Those espousing the view that sex isn't "special" or is something that's only for pleasure, with no
Emotions or commitment attached are deluding yourselves unless you're in open marriages. If it's "special" enough that you commit to never do it with anyone but your spouse, it's "special" enough to want to be in a committed relationship to do. The vows don't say you'll never have lunch with someone else, they say you'll never sleep with someone else. So, unless you're ok with your spouse sleeping with others, you need to acknowledge that there are scenarios where you, too, regard sex as special and a part of a committed relationship, not a casual one. Quit suggesting OP is flawed, immature, or low-drive because she does acknowledge that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blah, blah, blah... Drama, drama, drama.

For fuck sakes... It's sex, pleasure, enjoyment. Use common sense. Use protection. Enjoy.

Some people think it is some sacred treasure, diamond enlayed, Gold... WTF?

You mesh well together or you don't, move on.

I don't think sex is some sacred treasure. But I also just don't enjoy casual sex. It's not because I feel like sex should be sharing something "special" with a special someone. It's because to really enjoy myself I need to feel relaxed and comfortable around someone. Otherwise, I'm just not going to enjoy it that much. So if I do sleep with someone casually, it *does* feel transactional for me, like I'm doing it for someone else, or for some reason other than to please myself. And that feeling just adds to my discomfort. I've had very satisfying sexual relationships, so it's not about having a low drive or lack of interest.

Me too

Anonymous wrote:Blah, blah, blah... Drama, drama, drama.

For fuck sakes... It's sex, pleasure, enjoyment. Use common sense. Use protection. Enjoy.

Some people think it is some sacred treasure, diamond enlayed, Gold... WTF?

You mesh well together or you don't, move on.

I don't think sex is some sacred treasure. But I also just don't enjoy casual sex. It's not because I feel like sex should be sharing something "special" with a special someone. It's because to really enjoy myself I need to feel relaxed and comfortable around someone. Otherwise, I'm just not going to enjoy it that much. So if I do sleep with someone casually, it *does* feel transactional for me, like I'm doing it for someone else, or for some reason other than to please myself. And that feeling just adds to my discomfort. I've had very satisfying sexual relationships, so it's not about having a low drive or lack of interest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am clearly a prude. I never occurred to me when dating to have sex before i was comfortable and we were clearly exclusive.

nobody is saying to have sex before you are comfortable.... what the OP is effectively talking about the opposite of waiting until you are comfortable... she is saying to put a "minimum" number of dated in place which means she may be postponing sex beyond a point where she is comfortable simply to "date without sex" because she has a rule...

I've been watching this thread and I have to say that I think the OP would be very difficult to date. I get the strong impression that the guy she feels "rejected" by (see her other thread) probably can't figure out if SHE is really interested in him. She probably sends mixed signals and is probably more into having a guy chase after her than she is into actually having a relationship.

I'm not the OP of the other thread. I'm not saying I'll wait to marriage either. I want to change my strategy because I tend to be comfortable for sex early on and it complicates things for me and causes problems further down the road. I'm trying to build emotional inimacy first which usually takes a long time for me because I think sex confuse things for me

I am on the op of the other thread.

If I sleep with a guy early on, I get more invested in wanting the relationship to work out. I'm more likely to overlook issues etc. Whereas if I haven't slept with a guy yet, and I see some red flags, I'm better about moving on. It's like waiting to have sex keeps my head and emotions and judgment clearer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Wow, I am clearly a prude. I never occurred to me when dating to have sex before i was comfortable and we were clearly exclusive.


Neither would I but honestly if you're not comfortable with a guy after a number of dates, it's time to dump him and move on. How many dates are reasonable?

At one date a week, 5 dates is 5 weeks ... if you're not comfortable then, the chemistry's definitely off.


And you are okay that he probably has 1 or 2 other women in the same situation.

How many weeks do you expect it to take to untangle from those women?

Any guy who is dating 1 or 2 women will not waste time taking a woman out for 5 weeks. Most likely you have a guy who is not in demand/experienced. He will stick around and spend money on you. These guys get burnt a lot.


Not true. Most guys/gals are dating multiple people and rotate them out on a regular basis. Most guys will put a good 8-12 weeks in if they get somebody new into the rotation.

Maybe a player but most guys no. I know very few men who would put 8-12 weeks in on a woman. The market for men with good resumes is very competitive ...and the op is 30 plus.

So your theory is there are a bunch of guys going without sex out there but they won't date a girl for 12 weeks without sex. Okay... That makes no sense at all.

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Wow, I am clearly a prude. I never occurred to me when dating to have sex before i was comfortable and we were clearly exclusive.


Neither would I but honestly if you're not comfortable with a guy after a number of dates, it's time to dump him and move on. How many dates are reasonable?

