Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which RE? Would you consider a top clinic out of town? I don't think any of the local REs really specialize in DOR.

I'd talk to Dr. Davis at Cornell if using OE is important to you. If not, then maybe DE is an easier path to jump to.

OP here. I guess I kind of see it as maybe the fact that I have such awful numbers--undetectable AMH, high FSH, and bad antral follicle count, combined with the fact that I haven't gotten pregnant in 10 months of trying (using an OPK), means that mother nature is telling me that my own eggs are old and crappy and I shouldn't be trying to create a pregnancy where none was meant to be. Does anyone else with DOR feel this way?

I guess I feel uncomfortable with the idea of ISCI, assisted hatching, etc.--if my eggs have a hard shell, and are resistant to fertilization the old fashioned way, well maybe that's because they're old and not meant to be fertilized. Maybe if I do proceed and create a pregnancy with my old eggs through IVF, the baby won't be healthy (you can't tell about all health issues from PGD, or CVS or even amnio.) They can test for chromosomal abnormalities, and genetic conditions but not mental health issues or autism, etc.

So I guess I'm leaning toward not feeling comfortable using my own eggs at this point, with the information I have about my bad numbers and the fact that I haven't gotten pregnant in almost a year of trying. Donor eggs is much more appealing because I'd be using young and healthy eggs.

10 months isn't really that long in the grand scheme of things. Normal couples only have a 20% chance of conceiving each cycle. And 6-12 months is not considered unusual to TTC.

I'd hate for you to make all of these big decisions based off of one single blood test and one single RE's opinion. I'd get a second opinion/bloodwork run. And personally I'd do at least one cycles - even just clomid & IUI - just to see how your body actually responds. A diagnostic cycle.

ICSI is for male factor issues.

You might want to talk to an IF therapist. 38 isn't that old and you seen to have some really negative feelings about your eggs right now. Remember one of them just made a baby fairly recently. There might be another good one in there.

But there are a lot of great options for DE too. PP had some good advice.

And if you end up with an only that is completely fine too. The good thing about kids is that they are so resilient/adaptable and can handle many different environments.

OP, I think think things have changed a lot since we were kids, so I wouldn't extrapolate too much from your own experience. Growing up, I didn't know a single kid who was an only. Now, more of my friends are "one and done" than parents of 2+ children. As they grow up, those singletons will be reaching out and forming stronger bonds with more friends. I also see friends of mine with siblings whom they are not close with, and they have more friends that are like family. Bottom line, its human nature to create close "family" units regardless of whether they have blood ties or not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't nag other parents for constant playdates - some people go to great lengths to have two kids so they have playmates. When you ask every single f'in day for a playdate with just one of them because your singleton is bored it gets REALLY annoying.

You are nasty. Not much more to say than that - just f'in say no, thank you. Your kids are so unlucky to have a shrew like you for a mom.

OP, however fervently you choose to pursue the second, please don't turn into someone like the first PP.

The reason to have another child so that the first has a playmate always struck me as odd. I wonder what PP says to her younger child when her friend wants to have a play date? No, you can't go to your friend's house. Tough luck, I gave birth to you so that you entertain your older brother.

When young, siblings fight and constantly experience some form of rivalry. My neighbor has three boys, 1.5-2 years apart. They never play together. They have family time in the backyard, but unless a parent is there, the boys would much rather hang out with peers. My BFF has three girls. OMG, I literally can't be in her house when her kids are there. The constant fighting is exhausting. When my other friend hit puberty, she'd much rather hang out with boyfriends than had her 7, 9, and 11 year old siblings in tow.

Anyway, if you want a second for the sake of your first, don't bother. It's a crap shoot, and your chances for disappointment at their less than Hallmark relationship are great. Work towards a second if you really want one. It's perfectly fine to want more of mini yous running around, a bigger family, and all that. But it's totally fucked to bring a new life into the world so that your child may have a playmate. Someday. If they're lucky. It's not like you need a bone marrow donor or something.

It sounds like you want another child quite badly. Why wouldn't you give IVF at least one try? I would also get a second RE opinion.

Anonymous wrote:Please don't nag other parents for constant playdates - some people go to great lengths to have two kids so they have playmates. When you ask every single f'in day for a playdate with just one of them because your singleton is bored it gets REALLY annoying.

You are nasty. Not much more to say than that - just f'in say no, thank you. Your kids are so unlucky to have a shrew like you for a mom.

OP, I feel like you should go to the infertility support forums on DCUM. Lots of us there who have exhausted every option under the sun for primary and secondary infertility; some move to DE right away, others of us try with our OEs for years. I've been trying for a second child for years via IVF -- it is hard and it sucks the life out of you if you let it, but there are happy endings for many and you need to look toward those. Look for solutions, research all your options from reliable sources and the most excellent doctors you can afford.

