Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Won't happen because the racial makeup wouldn't match the city.

But it would match the country. We don't live in Nigeria, despite of what some folks seem to think.

And we don't live in Wyoming or Idaho either, despite what some folks seem to think.

Correct. We live in the capital of a country called the USA, despite what some folks seem to think.

Demographics of said country: 64% white, 16% Latino, 12% black, 4% Asian.

Exactly, you just made my point, those are not the demographics of D.C... get some of those folks to move into D.C. and pay taxes. Then we can start talking.

Actually, the time to start talking is now, because I'm sure blacks account for less than 50% of the taxpayers in the city. Do you know of a way to check the racial breakdown of people paying property tax or income tax -- the source of school funding?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Won't happen because the racial makeup wouldn't match the city.

But it would match the country. We don't live in Nigeria, despite of what some folks seem to think.

And we don't live in Wyoming or Idaho either, despite what some folks seem to think.

Correct. We live in the capital of a country called the USA, despite what some folks seem to think.

Demographics of said country: 64% white, 16% Latino, 12% black, 4% Asian.

Exactly, you just made my point, those are not the demographics of D.C... get some of those folks to move into D.C. and pay taxes. Then we can start talking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This topic keeps coming up because people refuse to look at the history and see just how bad DCPS fucked up "tracking" for several generations before home rule. Now, the people who were the victims of that situation have enough political clout to keep it from coming back, even though the "solution" is no solution at all.

http://usedulaw.com/333-hobson-v-hansen.html

This is really helpful cite. It appears that the court did not find tracking objectional but instead found that the process for placing the kids in the various tracks was. Kids were placed based soley on one aptitude test, and the court found that the test was biased. If that is the case, I don't see why DCPS could not institute this again but using a more equitable method of placement.

Agreed, thank you PP for the useful link.

it seems that the judge mostly objected to:
"Once assigned, students had virtually no opportunity to switch tracks."
"...the tests were not actually measuring ability because they were biased in such a way that poor, Black children would inevitably earn lower scores and, as a result, lower track placements. Thus, children were being assigned to tracks based not on ability, but on status."

Neither of which apply to current gifted programs. So, while it certainly helps to understand the past connotations of the word "tracking," that is a mere distraction from the conversation about best approaches to gifted education

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This topic keeps coming up because people refuse to look at the history and see just how bad DCPS fucked up "tracking" for several generations before home rule. Now, the people who were the victims of that situation have enough political clout to keep it from coming back, even though the "solution" is no solution at all.

You mean, the (mostly white) families who had to leave the city because of the (mostly black) crime?

We can talk decades-old history, or we can talk current problems and solutions

Those (mostly white) families left after Brown mainly because they didn't want their children to share classrooms with black children.

Not so different from today, although certain black children are acceptable if they come from high SES families or are willing to learn Mandarin.

Spare us this god awful BS. Ignore the miserable, hackneyed race-baiting everybody. We're too far into this century to tolerate it.

DCPS' refusal to give schools a fighting chance to differentiate effectively obviously motivates high SES, and other strongly education-minded parents, of all stripes to amalgamate around certain schools. I've seen how low and moderate income black kids (including recent immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean) who can keep up with run-of-the-mill high SES kids, or even move ahead of them academically, are embraced with open arms in schools.

DC isn't a racist town, it's one without many high performing public schools.

Right, everyone please calm down. Didn't you know? Racism's gone! Over! Whew, thanks, PP. I feel a lot better now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This topic keeps coming up because people refuse to look at the history and see just how bad DCPS fucked up "tracking" for several generations before home rule. Now, the people who were the victims of that situation have enough political clout to keep it from coming back, even though the "solution" is no solution at all.

http://usedulaw.com/333-hobson-v-hansen.html

This is really helpful cite. It appears that the court did not find tracking objectional but instead found that the process for placing the kids in the various tracks was. Kids were placed based soley on one aptitude test, and the court found that the test was biased. If that is the case, I don't see why DCPS could not institute this again but using a more equitable method of placement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This topic keeps coming up because people refuse to look at the history and see just how bad DCPS fucked up "tracking" for several generations before home rule. Now, the people who were the victims of that situation have enough political clout to keep it from coming back, even though the "solution" is no solution at all.

You mean, the (mostly white) families who had to leave the city because of the (mostly black) crime?

We can talk decades-old history, or we can talk current problems and solutions

Those (mostly white) families left after Brown mainly because they didn't want their children to share classrooms with black children.

Not so different from today, although certain black children are acceptable if they come from high SES families or are willing to learn Mandarin.

Spare us this god awful BS. Ignore the miserable, hackneyed race-baiting everybody. We're too far into this century to tolerate it.

DCPS' refusal to give schools a fighting chance to differentiate effectively obviously motivates high SES, and other strongly education-minded parents, of all stripes to amalgamate around certain schools. I've seen how low and moderate income black kids (including recent immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean) who can keep up with run-of-the-mill high SES kids, or even move ahead of them academically, are embraced with open arms in schools.

DC isn't a racist town, it's one without many high performing public schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Won't happen because the racial makeup wouldn't match the city.

But it would match the country. We don't live in Nigeria, despite of what some folks seem to think.

And we don't live in Wyoming or Idaho either, despite what some folks seem to think.

Correct. We live in the capital of a country called the USA, despite what some folks seem to think.

