OP again. I am also concerned about demographics in our center classes. I surely wish for a more uniform diversity, but am hearing that is not the case in AAP classes under Oakton high pyramid. Any parental inputs on AAP class make up?

OP here. Tried to read all the posts, but am even more perplexed than ever regarding decision making. We still have a long road ahead of us and definitely have tons to learn about the functioning of FCPS. I wish people would share information. I have tried to approach 1-2 parents at our center of 3rd and 4th graders, but they are not that forthcoming with information. Probably, I will tour the school and find out more that way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't send your two kids to different schools. That will be their predominate memory - that they were so different from each other, they couldn't even go to the same school.

Don't do this to kids

That's ridiculous! My kids go to different schools (one for AAP, the other not). They do not harbor any resentment -- unless you count the fact that the AAP kid resents that he has more work than the non-AAP kid.

Not the PP, but I think that's wishful thinking on your part. Have you ever seriously wondered what your non-AAP child thinks (not says) about the fact that his sibling gets to go to a different school, but s/he does not?

My non AAP kid talks about it all the time with me. The younger sibking is happy to be at the base school. Kid loves math and is in the same advanced math program as the center sibling was in, and on the same middle school math trajectory. Kid hates writing and is happy not to be at the center where they write more and do caesars English. Kid likes being at the base school with most of the kids friends. A couple of close friends went to center and kid still does activities with them. The non AAP happy to talk about the center and make suggestions to the AAP friends of activities that older sibling really enjoyed.

My non AAP kid is not jealous in the least of older AAP sibling or AAP friends. In fact, when I asked if kid wanted to try to apply for the center next year, kid thought about it for a minute and gave a firm no, for all the reasons mentioned above. There is one activity that makes kid want the center a little but not enough to make the kid jealous or want to switch schools.

I think if I were a parent like you who was obsessed with and insanely jealous of AAP then perhaps the non AAP kid would feel bad about school or be jealous as well. But with most normal parents who value their kids as individuals with different needs, and who don't obsess about who is or is not in AAP, their kids will not really care beyond perhaps an initial disappointment at not seeing friends at school daily.

Oh, ok. I see you don't have two kids (one AAP and one Gen Ed) who both attend a center as their base school. Perhaps if you did, your Gen Ed child's experience would be vastly different from what you describe above. When GE kids have to attend centers, they see many of their friends from K-2 moving into AAP - but not them. They come home crying and upset, not understanding why they aren't in class with their best friends anymore (who, remember, still attend the same school), and why there are so many kids in the AAP classes but so few in General Ed, with them.

So you see, since your non-AAP kid obviously doesn't have to attend a center (and is fortunate not to have to), they have no reason to feel bad about themselves. Those kids who DO have centers as their base schools, see this dynamic every single day, and guess what? It's no fun at all to be in their shoes. If it makes you feel better to label parents who don't like center schools as "obsessed and insanely jealous (???)," then knock yourself out. I'm sure it's easier to insult parents who have actual concerns than to really try putting yourself in their shoes for a moment and imagining how your non-AAP kid might feel if s/he had to go to a school in which s/he felt inferior every single day.

Your GE child clearly has some issues-- either inherently, or because of your reactions. The fact is in FCPS kids don't get to be in the same class as their bestie year in and year out. It's a crap shoot. And not all kids are going to get the same opportunities growing up. What happens when your DC misses the travel soccer cut and her bestie does not? Or doesn't get chosen for a varsity sport, or a music ensemble or an acadEric competition team-- but bestie does? I guess we could eliminate all these things to spare your DCs feelings. Or you could teach your child resilience, help her recognize and be proud of her own strengths, and stop insisting that everyone get a participation trophy.

Oh for God's sake. Read, why don't you. The previous post clearly stated that most of the kids are moved into AAP, with very few remaining in Gen Ed. We're not talking about one particular best friend, obviously. But continue twisting words to suit your own purposes and diminish the experiences of others.