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, I'm an only too and I have to agree with a PP that maybe you should not project your only experience on your daughter. Like you, I was an only who didn't have any relatives nearby growing up. My parents didn't have many friends, and often it was just the three of us. But I've always been fine with being an only...the difference I see is that I made my friends...my parents didn't have anything to do with my making friends. I spent time at friends houses, I was in Girl Scouts, joined sports teams even though I was horribly un-athletic. So in moving forward, maybe encourage your daughter to make friends, do things with them, join groups and activities she enjoys. She can build a set of relationships organically. Maybe address the issue of you making friends separately...while it's nice to have friends with kids near in age, I don't really subscribe to the idea of making adult friends through your kids.

I am with you, pp. I am also an only child and growing up it was often just my parents and me. My extended family didn't live close by. But that was okay with me. I always had friends and felt loved. Please don't project your own experience onto your kid. If you need help looking on the bright side, honesty maybe a therapist would be helpful.
Things to think about - you don't need to make entire family friends. My best friends were my friends growing up. I made my friends at school and daycare, not classes I took with my mom. Also, you sound lonely yourself. What do you like to do? Go do that! You will probably have better luck making friends that way than just finding other people with kids. And maybe it will help you to know that you and your family are perfect just as you are. Your family doesn't look like you thought it would - but that's true of a lot of people. And life in general. You need to work on finding happiness in the now. Good luck to you!

OP-I'm an PP and an only. The only local relative we had was my grandmother and she was not fuzzy or nice in any way. She would actually choose to go elsewhere for holidays rather than our house just to spite my dad. So I wished for a nice grandmother who baked cookies and hosted family dinners. And guess what? I married into a family that was like this. My H has brothers, including a younger one (I always wanted a little brother) and a grandmother who baked cookies and hosted meals for holidays. Some days it's like heaven having a big family and other days I am so so glad I can step away since I'm not blood related to those people.

I agree with a PP who suggested therapy in order to work on not projecting your issues about being an only onto your daughter. Your daughter doesn't have to have the same experience as you. And she may end up marrying into a big family and have the best of both worlds!

OP, it sounds to me like you are actually more comfortable with having an only than you think you are. I used DE for my first and also to get a second as a sibling to the first. For people who really want a second kid, everything is on table and you keep trying things until you are totally out of options. Since you are considering sticking with one before you have tried anything, chances are you are actually satisfied being the mom of an only.

Anonymous wrote:Which RE? Would you consider a top clinic out of town? I don't think any of the local REs really specialize in DOR.

I'd talk to Dr. Davis at Cornell if using OE is important to you. If not, then maybe DE is an easier path to jump to.

OP here. I guess I kind of see it as maybe the fact that I have such awful numbers--undetectable AMH, high FSH, and bad antral follicle count, combined with the fact that I haven't gotten pregnant in 10 months of trying (using an OPK), means that mother nature is telling me that my own eggs are old and crappy and I shouldn't be trying to create a pregnancy where none was meant to be. Does anyone else with DOR feel this way?

I guess I feel uncomfortable with the idea of ISCI, assisted hatching, etc.--if my eggs have a hard shell, and are resistant to fertilization the old fashioned way, well maybe that's because they're old and not meant to be fertilized. Maybe if I do proceed and create a pregnancy with my old eggs through IVF, the baby won't be healthy (you can't tell about all health issues from PGD, or CVS or even amnio.) They can test for chromosomal abnormalities, and genetic conditions but not mental health issues or autism, etc.

So I guess I'm leaning toward not feeling comfortable using my own eggs at this point, with the information I have about my bad numbers and the fact that I haven't gotten pregnant in almost a year of trying. Donor eggs is much more appealing because I'd be using young and healthy eggs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes these doctors pull statistics out of the air. I wonder how he came up with 5% when you gave birth less than 2 years ago.
How old are you?

I'm 37. My AMH is .01 (almost 0). My FSH is 15. My antral follicle count is 4. In other words, all these numbers are pretty bad (I have the ovaries of a 44 year old). It's very odd that I got pregnant on the second month of trying naturally. I had an easy, healthy pregnancy and delivery. But it's unlikely I can get pregnant again. I'm not willing to go through IVF for such a low chance of success.

OP, I spent 5 years in IVF treatments with similar stats and finally conceived my first child with DE. You were lucky you got pregnant easily with these stats. You may be lucky if you do IVF but you have to consider the cost and the emotional toll if you do not succeed. I was successful on my first round of DE. If you carried a pregnancy once, you could carry again and, if egg quality Is your only issue, you may want to consider using donor eggs. You will not have to go through stimulation and will only take estrogen for your lining. We used frozen eggs and it was really easy to schedule the cycle, we used RBA in Atlanta.

