Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was raised as an atheist and it was not until I was 45 or so that I could say it and not worry about the implications.
The few times I was dumb enough to say that in public as a child, I took a lot of glares and verbal attacks.
Either I am more confident and don't care about what others think, or people are easier going about this, but it was very hard before.

Are you serious? Everyone in and around DC is agnostic/atheist. At least most of the people I know. OP, no one cares.

LOL, so I guess places like McLean bible church don't have much attendance. It's just my imagination that they have to have police cruisers to close down 7 when service ends every Sunday.

I told my parents at 12. Confirmed my suspicion that my father also lacks any real faith. Had no concerns about being "out" in college or grad school or my workplace (lawyers don't care) but for the first time in my life I find myself thinking twice about it with the parents of my kids' peers, unless the parent already knows a lot more about me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please. People don't care if you're an atheist.

I take it you're not an atheist?

People care very much, and judge you as devoid of ethics, morals, or values. I have been told this numerous times by faith-believing people.

I was not raised Atheist, but it took me until my early-mid 20's to "come out" to a few people, and later to be more open. Till this day I still feel judged, and sometimes just say that I'm not religious, as opposed to being an atheist. It's still very much frowned down upon even in the US, and in a large metro area.

I am the only Christian in my core group of friends (the rest are atheist or agnostic). They have it much easier than I do.

Oh please. Give a concrete example of how this is true.

Not PP, but here are a few guesses: the friends aren't worried about their eternal salvation or that of their friends or families, so they can enjoy life more. They don't instill fear of hell into their children and don't have to manage all the questions kids have about what they're learning in Sunday school.

Knowing this is the one life they have, they try to live it to the fullest and instead of spending money supporting a church, they spend it on good times or can save more for their children's education.

They don't spend time wondering how evil things can happen in a world ruled by a benevolent god because they don't believe in any god at all.

They don't have to worry about whether or not they are pleasing a God they don't see and who doesn't talk to them.

They don't get angry or confused when God doesn't answer their prayers -- no praying/ no god.

In many ways it is an easier life -- as long as they are careful who they confide in about their lack of belief. Believers in some parts of the country can be quite hostile to non-believers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please. People don't care if you're an atheist.

I take it you're not an atheist?

People care very much, and judge you as devoid of ethics, morals, or values. I have been told this numerous times by faith-believing people.

I was not raised Atheist, but it took me until my early-mid 20's to "come out" to a few people, and later to be more open. Till this day I still feel judged, and sometimes just say that I'm not religious, as opposed to being an atheist. It's still very much frowned down upon even in the US, and in a large metro area.

I am the only Christian in my core group of friends (the rest are atheist or agnostic). They have it much easier than I do.

Oh please. Give a concrete example of how this is true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was raised as an atheist and it was not until I was 45 or so that I could say it and not worry about the implications.
The few times I was dumb enough to say that in public as a child, I took a lot of glares and verbal attacks.
Either I am more confident and don't care about what others think, or people are easier going about this, but it was very hard before.

Are you serious? Everyone in and around DC is agnostic/atheist. At least most of the people I know. OP, no one cares.

Not my experience at all and knowledge of simple demographics and church attendance would indicate that this is not accurate.

There are people in this area who don't care that much about religion, but still assume that most people are religious -- and based on the dialogue on this thread, some people think it's advertising simply to mention one's lack of belief.

You can go to church and be agnostic. It's why I'm considering leaving the Episcopal Church. Christians in the church are few and far between. I never thought I'd say that!

The Episcopal church is full of agnostics. Some churches openly welcome them. But the service is still the same, with all the biblical readings and recitation of the creed. People are welcome to interpret it metaphorically if they like. Many Episcopalians and their clergy are highly educated and understand that the Bible is meant to be taken seriously, not literally.

Good point.

I do wonder how an agnostic or atheist feels comfortable reciting the creed.

They change the words around in their minds to mean something more palatable (the priest might be doing that too) or they just don't recite it. No one's checking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was raised as an atheist and it was not until I was 45 or so that I could say it and not worry about the implications.
The few times I was dumb enough to say that in public as a child, I took a lot of glares and verbal attacks.
Either I am more confident and don't care about what others think, or people are easier going about this, but it was very hard before.

Are you serious? Everyone in and around DC is agnostic/atheist. At least most of the people I know. OP, no one cares.

Not my experience at all and knowledge of simple demographics and church attendance would indicate that this is not accurate.

There are people in this area who don't care that much about religion, but still assume that most people are religious -- and based on the dialogue on this thread, some people think it's advertising simply to mention one's lack of belief.

You can go to church and be agnostic. It's why I'm considering leaving the Episcopal Church. Christians in the church are few and far between. I never thought I'd say that!

