hmm, based on these posts maybe OOB isn't code word for brown or poor, maybe it really is about you can't afford to live in my neighborhood (which is why op isn't bothered about being the unwanted OOB at Stoddard because she does feel she lives in the neighborhood). We lived in a crappy 2 bedroom condo IB for Eaton, and I can tell you people in my neighborhood knew we couldn't "really" afford to live there and treated us accordingly though we are white and hyper-educated with kids likely to do well when testing comes around in 3rd grade.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really can't help but laugh at the irony of the indignation expressed by OOB parents when confronted with the reality that most WOTP parents desire their kid to attend a true neighborhood school. Because in reality it is the OOB parents who don't think their neighborhood kids are good enough, otherwise why would you not attend your IB school. See how that works? On one hand you are saying "we are just like you, so what difference does it make where we live." But your actions are telling how you really feel. Think we need more honesty here.

I don't understand the point that you are trying to make. It is true that, for whatever reasons, OOB families have decided that their neighborhood schools are not a good fit. I don't think anyone disputes that. There are also plenty of families WOTP who have similarly decided that their neighborhood schools are not the best choice. Lots of factors go into decisions about schools. But, what OOB families get upset about is not the school choices that others make, but rather the belief by some that OOB students are by definition negative factors in a school. It is particularly strange to suggest that OOB students are a significant downside to a school except when your child is the OOB student. There is a disconnect in thinking that because of your desire for your children to attend a neighborhood school, you are going to avoid your neighborhood school and instead choose a school that is not a neighborhood school.

There are 2 draws to WOTP DCPS schools - (1) academic achievement and (2) community centers. Large numbers of OOB kids may, or may not, affect academic achievement. But they absolutely do affect the school as the center of the community. A neighborhood school with 50% OOB kids isn't a neighborhood school.

That is not necessarily true. If the school's population was cut in half so that only the inbound students remained, would that make it a neighborhood school? It would still be the same number of inbound students. I think the absolute number is more important to community-building then the percentage. I still don't get why the fact that "it is not a neighborhood school" is a reason for going to a school that makes no pretensions at being a neighborhood school.

The point is that many/most people like neighborhood schools for the feeling of community they provide, and people, like OP, may be looking for that in a school. Eaton is set up to be a neighborhood school though it is not precisely because it has such a high OOB population. That is a detractor to many people.

And yes, when 50% of the school peels off across the city at 3 pm is does affect the ability of the school to be the center of the community. 50% of the parents have no stake in the area, aren't milling around the school park after pick up and drop off, don't care about neighborhood issues etc. They also are far less likely to be able to attend all the stuff after hours that help make a neighborhood school what it is.

It's fine if you don't consider the neighborhood-ness of a school to be a perk, but many people do.

Wow. The sanctimony. Please do not speak for me. We have attended out wotp Dcps as OOB for the better part of a decade and we are extremely involved in our beloved school and the neighboring community. We spend more time as a family in the neighborhood where my children's school is located than any other part of the city and less you want to count sleeping hours. We not only join in on every school event but often help to plan them and volunteer to run them. It is about relationships. Certainly I can see that it's often easier or more common to facilitate relationships with the person who lives down the street but that isn't necessarily a more valid or authentic relationship. The majority of my children's friends or school friends and that means we spend a ton of non-school time with them and around them. And some of those school friends live in other parts of the city, not in my school's neighborhood nor my residential neighborhood. They are all part of my family's community. If you prefer to value the community provided to you through proximity, that is your right. But do not try and define the value of my relationship to my children's school by trying to diminish it.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really can't help but laugh at the irony of the indignation expressed by OOB parents when confronted with the reality that most WOTP parents desire their kid to attend a true neighborhood school. Because in reality it is the OOB parents who don't think their neighborhood kids are good enough, otherwise why would you not attend your IB school. See how that works? On one hand you are saying "we are just like you, so what difference does it make where we live." But your actions are telling how you really feel. Think we need more honesty here.

I don't understand the point that you are trying to make. It is true that, for whatever reasons, OOB families have decided that their neighborhood schools are not a good fit. I don't think anyone disputes that. There are also plenty of families WOTP who have similarly decided that their neighborhood schools are not the best choice. Lots of factors go into decisions about schools. But, what OOB families get upset about is not the school choices that others make, but rather the belief by some that OOB students are by definition negative factors in a school. It is particularly strange to suggest that OOB students are a significant downside to a school except when your child is the OOB student. There is a disconnect in thinking that because of your desire for your children to attend a neighborhood school, you are going to avoid your neighborhood school and instead choose a school that is not a neighborhood school.