First, more than one person is responding to you and we ARE reading what you wrote. Now, you're telling me that MOST of the kids in 2nd grade were moved into AAP classes at your center school? This CAN'T be true. My DD transferred from our base school to our center school. There were 8 ESs that fed into her center AAP, so there's no way that the MAJORITY of your TCs (thanks for that pp - cute) class could have moved into the AAP classes. There would have been no room for kids coming from other ESs.

You seem like a dramatic person, so my guess is that is where TC gets it from. She sees you upset and over-reacting about the kids that moved and she's stressing about it. Ooooor, she isn't really upset about it at all and you're the one upset that she didn't get in. I can imagine that it's tough to be around the kids and parents that have been with you since K and you thought your DD would get in and then she didn't. Did you express that opinion to some of the parents and now you're embarrassed?

I would have only said something if I KNEW my kid was going to get in, hands down, no questions......otherwise....awkwaaaard....

Btw, we have friends with kids in the center school as their base school and they think you're full of it.

My goodness... who's the hostile one? That's quite a bit of presumption (and vitriol) on your part, all of which is deeply incorrect and none of which is worth responding to. Other than, that's some imagination you have.

No imagination needed and there's absolutely nothing hostile about this post at all. Most of it is actually fact, some questions, with a presumption thrown in that was clearly identified along with the question. Vitriol...haha...really? Calling someone out on their dramatics isn't harsh. It's simply that, calling someone out on their dramatics.

Wow. Nice blind spot you have.

Anonymous wrote:I am sure we lost the OP a long way back. We moved to the center school and so glad we did. The hostility of having one class with all these angry parents buzzing around was not pleasant. At the center school there are many who are in the same classes and many who are not -- so its more even. Whether they will get rid of the AAP program altogether, doubtful.

Our experience as well. The politics of LLIV, with one "special" class that stayed together each year and always ended up being much larger or smaller than the others? Toxic. And very unhappy, vocal Gen Ed Parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ummm. ALL kids take music and art during elementary school. As to the other programs you mentioned: band, strings, chorus, immersion, HS athletics, pupil placing - all of these could (and should) either be scaled back or have a "pay to play" fee associated with them. Why should AAP be any different?

Additionally, special ed is something certain kids REQUIRE and as such, should certainly have access to those services. AAP is not special ed, nor should it be treated as such. AAP is merely enrichment, and should be administered to either everyone or no one.

One example of an abolish AAP PP. If you actually read the thread, not the only one.

Wrong. This person was saying AAP should be available to all, or to no one. Or it should be fee-based. Both of which are entirely reasonable suggestions.

AAP available to all doesn't meet the VA definition of required, state mandated gifted education. It's open honors-- not differentiation based on academic ability.

Anonymous wrote:

I'm new to the discussion here, but do not understand the segregation of groups of friends comment. My DS is now in second grade, and all the kids have gotten shuffled each year. So far, he has only been in the same class with 1 other kid all three years, and only a handful of past K/first grade fellow students. So far, each year, he is with more kids that have not been in a class with him than have been in a class with him. I think there are 5 classes per grade. Are there other ES that have less classes per grade or don't mix up the kids each year? And yes, he sees his past classmates in specials and in outside activities. I fully expect the same mixing in third grade, regardless of where he goes (LLIV, GE or AAP center).

Does your child attend a center as his base school? If so, and if he remains in GE next year rather than AAP, then get back to us and let us know how he likes school. Attending a center as a GE student is completely different than attending a regular base school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



How would that work for a kid that needs this across the academic spectrum? Would they literally be by themselves or with just a few kids for most of the day (all academic subjects)?

This is why LLIV could work in some areas of the County, like McLean, Vienna, and Herndon/Chantilly area, but not in others. A one size fits the whole county approach is a bad idea.

+1000

THANK YOU!

