Anonymous wrote:OP I agree w/ much of what 17:51 said.

FWIW, I believe that you are quite limited in what you can do - given everything you have described. I have a sufficiently screwed up family myself that helps me totally empathize with your situation.

So my advice is to save yourself. Accept that you cannot force any of these adults to do what you think should seem obvious. Accept that given two parents and your brother who are all completely against everything you suggest, you actually can't do anything except make yourself miserable. And then let yourself off the hook.

For right now your brother is safe and cared for. At some point in the future that won't be the case, but you don't know how soon (or not) that will happen, and you don't know exactly what that will look like. (Your mother could outlive your father by 10 or 20 years and keep up the dynamics w/ your brother that whole time. Your brother could spiral in some way that triggers something that changes the situation. Etc...)

Let it go as much as possible. Go find someone you can talk with about how YOU can survive your family reality, and how you can avoid losing yourself or your depriving your own nuclear family of what they deserve, in this process.

You can also (with your husband) prepare for your worst case scenario = whatever that is. Have a plan in place that you can activate if that scenario happens, and then put it aside until it's needed. Maybe that's a list of critical phone numbers and agencies to call as soon as your parents die, maybe it's a little stash of savings to keep your brother in his home until or if you can make other arrangements, maybe it's just a good supportive therapist for you with whom you build a relationship now so you can seek support there anytime you need it.

And go live your life. Don't run the risk of still being agonized or stressed about all of this 5 or 10 years from now, only to discover that nothing has changed and you wasted time and energy that could have been far better spent on people you can help and things you can enjoy.

Hang in there. Don't become a martyr to your parent' or brother's cause.

This is excellent advice, OP. It sounds to me as if you have tried very hard to help your brother and your parents and your brother won't let you. It's time to accept that they are rejecting your help and take care of yourself.

Anonymous wrote:Hi there OP. You may have read my posts before. I am the 52y.o brother of a 47y.o schizophrenic, bipolar, OCD sister. My sister is actually pretty good, takes her meds, etc. On diability. Unable to save a dime. The usual stuff. But, I know all her friends and folks in the local (fairfax) mental health system. Quite a few of them think they are perfectly fine, or go off their meds regularly.

I cannot offer you advice on how to plan for the future, per se. But, there is one thing that is missing from all these responses, that I think might give you a foothold into his world. Keep in touch!! And every single time you talk with him, or go to dinner or anything say these important words: "I love you very much. We are family." I hope you are already doing that, but with my sister, that's how we broke through. Not just showing love, but saying it all the time.

Yes, great advice. I try and sometimes he stands me up but he generally responds to email.


FWIW a diagnosis (which he has- depression, PTSD, acquired personality disorder-- doesn't get you disability benefits if you won't release your medical records or submit to the interview. This is a competent adult with a near-genius IQ who presents as normal until you learn about his life and find out his wealth is in his head.

He certainly won't submit while my parents are supporting him. As long as my mother's alive she will sabotage anything she perceives as an attempt to help secure his independence from her. He would keep a secret from her while he's feeling compliant, then go tell her when he feels insecure about leaving her nest.

For someone who mentioned a trust -- I don't have money to support him and my parents won't discuss how they're handling theirs. Dad doesn't care and mother won't acknowledge that there's anything wrong.

I might have to get this done once he's got no choice other than disability payments or homelessness.

Hi there OP. You may have read my posts before. I am the 52y.o brother of a 47y.o schizophrenic, bipolar, OCD sister. My sister is actually pretty good, takes her meds, etc. On diability. Unable to save a dime. The usual stuff. But, I know all her friends and folks in the local (fairfax) mental health system. Quite a few of them think they are perfectly fine, or go off their meds regularly.

I cannot offer you advice on how to plan for the future, per se. But, there is one thing that is missing from all these responses, that I think might give you a foothold into his world. Keep in touch!! And every single time you talk with him, or go to dinner or anything say these important words: "I love you very much. We are family." I hope you are already doing that, but with my sister, that's how we broke through. Not just showing love, but saying it all the time.

As someone who has watched my father take care of his brother, you're in the midst of a thankless and never ending task. My uncle, at least, is aware of his needs.

Presuming the professional is game for this and that you're open to deceit, tell your brother you hired an oral historian to do a family history before your parents pass. Social worker or doctor takes the interview and gets you the information you need.

*best

Might be the only way to get him out and get him help if you need to get him a diagnosis

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He will probably end up on Disability, which will give him money to pay bills.

This requires that OP's brother acknowledges he has a mental health condition, gets a diagnosis, is willing to apply for disability, and then gets approved. Right now it doesn't sound like any of that is the case. Unless he becomes a threat to himself or others, OP won't be able to compel him to do anything.

He just has to allow for the process. There are plenty of people receiving disability who don't understand that they have a mental health condition that requires it. Getting a social worker involved will help give you and your parents an idea of where things may stand.

You can't get SSDI just by being lazy. PP is right - you need an actual diagnosis. If he has schizophrenia, extreme ADD, or something diagnosable, then you need a psychiatrist to document it, and even neuro-psych exam results. Then you have to prove he can't do any job at all, like washing dishes. Most SSDI applications are rejected at the initial stage and I think maybe only 1/3 ultimately get benefits.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can go online and file for him. Then help him with the paperwork and just take him or have you parents take him to the doctor's appointments. I did it for a family member. It can take years to get disability so do it now. Then, you apply for low income housing.

I tried this for over a year. He refused. He will not go to any appointment or allow anyone to visit and get the process started. I appreciate how bizarre and unthinkable that is but there is no way to get him out the door to an appointment and if he won't show up they won't just start cutting checks.