There are 2 draws to WOTP DCPS schools - (1) academic achievement and (2) community centers. Large numbers of OOB kids may, or may not, affect academic achievement. But they absolutely do affect the school as the center of the community. A neighborhood school with 50% OOB kids isn't a neighborhood school.

That is not necessarily true. If the school's population was cut in half so that only the inbound students remained, would that make it a neighborhood school? It would still be the same number of inbound students. I think the absolute number is more important to community-building then the percentage. I still don't get why the fact that "it is not a neighborhood school" is a reason for going to a school that makes no pretensions at being a neighborhood school.

The point is that many/most people like neighborhood schools for the feeling of community they provide, and people, like OP, may be looking for that in a school. Eaton is set up to be a neighborhood school though it is not precisely because it has such a high OOB population. That is a detractor to many people.

And yes, when 50% of the school peels off across the city at 3 pm is does affect the ability of the school to be the center of the community. 50% of the parents have no stake in the area, aren't milling around the school park after pick up and drop off, don't care about neighborhood issues etc. They also are far less likely to be able to attend all the stuff after hours that help make a neighborhood school what it is.

It's fine if you don't consider the neighborhood-ness of a school to be a perk, but many people do.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really can't help but laugh at the irony of the indignation expressed by OOB parents when confronted with the reality that most WOTP parents desire their kid to attend a true neighborhood school. Because in reality it is the OOB parents who don't think their neighborhood kids are good enough, otherwise why would you not attend your IB school. See how that works? On one hand you are saying "we are just like you, so what difference does it make where we live." But your actions are telling how you really feel. Think we need more honesty here.

I don't understand the point that you are trying to make. It is true that, for whatever reasons, OOB families have decided that their neighborhood schools are not a good fit. I don't think anyone disputes that. There are also plenty of families WOTP who have similarly decided that their neighborhood schools are not the best choice. Lots of factors go into decisions about schools. But, what OOB families get upset about is not the school choices that others make, but rather the belief by some that OOB students are by definition negative factors in a school. It is particularly strange to suggest that OOB students are a significant downside to a school except when your child is the OOB student. There is a disconnect in thinking that because of your desire for your children to attend a neighborhood school, you are going to avoid your neighborhood school and instead choose a school that is not a neighborhood school.

There are 2 draws to WOTP DCPS schools - (1) academic achievement and (2) community centers. Large numbers of OOB kids may, or may not, affect academic achievement. But they absolutely do affect the school as the center of the community. A neighborhood school with 50% OOB kids isn't a neighborhood school.

That is not necessarily true. If the school's population was cut in half so that only the inbound students remained, would that make it a neighborhood school? It would still be the same number of inbound students. I think the absolute number is more important to community-building then the percentage. I still don't get why the fact that "it is not a neighborhood school" is a reason for going to a school that makes no pretensions at being a neighborhood school.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really can't help but laugh at the irony of the indignation expressed by OOB parents when confronted with the reality that most WOTP parents desire their kid to attend a true neighborhood school. Because in reality it is the OOB parents who don't think their neighborhood kids are good enough, otherwise why would you not attend your IB school. See how that works? On one hand you are saying "we are just like you, so what difference does it make where we live." But your actions are telling how you really feel. Think we need more honesty here.

I don't understand the point that you are trying to make. It is true that, for whatever reasons, OOB families have decided that their neighborhood schools are not a good fit. I don't think anyone disputes that. There are also plenty of families WOTP who have similarly decided that their neighborhood schools are not the best choice. Lots of factors go into decisions about schools. But, what OOB families get upset about is not the school choices that others make, but rather the belief by some that OOB students are by definition negative factors in a school. It is particularly strange to suggest that OOB students are a significant downside to a school except when your child is the OOB student. There is a disconnect in thinking that because of your desire for your children to attend a neighborhood school, you are going to avoid your neighborhood school and instead choose a school that is not a neighborhood school.

Come on now. There may be plenty of WOTP kids that don't attend their DCPS neighborhood school. But, they do so either because they want a specialized charter program (language, science, etc.) or because they have means and can afford a private education with a teacher-student ration of 8-1 or because they are special needs. I defy anyone to find a JKLMM that lotteried into another traditional DCPS elementary school.