The Episcopal church is full of agnostics. Some churches openly welcome them. But the service is still the same, with all the biblical readings and recitation of the creed. People are welcome to interpret it metaphorically if they like. Many Episcopalians and their clergy are highly educated and understand that the Bible is meant to be taken seriously, not literally.

Good point.

I do wonder how an agnostic or atheist feels comfortable reciting the creed.

I never assume that people who go to church believe in god. I know many church-going people who are agnostics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was raised as an atheist and it was not until I was 45 or so that I could say it and not worry about the implications.
The few times I was dumb enough to say that in public as a child, I took a lot of glares and verbal attacks.
Either I am more confident and don't care about what others think, or people are easier going about this, but it was very hard before.

Are you serious? Everyone in and around DC is agnostic/atheist. At least most of the people I know. OP, no one cares.

Not my experience at all and knowledge of simple demographics and church attendance would indicate that this is not accurate.

There are people in this area who don't care that much about religion, but still assume that most people are religious -- and based on the dialogue on this thread, some people think it's advertising simply to mention one's lack of belief.

You can go to church and be agnostic. It's why I'm considering leaving the Episcopal Church. Christians in the church are few and far between. I never thought I'd say that!

The Episcopal church is full of agnostics. Some churches openly welcome them. But the service is still the same, with all the biblical readings and recitation of the creed. People are welcome to interpret it metaphorically if they like. Many Episcopalians and their clergy are highly educated and understand that the Bible is meant to be taken seriously, not literally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was raised as an atheist and it was not until I was 45 or so that I could say it and not worry about the implications.
The few times I was dumb enough to say that in public as a child, I took a lot of glares and verbal attacks.
Either I am more confident and don't care about what others think, or people are easier going about this, but it was very hard before.

Are you serious? Everyone in and around DC is agnostic/atheist. At least most of the people I know. OP, no one cares.

Not my experience at all and knowledge of simple demographics and church attendance would indicate that this is not accurate.

There are people in this area who don't care that much about religion, but still assume that most people are religious -- and based on the dialogue on this thread, some people think it's advertising simply to mention one's lack of belief.

You can go to church and be agnostic. It's why I'm considering leaving the Episcopal Church. Christians in the church are few and far between. I never thought I'd say that!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I agree that evangelicals in the DC area get the eye rolling too. That is also wrong.
I like it when people say to atheists, "I don't care what you believe in, just as long as you believe in something"

Kidding right? I can't figure out what people mean when they say that -- something supernatural, no matter what it is? Why is that better than looking to the natural world for answers.

Yes. I was kidding about the second part.
Not kidding that it is wrong to bash evangelicals.

Eye rolling is a long way from bashing. I don't think evangelicals or any religious group should automatically be the target of prejudice. But I do think that opinions about evangelicals are more likely to be based on what some people who present themselves as evangelicals loudly and in some cases publicly say and do, not on a societal prejudice against them.

or, as in the case with atheists, false statements are often made in a vacuum because the remarks are not rebutted by people because they prefer not to draw attention to themselves. For instance, religious people have said things like "Atheists have no morals" with confidence -- because they've heard that at church perhaps, or just assumed it, because they think that morals come only from religion.

Or "Atheists are stupid (or arrogant) because they say there is no God, and there's no way they can know that."

Actually, atheists don't say that. They say that they don't believe in god or that there's a lack of evidence for God. They know very well that that you can't prove something that exists outside nature, whether it be the Judeo-Christian god or any other Gods from the past.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was raised as an atheist and it was not until I was 45 or so that I could say it and not worry about the implications.
The few times I was dumb enough to say that in public as a child, I took a lot of glares and verbal attacks.
Either I am more confident and don't care about what others think, or people are easier going about this, but it was very hard before.

Are you serious? Everyone in and around DC is agnostic/atheist. At least most of the people I know. OP, no one cares.

Not my experience at all and knowledge of simple demographics and church attendance would indicate that this is not accurate.

There are people in this area who don't care that much about religion, but still assume that most people are religious -- and based on the dialogue on this thread, some people think it's advertising simply to mention one's lack of belief.

Anonymous wrote:Was raised as an atheist and it was not until I was 45 or so that I could say it and not worry about the implications.
The few times I was dumb enough to say that in public as a child, I took a lot of glares and verbal attacks.
Either I am more confident and don't care about what others think, or people are easier going about this, but it was very hard before.

Are you serious? Everyone in and around DC is agnostic/atheist. At least most of the people I know. OP, no one cares.

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, but you're assuming it[lask of religious belief] comes up in conversation. And IME, it just doesn't. I don't consider someone saying, " I went to church on Sunday," an opening to talk about my views on god. I consider it an opportunity to talk about what we did over the weekend. So I would never reply, "I'm an atheist" to that statement, any more than I would say, "I don't like sushi." One has nothing to do with the other. Instead I would say, "I went running" or "I ran errands" or "we visited MIL."