At one date a week, 5 dates is 5 weeks ... if you're not comfortable then, the chemistry's definitely off.


And you are okay that he probably has 1 or 2 other women in the same situation.

How many weeks do you expect it to take to untangle from those women?

Any guy who is dating 1 or 2 women will not waste time taking a woman out for 5 weeks. Most likely you have a guy who is not in demand/experienced. He will stick around and spend money on you. These guys get burnt a lot.


Not true. Most guys/gals are dating multiple people and rotate them out on a regular basis. Most guys will put a good 8-12 weeks in if they get somebody new into the rotation.

Maybe a player but most guys no. I know very few men who would put 8-12 weeks in on a woman. The market for men with good resumes is very competitive ...and the op is 30 plus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, and I'm marrying him in 2016! We met in late 2014.

If you don't mind sharing. How did you meet? How did your relationship progress?

We met online through OKC after a lot of coaxing from a friend who was on several different dating sites. I was out of a long term relationship for over a year, and was ready to date again but hadn't taken the first step to initiate. We met each other's families within the first 4 months. We took several summer vacations together which definitely gave us an idea of how well we can problem solve together, and communication is key for everything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Wow, I am clearly a prude. I never occurred to me when dating to have sex before i was comfortable and we were clearly exclusive.


Neither would I but honestly if you're not comfortable with a guy after a number of dates, it's time to dump him and move on. How many dates are reasonable?

At one date a week, 5 dates is 5 weeks ... if you're not comfortable then, the chemistry's definitely off.


And you are okay that he probably has 1 or 2 other women in the same situation.

How many weeks do you expect it to take to untangle from those women?

Any guy who is dating 1 or 2 women will not waste time taking a woman out for 5 weeks. Most likely you have a guy who is not in demand/experienced. He will stick around and spend money on you. These guys get burnt a lot.

Not true. Most guys/gals are dating multiple people and rotate them out on a regular basis. Most guys will put a good 8-12 weeks in if they get somebody new into the rotation.

Most? Where do you get your numbers? Really curious.

Blah, blah, blah... Drama, drama, drama.

For fuck sakes... It's sex, pleasure, enjoyment. Use common sense. Use protection. Enjoy.

Some people think it is some sacred treasure, diamond enlayed, Gold... WTF?

You mesh well together or you don't, move on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread and I have to say that I think the OP would be very difficult to date. I get the strong impression that the guy she feels "rejected" by (see her other thread) probably can't figure out if SHE is really interested in him. She probably sends mixed signals and is probably more into having a guy chase after her than she is into actually having a relationship.

This. I've commented on both threads, but you have said exactly what I think is going on. I don't think she's more into the chase, but I do think she's sending mixed messages because she doesn't know herself what it is she wants.

I think OP knows what she wants, she wants a loving committed relationship before she has sex.

Sex has many risks, STDs, pregnancy, assaults, being used.

She just needs to be confident in her decision and communicate it with confidence.

Her "mixed message" is her reluctance to being judged as a prudish, dick teasing bitch.

OP, stay true to yourself and expect more from others ... Don't give into to other's eectations.

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread and I have to say that I think the OP would be very difficult to date. I get the strong impression that the guy she feels "rejected" by (see her other thread) probably can't figure out if SHE is really interested in him. She probably sends mixed signals and is probably more into having a guy chase after her than she is into actually having a relationship.

This. I've commented on both threads, but you have said exactly what I think is going on. I don't think she's more into the chase, but I do think she's sending mixed messages because she doesn't know herself what it is she wants.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I am clearly a prude. I never occurred to me when dating to have sex before i was comfortable and we were clearly exclusive.

nobody is saying to have sex before you are comfortable.... what the OP is effectively talking about the opposite of waiting until you are comfortable... she is saying to put a "minimum" number of dated in place which means she may be postponing sex beyond a point where she is comfortable simply to "date without sex" because she has a rule...

I've been watching this thread and I have to say that I think the OP would be very difficult to date. I get the strong impression that the guy she feels "rejected" by (see her other thread) probably can't figure out if SHE is really interested in him. She probably sends mixed signals and is probably more into having a guy chase after her than she is into actually having a relationship.

I'm not the OP of the other thread. I'm not saying I'll wait to marriage either. I want to change my strategy because I tend to be comfortable for sex early on and it complicates things for me and causes problems further down the road. I'm trying to build emotional inimacy first which usually takes a long time for me because I think sex confuse things for me

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I thought about it differently, if I find the person I'm with to be attractive and the chemistry is right I slept with him pretty early on, maybe date one, three or four. If the chemistry and sex are lined up then the other parts of the relationship always seem to fall in line. I've had three serious boyfriends and a number of casual hookups; when I was having sex with them I always knew what I was getting myself into.
I had sex with my husband approximately 90 minutes after meeting him, stone cold sober in the middle of the day at an apple orchard; that was 19 years ago.