Demographics of said country: 64% white, 16% Latino, 12% black, 4% Asian.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is frustrating that pull outs in DC seem to focus on kids who are behind rather than those that are ahead.

Not the experience at our elementary school (Hearst). While those who are behind are getting pullouts, many of the kids who are ahead are getting pullouts as well to give them more challenging work. In fact, some have been concerned that the advanced kids are being pulled out too much.

But is that 3 kids in a whole class of 20+ or how many advanced kids getting pulled out?

And may I ask why anyone would be worried the advanced kids were being pulled out too much? (honest question!) For how many hours a week are they being pulled out? Is it the parents of the advanced kids that are worried or other parents?

Thanks!

NP here, but in-class differentiation thrives at our upper NW ES, too. In ELA and math there's a combination of full-class instruction and ability-based small group work. Usually 4-5 groups per class (of 20 or so), rotating through stations (including work with the teacher or an aide). One of my kids is advanced in math and the other in ELA, and both have been appropriately challenged throughout their ES years.

I grew up in a traditional tracked gifted program, and I think the in-class differentiation approach is superior. It keeps kids in heterogeneous classes and allows for fluid regrouping, which I think is huge--it allows teachers to respond to what they're seeing over time and doesn't consign kids to rigid tracks. My math kid has moved from the highest small group to independent work (when he was working ahead of the group on a particular unit) and back to the small group again. The teacher has the flexibility to make these changes in real-time.

The huge caveat is that the success of the in-class approach is completely dependent on a strong principal and teaching staff--the principal has to believe in it and create consistency in how teachers are applying the model. I recognize that this is not happening at most DCPS schools and that many kids are not being challenged appropriately. But I'd much rather see DCPS focus on implementing effective in-class differentiation at all schools than spend resources creating a gifted track that simply sucks out the "smart"/well-prepped kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Won't happen because the racial makeup wouldn't match the city.

But it would match the country. We don't live in Nigeria, despite of what some folks seem to think.

And we don't live in Wyoming or Idaho either, despite what some folks seem to think.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you did your research you'd see that most commonly-found GT programs (gifted pull out programs) have a very low rate of effectiveness. Therefore what is their real purpose in which they are "effective"? Mostly just further segregating students. Advanced students' needs can and should be met. However, traditional programs such as what many on here are advocating for is not the answer.

source / citation, please?

https://books.google.com/books?id=ZIZJiXMUYS0C&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=gifted+programs+lack+of+efficacy&source=bl&ots=dJISs91xOw&sig=C-AW_dDdpBm-n26bXhdLe2CNQw0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjC4sOe24HKAhVCPT4KHZFEBpQQ6AEIJzAB#v=onepage&q=gifted%20programs%20lack%20of%20efficacy&f=false

The book you cite uses out of date research from 25 years ago.

Here is more recent research on the effectiveness of flexible ability grouping:

https://www.nagc.org/resources-publications/gifted-education-practices/grouping

DCPS is doing a disservice to gifted disadvantaged students by not offering effective, rigorous gifted education IMO since gifted education via private schools and other venues are less accessible to them. Gifted students from well off families will find a way and have the means to get their student an education to meet their needs.

It is also truly unrealistic and not an effective use of a teacher's time to place students who are years and years apart academically in the same classroom. Who do you think the teacher is going to focus on??

Actually, the link you cited is from an advocacy group whose purpose it is to spread the type of programming you're pushing for. Definitely not an even closely objective source.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This topic keeps coming up because people refuse to look at the history and see just how bad DCPS fucked up "tracking" for several generations before home rule. Now, the people who were the victims of that situation have enough political clout to keep it from coming back, even though the "solution" is no solution at all.

You mean, the (mostly white) families who had to leave the city because of the (mostly black) crime?

We can talk decades-old history, or we can talk current problems and solutions

Those (mostly white) families left after Brown mainly because they didn't want their children to share classrooms with black children.

Not so different from today, although certain black children are acceptable if they come from high SES families or are willing to learn Mandarin.

Anonymous wrote:This topic keeps coming up because people refuse to look at the history and see just how bad DCPS fucked up "tracking" for several generations before home rule. Now, the people who were the victims of that situation have enough political clout to keep it from coming back, even though the "solution" is no solution at all.

http://usedulaw.com/333-hobson-v-hansen.html

Anonymous wrote:This topic keeps coming up because people refuse to look at the history and see just how bad DCPS fucked up "tracking" for several generations before home rule. Now, the people who were the victims of that situation have enough political clout to keep it from coming back, even though the "solution" is no solution at all.

You mean, the (mostly white) families who had to leave the city because of the (mostly black) crime?

We can talk decades-old history, or we can talk current problems and solutions

This topic keeps coming up because people refuse to look at the history and see just how bad DCPS fucked up "tracking" for several generations before home rule. Now, the people who were the victims of that situation have enough political clout to keep it from coming back, even though the "solution" is no solution at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is frustrating that pull outs in DC seem to focus on kids who are behind rather than those that are ahead.

Not the experience at our elementary school (Hearst). While those who are behind are getting pullouts, many of the kids who are ahead are getting pullouts as well to give them more challenging work. In fact, some have been concerned that the advanced kids are being pulled out too much.

But is that 3 kids in a whole class of 20+ or how many advanced kids getting pulled out?

And may I ask why anyone would be worried the advanced kids were being pulled out too much? (honest question!) For how many hours a week are they being pulled out? Is it the parents of the advanced kids that are worried or other parents?

Thanks!