On a very rare occasion, someone might ask if I go to church. Then I answer "no." I might expand, "we used to belong to a UU church, but I just found it such a hassle getting there. I prefer to read the paper on Sunday morning." But the question isn't about my belief in god, it's about my belonging to a religious community. If I belonged to some humanist group (which is actually what I perceive the UUs to be) or one of the secular groups mentioned above, I'd say that. I don't believe I've ever been asked by anyone if I go to church in a way that I found probing or judgmental or litmus test-like.

I'd say no more than once or twice in my adult life has anyone outside of my spouse or children talked to me about the existence of god. And then I say, "I don't believe."

It's true this is an issue that comes up more frequently for people living in religious communities or in the south. But I live in neither of those circumstances. It's also true that there are vegetarians living in meat eating places and looked down upon, but I don't feel like that makes it necessary for me to publicly wave the banner for vegetarians everywhere.

Neither would I and if you read carefully you'll see that I didn't suggest that at all.

However, some atheists might respond that way - because they do think someone saying they went to church is a way, at least in part, of saying they are religious -- this is not a big logical leap to make. And the atheist is so comfortable in their lack of belief to mention it in passing, just as they might say "Oh, I'm an opera lover" in response to someone mentioning that they had been to a rock concert over the week-end. It wouldn't be considered as pushing opera or denigrating rock lovers.

We're definitely not there yet when it comes to religion - and some other sensitive topics -- but we're getting there, I hope.

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, but you're assuming it comes up in conversation. And IME, it just doesn't. I don't consider someone saying, " I went to church on Sunday," an opening to talk about my views on god. I consider it an opportunity to talk about what we did over the weekend. So I would never reply, "I'm an atheist" to that statement, any more than I would say, "I don't like sushi." One has nothing to do with the other. Instead I would say, "I went running" or "I ran errands" or "we visited MIL."

On a very rare occasion, someone might ask if I go to church. Then I answer "no." I might expand, "we used to belong to a UU church, but I just found it such a hassle getting there. I prefer to read the paper on Sunday morning." But the question isn't about my belief in god, it's about my belonging to a religious community. If I belonged to some humanist group (which is actually what I perceive the UUs to be) or one of the secular groups mentioned above, I'd say that. I don't believe I've ever been asked by anyone if I go to church in a way that I found probing or judgmental or litmus test-like.

I'd say no more than once or twice in my adult life has anyone outside of my spouse or children talked to me about the existence of god. And then I say, "I don't believe."

It's true this is an issue that comes up more frequently for people living in religious communities or in the south. But I live in neither of those circumstances. It's also true that there are vegetarians living in meat eating places and looked down upon, but I don't feel like that makes it necessary for me to publicly wave the banner for vegetarians everywhere.

Correct -- but neither should a vegetarian (in my opinion) feel obliged to eat the meat served, or to put it on their plate and subtly avoid it or say they are just not hungry. In fact vegetarianism is a good example, because a few years ago, it was considered strange or rude to be a vegetarian, and a big problem for people hosting a meal. That has changed dramatically, with people now often asking if guests have specific food preferences and people who don't/can't eat certain foods taking care of their needs - and restaurants accommodating a variety of diets. People are not expected to quietly conform to a societal expectation and the expectation has changed.

The presence of vegetarians used to make some people very uncomfortable (I know, I am vegetarian) and they made all sorts of assumptions - like a vegetarian really hated their cooking or loved animals or had a strange medical condition or radical political views. That's all changed, but it wouldn't have if vegetarians had not identified themselves and people both meat-eating and vegetarian, had not talked about it openly. This is far from "waving a banner."

And there are more vegetarians now - it's not considered weird anymore. In fact it's considered to be a healthy option. People talk about trying vegetarianism, or being mainly vegetarian (except for turkey on Thanksgiving) or being a pecto-tarian (will eat fish, but not other meat). It may not be the most fascinating conversational material, but it's no longer socially unacceptable to talk about publicly. I'd like to see lack of religion go in the same direction. I see it happening and think it would happen faster if people who were already non-religious didn't perceive mentioning their views in context as waving a flag or advertising.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I agree that evangelicals in the DC area get the eye rolling too. That is also wrong.
I like it when people say to atheists, "I don't care what you believe in, just as long as you believe in something"

Kidding right? I can't figure out what people mean when they say that -- something supernatural, no matter what it is? Why is that better than looking to the natural world for answers.

Yes. I was kidding about the second part.
Not kidding that it is wrong to bash evangelicals.

Eye rolling is a long way from bashing. I don't think evangelicals or any religious group should automatically be the target of prejudice. But I do think that opinions about evangelicals are more likely to be based on what some people who present themselves as evangelicals loudly and in some cases publicly say and do, not on a societal prejudice against them.