This is public school, not private, feel free to go elsewhere if you don't like a single solution

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



How would that work for a kid that needs this across the academic spectrum? Would they literally be by themselves or with just a few kids for most of the day (all academic subjects)?

This is why LLIV could work in some areas of the County, like McLean, Vienna, and Herndon/Chantilly area, but not in others. A one size fits the whole county approach is a bad idea.

+1000

THANK YOU!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't send your two kids to different schools. That will be their predominate memory - that they were so different from each other, they couldn't even go to the same school.

Don't do this to kids

That's ridiculous! My kids go to different schools (one for AAP, the other not). They do not harbor any resentment -- unless you count the fact that the AAP kid resents that he has more work than the non-AAP kid.

Not the PP, but I think that's wishful thinking on your part. Have you ever seriously wondered what your non-AAP child thinks (not says) about the fact that his sibling gets to go to a different school, but s/he does not?

My non AAP kid talks about it all the time with me. The younger sibking is happy to be at the base school. Kid loves math and is in the same advanced math program as the center sibling was in, and on the same middle school math trajectory. Kid hates writing and is happy not to be at the center where they write more and do caesars English. Kid likes being at the base school with most of the kids friends. A couple of close friends went to center and kid still does activities with them. The non AAP happy to talk about the center and make suggestions to the AAP friends of activities that older sibling really enjoyed.

My non AAP kid is not jealous in the least of older AAP sibling or AAP friends. In fact, when I asked if kid wanted to try to apply for the center next year, kid thought about it for a minute and gave a firm no, for all the reasons mentioned above. There is one activity that makes kid want the center a little but not enough to make the kid jealous or want to switch schools.

I think if I were a parent like you who was obsessed with and insanely jealous of AAP then perhaps the non AAP kid would feel bad about school or be jealous as well. But with most normal parents who value their kids as individuals with different needs, and who don't obsess about who is or is not in AAP, their kids will not really care beyond perhaps an initial disappointment at not seeing friends at school daily.

Oh, ok. I see you don't have two kids (one AAP and one Gen Ed) who both attend a center as their base school. Perhaps if you did, your Gen Ed child's experience would be vastly different from what you describe above. When GE kids have to attend centers, they see many of their friends from K-2 moving into AAP - but not them. They come home crying and upset, not understanding why they aren't in class with their best friends anymore (who, remember, still attend the same school), and why there are so many kids in the AAP classes but so few in General Ed, with them.

So you see, since your non-AAP kid obviously doesn't have to attend a center (and is fortunate not to have to), they have no reason to feel bad about themselves. Those kids who DO have centers as their base schools, see this dynamic every single day, and guess what? It's no fun at all to be in their shoes. If it makes you feel better to label parents who don't like center schools as "obsessed and insanely jealous (???)," then knock yourself out. I'm sure it's easier to insult parents who have actual concerns than to really try putting yourself in their shoes for a moment and imagining how your non-AAP kid might feel if s/he had to go to a school in which s/he felt inferior every single day.

Okay, so this doesn't make any sense. Every year your kid has a chance of NOT being in the same class as their best friend even if they BOTH stayed in GE or BOTH went into AAP. So, if they were both in GE or both in AAP but didn't get placed in the same class would they seriously cry or get upset?? Also, the AAP and GE classes have classes together in all of the specials, eat lunch together, and have recess together.

So, it's a crapshoot whether or not your kid will be in her bestie's class every year no matter if they or their friend is in GE or AAP! So, if your kid is crying then you have a different emotional issue to deal with (separation anxiety maybe over hurt feelings for feeling slighted). Also, if you DD feels inferior than you are doing something wrong as a parent. Don't the GE classes continue to have differentiation within the classroom (different math and reading groups)? If she's not in the TOP group does she feel inferior? If so, than you have other issues to worry about.

You're clearly not getting it. We're not talking about only one best friend, for crying out loud (see bolded, above). The issue (one among many) is of dividing up and segregating groups of friends for the rest of their elementary school years. They may be together for specials, etc., but that's really not the same thing at all.

