SAHMs without knowing it is a choice they would make when they are single. My DW is a lawyer, so she has earning power.

The number 1 factor is YOUR income. You need to make a lot of money so your future wife's decision whether SHE wants to stay home is made without regard to money.

+ 1.

Most women want to stay home but can't because their spouses do not earn enough.

Ooh, please link to the source for your statement that "most women want to stay home." I'd love to see it!

Check out the stats on SAHMs. It is U shaped which means it goes up tremendously once the person with a job starts making a lot of money (say, 500k +). Rich wives have always opted to do their own thing when they can. Some have "hobby" careers, like a little boutique, but they don't expect it to make any money. Some volunteer extensively.

Thanks for looking at SAHMing so cynically. My dad was a big law partner. My mom SAHMd. She made his career earning lots of money possible. She wasn't laying around eating bon bons. She was busy taking us to schools, sports, monitoring homework, taking us to medical appointments, showing up for our events, hosting parties and playdates for us, paying bills, doing all the grocery shopping, meal planning, meal making, meal clean up, supervision of all household staff, maintenance of all family relationships, and being caretaker of all when my Dad traveled for work, hosting business associates, etc. My mom worked as hard as my dad for his Big Law salary. He never would have been able to put in the high number of billable hours required for Big Law partnership if my Mom hadn't been picking up the slack. She's never been able to "do her own thing" unless she squeezed it into the little time she had when she wasn't serving her husband or kids.

Your mother did exactly what my mother did and my wife does, both of whom had full-time careers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are getting a lot of unfair comments. My wife is a SAHM. A lot of women become SAHMs without knowing it is a choice they would make when they are single. My DW is a lawyer, so she has earning power.

The number 1 factor is YOUR income. You need to make a lot of money so your future wife's decision whether SHE wants to stay home is made without regard to money.

+ 1.

Most women want to stay home but can't because their spouses do not earn enough.

Ooh, please link to the source for your statement that "most women want to stay home." I'd love to see it!

Check out the stats on SAHMs. It is U shaped which means it goes up tremendously once the person with a job starts making a lot of money (say, 500k +). Rich wives have always opted to do their own thing when they can. Some have "hobby" careers, like a little boutique, but they don't expect it to make any money. Some volunteer extensively.

Thanks for looking at SAHMing so cynically. My dad was a big law partner. My mom SAHMd. She made his career earning lots of money possible. She wasn't laying around eating bon bons. She was busy taking us to schools, sports, monitoring homework, taking us to medical appointments, showing up for our events, hosting parties and playdates for us, paying bills, doing all the grocery shopping, meal planning, meal making, meal clean up, supervision of all household staff, maintenance of all family relationships, and being caretaker of all when my Dad traveled for work, hosting business associates, etc. My mom worked as hard as my dad for his Big Law salary. He never would have been able to put in the high number of billable hours required for Big Law partnership if my Mom hadn't been picking up the slack. She's never been able to "do her own thing" unless she squeezed it into the little time she had when she wasn't serving her husband or kids.

What was the staff for, if mom was doing all the work?
Your mother's generation is pretty different from what I see now--which is that most of the partners at DH's firm have spouses who are also professionals and who do not SAH. Some might work part-time, but most are also practicing attorneys, quite a few physicians, a handful of professors, some who work for major not-for-profits, etc. We are able to do this while our spouses manage to make partner. While it is true that these professions are generally more flexible that biglaw, they are unmistakably professional careers. I think it's a matter of being efficient with time, using household help strategically, and very importantly, having a spouse who works in biglaw who is genuinely committed to spending time with his family. If you have a SAH spouse who is not efficient or have a lawyer spouse who can't figure out how to schedule a calendar to make time for family, then you probably do need a SAH. This is especially true once you have kids who are all in school full-time, then SAH is nice, but definitely not necessary.