Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not get the Koran and educate people about how Muslims are going to hell if they kill non-Muslims. It says so in the Koran, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't say that.

Signed, a person who has read the Quran, and don't make me type what it does say

Well it certainly doesn't say to kill woman and children.

~Someone that has read it several times

It says it's ok to enslave women and children, which is what ISIS is doing

- Someone who has read it and wishes more people would do so

Muslim isn't a race, so you can't cry racism.

You choose to be Muslim. It is not a race but a religion that you choose to practice.

I am worried about ladies in hijabs and sikhs, who both have a visible sign of their religion and are thus easy targets for ignorant, violent people. For myself and my husband, who are both middle eastern, look middle eastern (or maybe hispanic) and have obviously middle eastern names, things have not been bad. We actually traveled by plane the day after the Paris attacks with no issues, and nothing has really ever happened to us, so I assume the case is similar for muslims who do not wear hijab or have some other obvious sign of piety.

Contrast this to our experience in our country of origin, where as a woman without hijab I am gawked at, leered at, and harassed, where if we walked into a store and people realized we were Christian they would sometimes ignore us or even play the Koran at full blast, where certain positions/jobs were closed off to us, where our work colleagues openly celebrated the death of Americans on September 11, where someone could murder us or burn down our churches with absolutely no consequence, etc. Not that our society is perfect (look at how police treat black people), but we seem to eventually make progress, slowly, very slowly. In our birth country, resolving these issues is absolutely the farthest thing from anybody's mind. Something heinous will happen, such as people burning down or looting a church, and there will be a little bit of angst about it, and then absolutely nothing will happen. Even if the perpetrators are caught, they often walk away without being prosecuted.

I can't say that I have any warm feelings about Islam as a religion. All my life, starting way before September 11 2001, I have seen only the worst aspects of it and how it seems to encourage the most evil instincts in otherwise regular people. And then you have people who are not regular, who have personality disorders of some sort, who take things to a whole new level as we see in ISIS. I have many Muslim friends who are perfectly nice, ordinary people, but privately I believe that this is despite their religion. I know a lot of messed up Christians, or Christians who believe in total crazy nonsense, but it is just different with Islam. I don't think it is necessarily an "evil" religion or something like that, but that there is some sort of structural problem with the religion where people take things to this totally insane extreme and there is no check on it until it is too late.

At least in America, we can HAVE an outcry. People will protest, and people can change their minds and say "you know, that is f***ed up how the police shot those people." At least educated people recognize that it is absolutely unacceptable to blame all Muslims for the actions of a few.

Anonymous wrote:Here's a lovely op-ed in the NY Times on this very subject: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/magazine/my-life-as-a-muslim-in-the-wests-gray-zone.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fmagazine&action=click&contentCollection=magazine®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront

The most striking thing is when she notes that young, white Christian men are not asked to disclaim responsibility for the terrorist acts of other young, white Christian men. Jews in this country are not asked to account (by most people!) for the actions of ultra-orthodox Jewish settlers or Israeli soldiers. Yet Muslims who are just going about their lives are asked to speak out against Islamic terrorists. It's somehow assumed that other Muslims are secretly hankering to gun down a theater full of people but have somehow restrained themselves all these years.

I'm sorry, OP and others. The Paris attacks were terrible. All the attacks are terrible. But the vile rhetoric and spewing of hatred in the wake of these attacks is terrible too -- despicable, really. As a Jew, I am ashamed when I hear fellow Jews arguing to keep Syrian refugees out on grounds of ignorance, bigotry, and fear. But no one holds me responsible for the views or actions of my co-religionists, so I am lucky.

+1

Yes, it's like demanding Christians to disclaim responsibility for the acts of the KKK or to defend their faith by explaining how their beliefs (which may in fact be rather vague and based on Sunday school classes they occasionally attended as a child) differ from the beliefs of the Branch Davidians, who claim to be Christian.

Christians get to just say such groups are loony fanatic extremists, so why can't normal Muslims--many of whom are as secular as secular Christians are--get the same kind of pass? They shouldn't have to be held to account for the acts of people whose beliefs and behaviors are so alien to them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not get the Koran and educate people about how Muslims are going to hell if they kill non-Muslims. It says so in the Koran, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't say that.

Signed, a person who has read the Quran, and don't make me type what it does say

Well it certainly doesn't say to kill woman and children.

~Someone that has read it several times

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you all feel paranoid but nothing has happened to you personally. But yet, we are not allowed to feel paranoid that something might happen to us here in the US by ISIS? Hate, bigotry and racism goes both ways but it is only a small minority.