And because it is a very rare AAP kid who is actually advanced across the board, it makes no sense to sequester these kids into centers when they could simply attend AAP or advanced classes in their own school, along side other kids who need advanced coursework in some subjects but not all.

I'm new to the discussion here, but do not understand the segregation of groups of friends comment. My DS is now in second grade, and all the kids have gotten shuffled each year. So far, he has only been in the same class with 1 other kid all three years, and only a handful of past K/first grade fellow students. So far, each year, he is with more kids that have not been in a class with him than have been in a class with him. I think there are 5 classes per grade. Are there other ES that have less classes per grade or don't mix up the kids each year? And yes, he sees his past classmates in specials and in outside activities. I fully expect the same mixing in third grade, regardless of where he goes (LLIV, GE or AAP center).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



How would that work for a kid that needs this across the academic spectrum? Would they literally be by themselves or with just a few kids for most of the day (all academic subjects)?

This is why LLIV could work in some areas of the County, like McLean, Vienna, and Herndon/Chantilly area, but not in others. A one size fits the whole county approach is a bad idea.

School was not ideal for my child in K-2. AAP gets closer to meeting her academic and social needs, but she could use more academically. Pull outs, however, would really make
socialization harder since she wouldn't be in class with very many kids all day long. Or if they only do pull outs for math/lang than it would be a rough situation for all in the other academic classes.

Maybe a truly gifted program is the best solution.

Anonymous wrote:



How would that work for a kid that needs this across the academic spectrum? Would they literally be by themselves or with just a few kids for most of the day (all academic subjects)?

This is why LLIV could work in some areas of the County, like McLean, Vienna, and Herndon/Chantilly area, but not in others. A one size fits the whole county approach is a bad idea.

Additionally, special ed is something certain kids REQUIRE and as such, should certainly have access to those services. AAP is not special ed, nor should it be treated as such. AAP is merely enrichment, and should be administered to either everyone or no one.


According to you. Not according to the Sate of Virginia.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rezoning is a huge deal for all the kids (GE and AAP) who have been in one ES for 4+ years and get moved to a different school. How would you feel if your DC was told s/he had to move schools, away from friends, teachers s/he knows and the programs/supports s/he has? I'd be furious (and my DCs aren't ES age, so it wouldn't affect us directly). But really-- these are thousands of actual kids you are shuffling around.

first world problems. I see you had no issues moving to a center. Do you only make friends with kids who go to the center? Do you shun your own neighborhood friends?

PLEASE get over it.

Seriously. This is so low in the whole scheme of things to get worked up about. These kids were obviously able to make the transition to the center at some point. So the kids return to their neighborhood school... along with all the other neighborhood kids. See how that works? Nothing difficult about it at all, though I'm sure there will be parents who act like the sky is falling, just as they did when we (finally) went to full-day Mondays. The sky didn't fall then, and it won't fall now.

You think slicing off 1/2 of a school's population is no big deal? Really? Taking 350 kids out of one school is no problem? (multiply by oh... 20 or more schools) Something to fiddle with over the summer? Wow.

How on earth is sending kids back to the base schools they are assigned to in any way complicated?

I know it's a very complicated idea, but try to keep up: Because when 120 kids get there, there is no room for them. And the Center is now half empty. 5 kids per grade go center, no big deal. 40-50 kids do, huge issue. And it's not like FCPS has a ton of extra room at any school. How can you not see that, at least in places like Vienna & Western Fairfax there would need to be mass rezoning-- of all ES & MS kids (not just AAP) to new base schools?

And I'll repeat for you, because you seem to need the repetition: THEN REZONE. Half empty centers would now become base schools of their own, with room for the rezoned students. I would be fine with rezoning all kids. All of them. In fact, we've already been through a re-zoning and somehow, we made it through just fine. It's truly not a big deal, but you can continue to make it one.