The EOTP students who lottery into WOTP schools don't do so for "whatever reason." They do so for a very specific reason. And, if you are being honest, that reason is they believe the kids attending WOTP schools are better prepared. Which is completely understandable. The test scores support this.

Again, I am finding it difficult to discern the point you are trying to make. We agree that plenty of WOTP families choose not to attend their neighborhood schools. You can defy people to do anything that you wish to defy them to do, but this specific example is pointless and not relevant to the discussion. So, I at least, will decline the challenge.

As for why EOTP students who lottery into WOTP schools do so, you are assuming mind-reading abilities that I am doubtful are actually within your capability. School choices are often difficult, complex, and personal. But, lets assume that it is because test scores suggest that schools WOTP do a better job preparing students. That is an objective data point that can (or perhaps cannot) be supported by actual facts. Contrast that to the mindset that I criticized that holds that OOB students are automatically a negative factor in a school. That is purely subjective, frequently based on unfair prejudices, and not infrequently wrong.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really can't help but laugh at the irony of the indignation expressed by OOB parents when confronted with the reality that most WOTP parents desire their kid to attend a true neighborhood school. Because in reality it is the OOB parents who don't think their neighborhood kids are good enough, otherwise why would you not attend your IB school. See how that works? On one hand you are saying "we are just like you, so what difference does it make where we live." But your actions are telling how you really feel. Think we need more honesty here.

I don't understand the point that you are trying to make. It is true that, for whatever reasons, OOB families have decided that their neighborhood schools are not a good fit. I don't think anyone disputes that. There are also plenty of families WOTP who have similarly decided that their neighborhood schools are not the best choice. Lots of factors go into decisions about schools. But, what OOB families get upset about is not the school choices that others make, but rather the belief by some that OOB students are by definition negative factors in a school. It is particularly strange to suggest that OOB students are a significant downside to a school except when your child is the OOB student. There is a disconnect in thinking that because of your desire for your children to attend a neighborhood school, you are going to avoid your neighborhood school and instead choose a school that is not a neighborhood school.

There are 2 draws to WOTP DCPS schools - (1) academic achievement and (2) community centers. Large numbers of OOB kids may, or may not, affect academic achievement. But they absolutely do affect the school as the center of the community. A neighborhood school with 50% OOB kids isn't a neighborhood school.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really can't help but laugh at the irony of the indignation expressed by OOB parents when confronted with the reality that most WOTP parents desire their kid to attend a true neighborhood school. Because in reality it is the OOB parents who don't think their neighborhood kids are good enough, otherwise why would you not attend your IB school. See how that works? On one hand you are saying "we are just like you, so what difference does it make where we live." But your actions are telling how you really feel. Think we need more honesty here.

I don't understand the point that you are trying to make. It is true that, for whatever reasons, OOB families have decided that their neighborhood schools are not a good fit. I don't think anyone disputes that. There are also plenty of families WOTP who have similarly decided that their neighborhood schools are not the best choice. Lots of factors go into decisions about schools. But, what OOB families get upset about is not the school choices that others make, but rather the belief by some that OOB students are by definition negative factors in a school. It is particularly strange to suggest that OOB students are a significant downside to a school except when your child is the OOB student. There is a disconnect in thinking that because of your desire for your children to attend a neighborhood school, you are going to avoid your neighborhood school and instead choose a school that is not a neighborhood school.

Come on now. There may be plenty of WOTP kids that don't attend their DCPS neighborhood school. But, they do so either because they want a specialized charter program (language, science, etc.) or because they have means and can afford a private education with a teacher-student ration of 8-1 or because they are special needs. I defy anyone to find a JKLMM that lotteried into another traditional DCPS elementary school.

The EOTP students who lottery into WOTP schools don't do so for "whatever reason." They do so for a very specific reason. And, if you are being honest, that reason is they believe the kids attending WOTP schools are better prepared. Which is completely understandable. The test scores support this.

Anonymous wrote:
I really can't help but laugh at the irony of the indignation expressed by OOB parents when confronted with the reality that most WOTP parents desire their kid to attend a true neighborhood school. Because in reality it is the OOB parents who don't think their neighborhood kids are good enough, otherwise why would you not attend your IB school. See how that works? On one hand you are saying "we are just like you, so what difference does it make where we live." But your actions are telling how you really feel. Think we need more honesty here.