Not the OP but of course you're allowed to feel paranoid about what ISIS might do. I'm paranoid about what ISIS might do. But we can worry about terrorists and not let our fears cause us to demonize millions of other people who have nothing to do with the terrorists.

On another note, ISIS wants the West to reject the refugees, which will alienate them from the West and drive them into the arms of ISIS. Giving into fear by refusing entry to 10,000 refugees is only letting the terrorists win. That's what the terrorists want in the long run.

Exactly. What does it say about our character as a nation that we let a tiny threat (and it's truly tiny) make us back off fast from humanitarian values?

Here's a lovely op-ed in the NY Times on this very subject: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/magazine/my-life-as-a-muslim-in-the-wests-gray-zone.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fmagazine&action=click&contentCollection=magazine®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront

The most striking thing is when she notes that young, white Christian men are not asked to disclaim responsibility for the terrorist acts of other young, white Christian men. Jews in this country are not asked to account (by most people!) for the actions of ultra-orthodox Jewish settlers or Israeli soldiers. Yet Muslims who are just going about their lives are asked to speak out against Islamic terrorists. It's somehow assumed that other Muslims are secretly hankering to gun down a theater full of people but have somehow restrained themselves all these years.

I'm sorry, OP and others. The Paris attacks were terrible. All the attacks are terrible. But the vile rhetoric and spewing of hatred in the wake of these attacks is terrible too -- despicable, really. As a Jew, I am ashamed when I hear fellow Jews arguing to keep Syrian refugees out on grounds of ignorance, bigotry, and fear. But no one holds me responsible for the views or actions of my co-religionists, so I am lucky.

We should all buy a copy of the Satanic curses. The ayatollahs stupid edict on Salman Rushdie for writing an amazing book was one of the first salvos in this lunacy.

Anonymous wrote:Why not get the Koran and educate people about how Muslims are going to hell if they kill non-Muslims. It says so in the Koran, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't say that.

Signed, a person who has read the Quran, and don't make me type what it does say

Why not get the Koran and educate people about how Muslims are going to hell if they kill non-Muslims. It says so in the Koran, doesn't it?

They're probably not under as much threat as dc, ny, Boston. But always ready to stand by us,and fight for us..maybe listen to them.over turkey?

Anonymous wrote:I think Trump had a chance at winning up until he started getting carried away with his anti-Muslim agenda. I would support more through background checks on refugees and even investigating mosques with extremist membership or ties to terrorists. But thinking that every Muslim should card some type of special card? I'm not Muslim, but as someone of Middle Eastern descent, I think he wants America to go backwards. I think it is important for the next President to care about all of his constituents, not just white ones. I'm a little disappointed that I'm going to have to vote for a Democrat since all of the Republicans are nuts.

I think this may actually may him go UP in the polls. I think those of us in the area are really clueless about how most of airman secretly feels. I think a lot of folks in middle america, the south think he is right. It just seems so stunning to a lot of us living in a bubble in DC. Im from the south and I am dreading thanksgiving because I know the majority of the educated family at the table all agree with trump and I just don't want to have this battle over turkey.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

we created the vaccum in Iraq where ISIS was born. Egypt and Jordan are fighting Isis but they can barely feed their people. They need to be a part of the solution but should not be solely responsible for cleaning up our mess.

We remind me of Tom and Daisy Buchanan in the Great Gatsby. As Nick observes at the end:

"They were careless people, Tom and Daisy — they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made. . . ."

I love this! You have a beautiful mind to recall such a passage at a time like this.

Because Obama has done such an amazing job cleaning up lol.

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you all feel paranoid but nothing has happened to you personally. But yet, we are not allowed to feel paranoid that something might happen to us here in the US by ISIS? Hate, bigotry and racism goes both ways but it is only a small minority.

Not the OP but of course you're allowed to feel paranoid about what ISIS might do. I'm paranoid about what ISIS might do. But we can worry about terrorists and not let our fears cause us to demonize millions of other people who have nothing to do with the terrorists.

On another note, ISIS wants the West to reject the refugees, which will alienate them from the West and drive them into the arms of ISIS. Giving into fear by refusing entry to 10,000 refugees is only letting the terrorists win. That's what the terrorists want in the long run.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

we created the vaccum in Iraq where ISIS was born. Egypt and Jordan are fighting Isis but they can barely feed their people. They need to be a part of the solution but should not be solely responsible for cleaning up our mess.

We remind me of Tom and Daisy Buchanan in the Great Gatsby. As Nick observes at the end:

"They were careless people, Tom and Daisy — they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made. . . ."

I love this! You have a beautiful mind to recall such a passage at a time like this.

+1