I don't think he'd even cash the checks. He's a conservative too and believes he's a self-made wealthy guy who just needs the right lawyer to get his assets back and that the government would charge him with fraud if he "pretended" to be poor. But he has nothing. Not even a credit card. My mother gave him a gas card and keeps a small bank account for him in her name.

Ok I'm making myself too upset. Lord. It's been like watching someone die for years. Or the walking dead.

So lie to him about why you guys are going out...tell him you are meeting the Nigerian prince that has been tying up his assets for so long to finally settle the issue =S...idk tbh it sounds like it would be difficult.

Has he already been formally diagnosed? From what you've written is sounds like he has.

PP has a good point. Sometimes it's better to just go with the delusions and or use them. No sense in arguing with a senile old man or woman who thinks it's 1945 and wants to celebrate the end of WW2 or thinks a loaf of bread is their baby girl. Let your brother think the psychiatrist he's meeting with is the beys attorney in the state.

OP,

These resources may be of use to you:
http://www.nami.org/Find-Support/Family-Members-and-Caregivers

http://astore.amazon.com/thesibsuppro-20/detail/1606130137

If your brother is suffering from mental illness and is refusing support talk to a advocate or lawyer about how to get medical power of attorney. This will allow you to get him health care/treatment if he refuses.

Is there any way to get a doctor to come to him? Perhaps in the guise of meeting a friend? That way, you don't have to trick him into going to a doctor's office.

I feel some of your concern. My brother is actually on disability now; it took my mom years of work to make that happen. Fortunately, my parents are aware of his issues and willing to face them head on--meeting with an estate attorney to set up trusts, etc.--so that I won't have to make all that happen.

But yes, start thinking about plans. Maybe visit a therapist yourself to talk through some things so that you know what you may face. And good luck! These kind of situations are not easy.

OP, I have read the whole thread. People who do not deal with a delusional person on a regular basis really do not get it. It makes YOU crazy, and oftentimes, the only way to deal with it looks like enabling. My mother is deeply delusional and I have seen my aunt, a trained PHYSICIAN, give up on "fixing" whatever is wrong with her and just go along with her delusion, taking care of her financially and just accepting everything else. You could, of course, just let things go and live your life, and in that case your brother will probably end up homeless. I guess if that is something you can live with it is an option. Two things-

1. You are being too hard on your parents. It sounds like you haven't really accepted that he is mentally ill, and that dealing with him as if he is a mentally healthy person (i.e. making rational, reasonable arguments as to why he should do X, Y, Z) is NOT going to work, no matter how many times you do so. Dealing with a delusional person is extremely, extremely difficult. There is literally nothing you can say or do to bring them down to reality. You HAVE to play along, because this person is not living in the same universe as you. Your parents are most likely not "enabling" him but are dealing with him the only way they can. Pretend that you are dealing with a child- a very large, grumpy, crazy child. Put yourself in your parent's shoes, it is a horrible way to spend your retirement. His condition is also most likely deteriorating as the years go on, so that is another depressing thing.

2. Plan, but don't worry. Worrying is not going to get you anywhere. Try to come up with some sort of plan for what happens when your parents can no longer take care of your brother, just don't expect their cooperation. As long as your brother has the security blanket of his parents, he likely will not cooperate with you. However, once his circumstances change, you will find that he will most likely contort his delusions so that he can keep a roof over his head. And you will have to play along, saying "oh yes bro, since the court system is holding all your money, I guess you have to move into this apartment now! Damn those lawyers!" That's basically how it is.

Be prepared for when your parents pass that war might break out. If he's ill, he may think you stole the inheritance from him, when there probably isn't any inheritance. You're assuming you'll need to take care of him, but it sounds more likely he'll try to sue you.

If you live in MD, you only need three doctors' word to declare him temporarily incompetent. That could buy you enough time to get his legal affairs started while he receives basic treatment.

I'm so sorry OP. Does he have a criminal record? Do you think he is a danger to others, or just himself?

If he does commit a crime, at least you might be able to get court ordered treatment and medication.

Will your parents transfer the power of attorney for him to you (taking effect after they die)? Do they have anything like that in writing?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He will probably end up on Disability, which will give him money to pay bills.

Disability is not going to come looking for him to get him enrolled, this man is going to have to get a little involved in his own needs

Also, disability pays squat so of parents don't have much assets it's going to be rough road for living.

Get money into trust now or have them buy him a cheap ass house in Detroit or Florida where houses go for $70k. Then he will have no assets but a place to live so qualify for ssi. If he ends up with non-trust cash then it will prevent ssi until he fritters it away and ends up in section 8. If you do have a trust, who is executor? You? You want to control and direct you business-man wanna be brother how he spends his money? That will be interesting role.

And know what, being a risk to yourself doesn't get you much but 7 day hold at county psych ward. My sibling has several attempts but once they say 'I'm ok' out they go.

Isn't that the truth. My sibling has been hospitalized many times involuntarily - and is smart enough to know that if he does not give permission for the hospital to speak to anyone (including family) then no one knows the real story of how messed up he is. I have called, written letters - no release, no communication. Most broken system I know and there is no way to get people like him the help they need. 3-7 day maximum and back to square one.

Just wanted to let you know you are not alone. I am terrified of what will happen to my mentally ill sibling who is younger than me by over a decade. My parents are also in their 60s/70s and are unprepared. Accepting the limitations of your situation and creating your own support network will be key. I have found an amazing therapist who has helped me process my grief (loss of a healthy sibling relationship), anger (at my parents enabling) and shame of how crazy my family is. My worst nightmare is ruining all the good things I have going in my life for something that will never change. Good luck.