I hear you. And I know how you feel. I want a subling for my daughter and I am older than you and worry that I may not have time. I can't forgive myself that I spent 5 years trying to conceive with my own eggs, when I could have spent that time with my kids.

OP here. Thanks for sharing your story. For me, I can't believe that I had these "bad" numbers when I got pregnant right away 2.5 years ago. I think I probably had okay numbers then, and got lucky getting pregnant quickly, but maybe then things deteriorated really quickly with my egg quality to end up with such bad numbers now. Because now it's been 10 months TTC and no pregnancy, and with an AMH of .01 and a high FSH the lack of getting pregnant makes sense.

Anyhow, I am not going to do traditional IVF--not for me with such low chances of success. But I may do donor egg. Egg quality is my only issue that I know of. I am also looking into RBA in Atlanta. From my research that seems to be the best place for donor egg. The whole IVF process for donor egg scares me though. Did you have to do PIO injections? Can you tell me more about the meds? I have had all my initial testing done. Where did you do local monitoring? Thanks.

I had AMH of 1.1 at age 34, it was undetectable 2 years later. So yes, your hormones rapidly could change. I also had very low antral follicles count and we could only retrieve 2-3 eggs regardless of protocol and medications. It does not mean the same would happen to you. It is more of a question how long you could wait, keep trying and how you would bare the financial burden. In my case, I had a very good health insurance otherwise I probably would have stopped trying with my own eggs after 1-2 cycles( I ended up with 8)

I did not do PIO. I did progesterone suppositories and estrogens pills. This is all you need for a donor cycle. Believe me the medications for a donor cycle are nothing compared to what you need to take when you do own egg IVF. We saw dr Shapiro in Atlanta and loved him. Did local monitoring at CFA with DR Abassi in Arlington.

Which RE? Would you consider a top clinic out of town? I don't think any of the local REs really specialize in DOR.

I'd talk to Dr. Davis at Cornell if using OE is important to you. If not, then maybe DE is an easier path to jump to.

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you done any IUIs? Did you only have bloodwork done once? I don't know that I'd give up quite so easily if having a second child is important to you.

OP here. I plan to get a second round of bloodwork but my bloodwork was done just last month, so very recent. Re: IUIs, REs said that was a waste of time for someone with my stats.

OP, have you done any IUIs? Did you only have bloodwork done once? I don't know that I'd give up quite so easily if having a second child is important to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes these doctors pull statistics out of the air. I wonder how he came up with 5% when you gave birth less than 2 years ago.
How old are you?

I'm 37. My AMH is .01 (almost 0). My FSH is 15. My antral follicle count is 4. In other words, all these numbers are pretty bad (I have the ovaries of a 44 year old). It's very odd that I got pregnant on the second month of trying naturally. I had an easy, healthy pregnancy and delivery. But it's unlikely I can get pregnant again. I'm not willing to go through IVF for such a low chance of success.

OP, I spent 5 years in IVF treatments with similar stats and finally conceived my first child with DE. You were lucky you got pregnant easily with these stats. You may be lucky if you do IVF but you have to consider the cost and the emotional toll if you do not succeed. I was successful on my first round of DE. If you carried a pregnancy once, you could carry again and, if egg quality Is your only issue, you may want to consider using donor eggs. You will not have to go through stimulation and will only take estrogen for your lining. We used frozen eggs and it was really easy to schedule the cycle, we used RBA in Atlanta.

I hear you. And I know how you feel. I want a subling for my daughter and I am older than you and worry that I may not have time. I can't forgive myself that I spent 5 years trying to conceive with my own eggs, when I could have spent that time with my kids.

OP here. Thanks for sharing your story. For me, I can't believe that I had these "bad" numbers when I got pregnant right away 2.5 years ago. I think I probably had okay numbers then, and got lucky getting pregnant quickly, but maybe then things deteriorated really quickly with my egg quality to end up with such bad numbers now. Because now it's been 10 months TTC and no pregnancy, and with an AMH of .01 and a high FSH the lack of getting pregnant makes sense.

Anyhow, I am not going to do traditional IVF--not for me with such low chances of success. But I may do donor egg. Egg quality is my only issue that I know of. I am also looking into RBA in Atlanta. From my research that seems to be the best place for donor egg. The whole IVF process for donor egg scares me though. Did you have to do PIO injections? Can you tell me more about the meds? I have had all my initial testing done. Where did you do local monitoring? Thanks.