I went the long way around saying this; give yourself some rules if you like but if you feel it (that unmistakable inner pull towards someone) don't be afraid to break them.

Wow! How old were you? How did you meet him? Is the chemistry still there?

We were 26, 43 now; he was a friend of a friend who came on a hike with us on a Sunday afternoon. There were six of us and once we exchanged hellos we never stopped talking. We took up a spot at the back of the group, we were holding hands within minutes, he kissed me and I nearly passed out. We stopped for lunch at an apple orchard and he sat down across from me and gave me a look, he put out his hand and we walked off together. What was happening was so obvious to everyone with us that they didn't even come to try and find us when they left to finish the hike. My girlfriend wrote a note on my car that said "hopefully I can be your maid of honor".

although it certainly not as intense as before we rarely go 36 hours without being together. There is no one I'd rather be with, he and I have become one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I thought about it differently, if I find the person I'm with to be attractive and the chemistry is right I slept with him pretty early on, maybe date one, three or four. If the chemistry and sex are lined up then the other parts of the relationship always seem to fall in line. I've had three serious boyfriends and a number of casual hookups; when I was having sex with them I always knew what I was getting myself into.
I had sex with my husband approximately 90 minutes after meeting him, stone cold sober in the middle of the day at an apple orchard; that was 19 years ago.

I went the long way around saying this; give yourself some rules if you like but if you feel it (that unmistakable inner pull towards someone) don't be afraid to break them.

Interesting. I have to ask, and I mean this in a non-judgmental way, but was this unique? Or did you have sex with many men that quickly before finding the right one?

There have only been two times in my life where I have come across someone where the chemistry was ultra intense; I had sex with both of them very quickly. My husband was a little under an hour and a half and the other man was less than 30 minutes; I obviously married my husband and the other one was a boyfriend for five years.
During normal dating I would have sex when I felt it was right, I never denied myself anything and I very rarely got my feelings hurt, I may have just had a good read on the situation and didn't treat sex as a reward for commitment. If the relationship is going to be casual I knew it was going to be casual and if I wanted to have sex with them I did. If I wanted the relationship to be casual but I was pretty sure that he didn't I would tell him that before we got together; I was always careful with my feelings as well as others and that seems to have worked out pretty well.

Anonymous wrote:Not if you want a happy marriage.
Try before you buy because forever is a long, long time.

I really have to second this.

I'm a guy who actually shifted my strategy in my 40s (divorced, now remarried) and started wanting to be able to date for a while to make sure I actually liked someone before being "rushed" into exclusivity and too much emotional commitment by rushing into physical intimacy. It seemed to me there was a 3 date rule - first date, nothing much maybe a kiss, second date making out, and third date, sex. Because the "exclusivity" rule seemed to be the norm, I would go on a couple of dates and find myself in an "exclusive" relationship with a woman before I really wanted to be - I still wanted to get to know her better before I was "locked in" to something that I might decide I wanted out of.

It's fine to wait a long time but waiting until marriage is completely foolish. Also: the longer you insist on waiting for physical intimacy (and I'm including all of it, not just PIV "sex"), the more you will narrow your pool of potential dates. It's one thing to pursue a long waiting period in your late teens and twenties, but quite different by your 30s. The pool of people who aren't sexually experienced shrinks enormously, and the more experienced people are, the greater the expectations of intimacy. I just think you will really dramatically narrow your pool to people who - like you - put a premium on commitment and an emotional attachment over casual intimacy; the pool of guys like this is small.

That's not a bad thing: the older we get, and the better we know ourselves, the better we can make smart choices about who we want to spend our lives with, and the choosier we can be. Ideally, this change is also partly due to learning we can be complete, happy and alone, and so there is no "pressure" to marry. So, in a way, getting pickier or narrowing your pool down to people who are real matches for you emotionally is good.

However, I do think you're going to push it a lot by expecting no physical intimacy for >3 months. That's the natural "infatuation" period, and honestly, nobody can keep a mask on for that long - they will have revealed themselves to you by then. I know people who say they were "fooled" by someone for longer than that, but in every case it was pretty clear they wanted to be fooled and chose to ignore warning signs.

I also know that a lot, lot, lot of men will read this as "she's really just not that into me"...because this is exactly what women do who are not into you but like going out (and I don't think sex is transactional, this is just a friend-zone move).

All that said, when I met my wife, I was trying to do this - date casually, and not rush into sex - and I wound up sleeping with her and one other woman I had been seeing at the same time (not together) - they both initiated (and I was surprised how much I could get them to chase me by not chasing them). I slept with DW on the third date. I was very uncomfortable for the month or so that I was seeing (and sleeping wth) both of them, definitely not cut out for that.