I don't understand the point that you are trying to make. It is true that, for whatever reasons, OOB families have decided that their neighborhood schools are not a good fit. I don't think anyone disputes that. There are also plenty of families WOTP who have similarly decided that their neighborhood schools are not the best choice. Lots of factors go into decisions about schools. But, what OOB families get upset about is not the school choices that others make, but rather the belief by some that OOB students are by definition negative factors in a school. It is particularly strange to suggest that OOB students are a significant downside to a school except when your child is the OOB student. There is a disconnect in thinking that because of your desire for your children to attend a neighborhood school, you are going to avoid your neighborhood school and instead choose a school that is not a neighborhood school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're OOB at Eaton, as are 5 other families within a one block radius of my MT Pleasant home. We participate in all Eaton functions, donate fully to the HSA, and have regular playdates - both at our house and IB Eaton families' houses.

DH and I both have multiple advanced degrees and work in interesting, rewarding fields.

And - bonus! - we're white! It chaps my hide that we're considered - by some - to be "undesirable" at Hardy. At the same time it makes me laugh at the sheer ridiculousness of the code words used on DCUM.

I can see making a slight argument for a more community feel school - all things being equal, I'd chose a community school over a higher OOB population school, too. But all things aren't equal. And all things aren't even as many so called experts on DCUM think they are.

It's probably not as easy to get to Eaton compared to when Klingle Rd was open!

I really can't help but laugh at the irony of the indignation expressed by OOB parents when confronted with the reality that most WOTP parents desire their kid to attend a true neighborhood school. Because in reality it is the OOB parents who don't think their neighborhood kids are good enough, otherwise why would you not attend your IB school. See how that works? On one hand you are saying "we are just like you, so what difference does it make where we live." But your actions are telling how you really feel. Think we need more honesty here.

Anonymous wrote:Eaton is 45% IB. For the record, Eaton (and Hearst) performs just as well as JKLM schools in testing in many comparisons while having more diverse community.

Is "diverse" code for racially mixed? Because there are schools in NW that skew white but are quite diverse with international families, languages, etc. it's important to consider diversity in all its aspects, including of course, economic. Because when you consider DCPS overall, African-Americans are the overwhelming majority of students, so in purely race-based terms, in DC everyone else is the "diversity"!

Eaton is 45% IB. For the record, Eaton (and Hearst) performs just as well as JKLM schools in testing in many comparisons while having more diverse community.

Anonymous wrote:We're OOB at Eaton, as are 5 other families within a one block radius of my MT Pleasant home. We participate in all Eaton functions, donate fully to the HSA, and have regular playdates - both at our house and IB Eaton families' houses.

DH and I both have multiple advanced degrees and work in interesting, rewarding fields.

And - bonus! - we're white! It chaps my hide that we're considered - by some - to be "undesirable" at Hardy. At the same time it makes me laugh at the sheer ridiculousness of the code words used on DCUM.

I can see making a slight argument for a more community feel school - all things being equal, I'd chose a community school over a higher OOB population school, too. But all things aren't equal. And all things aren't even as many so called experts on DCUM think they are.

It's probably not as easy to get to Eaton compared to when Klingle Rd was open!

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way Hearst is much worse. I did go to an open house last year. The OOB ratio is really high there. I was very surprised. Did not at all reflect the neighborhood population.

We are one of the OOB families that is dragging Hearst down. But, just imagine what we would do to real estate values if we moved inbounds.

IB Hearst family. We are happy to have any all families and I never hear on the playground any discussion of so and so being IB or OOB (except for Jeff, because, well). For my money, neighborhood kids are great and our class is at least 45 percent IB, but those families driving across the city to give their kids a better education, those are committed, involved families that truly help make our school awesome.

We're OOB at Eaton, as are 5 other families within a one block radius of my MT Pleasant home. We participate in all Eaton functions, donate fully to the HSA, and have regular playdates - both at our house and IB Eaton families' houses.

DH and I both have multiple advanced degrees and work in interesting, rewarding fields.

And - bonus! - we're white! It chaps my hide that we're considered - by some - to be "undesirable" at Hardy. At the same time it makes me laugh at the sheer ridiculousness of the code words used on DCUM.

I can see making a slight argument for a more community feel school - all things being equal, I'd chose a community school over a higher OOB population school, too. But all things aren't equal. And all things aren't even as many so called experts on DCUM think they are.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way Hearst is much worse. I did go to an open house last year. The OOB ratio is really high there. I was very surprised. Did not at all reflect the neighborhood population.

We are one of the OOB families that is dragging Hearst down. But, just imagine what we would do to real estate values if we moved inbounds.

We're OOB at Stoddert too and it must suck for the community how involved we are.