You're okay in theory. If it was your kid in mid to late ES being rezoned, I doubt you'd think it was fine.

Not at all. I have kids in all stages of elementary school right now and would be fine with a rezoning if it meant centers would become a thing of the past. As I said earlier, we've already been through a rezoning and the sky didn't fall.

Have fun with that. Since you're just fine with being sent to a different ES, I hope you're first in line.

Yes, and you have fun kicking and screaming because all of a sudden, your child will have to attend a "regular" school.

Except I wouldn't be kicking & screaming. DC1 went to a "regular school" with a strong LLIV program. I preferred that approach. It kept him with the kids he had been with since K. We moved, and DC2 couldn't get AAP at the base school. But I'd love it if she could. My only problem would be if her base school could not field an AAP classroom. I'm the PP who said I would love a base school option: neighborhood friends, shorter busing, etc. I don't know why you think that all parents who have AAP kids want their kids segregated, or think their kids are better than yours, or like having to ship them to a Center in the middle of ES. Get to know some AAP parents and give them, and their kids, a chance. Sure, some of the TJ or bust/ tiger moms are obnoxious (even other AAP parents roll their eyes), but lots of us try to keep ourselves and our kids grounded and don't think our kids are somehow superior. You can dislike the concept & implementation of the AAP program-- it sounds like your school has some significant issues. But your contempt for & anger toward the parents and kids who participate in the program probably means that AAP parents and kids do steer clear of you & your kids. I wouldn't want my DCs around someone with your attitude-- or your kids, if you are passing the anger down. Because they have done nothing wrong, and don't deserve to be labeled or looked down on by you and your kids. And we actively encourage our kids to make friends and participate in activities without worrying about the AAP/GE status of the other kids. But you-- we'd avoid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rezoning is a huge deal for all the kids (GE and AAP) who have been in one ES for 4+ years and get moved to a different school. How would you feel if your DC was told s/he had to move schools, away from friends, teachers s/he knows and the programs/supports s/he has? I'd be furious (and my DCs aren't ES age, so it wouldn't affect us directly). But really-- these are thousands of actual kids you are shuffling around.

first world problems. I see you had no issues moving to a center. Do you only make friends with kids who go to the center? Do you shun your own neighborhood friends?

PLEASE get over it.

Seriously. This is so low in the whole scheme of things to get worked up about. These kids were obviously able to make the transition to the center at some point. So the kids return to their neighborhood school... along with all the other neighborhood kids. See how that works? Nothing difficult about it at all, though I'm sure there will be parents who act like the sky is falling, just as they did when we (finally) went to full-day Mondays. The sky didn't fall then, and it won't fall now.

You think slicing off 1/2 of a school's population is no big deal? Really? Taking 350 kids out of one school is no problem? (multiply by oh... 20 or more schools) Something to fiddle with over the summer? Wow.

How on earth is sending kids back to the base schools they are assigned to in any way complicated?

I know it's a very complicated idea, but try to keep up: Because when 120 kids get there, there is no room for them. And the Center is now half empty. 5 kids per grade go center, no big deal. 40-50 kids do, huge issue. And it's not like FCPS has a ton of extra room at any school. How can you not see that, at least in places like Vienna & Western Fairfax there would need to be mass rezoning-- of all ES & MS kids (not just AAP) to new base schools?

And I'll repeat for you, because you seem to need the repetition: THEN REZONE. Half empty centers would now become base schools of their own, with room for the rezoned students. I would be fine with rezoning all kids. All of them. In fact, we've already been through a re-zoning and somehow, we made it through just fine. It's truly not a big deal, but you can continue to make it one.

You're okay in theory. If it was your kid in mid to late ES being rezoned, I doubt you'd think it was fine.

Not at all. I have kids in all stages of elementary school right now and would be fine with a rezoning if it meant centers would become a thing of the past. As I said earlier, we've already been through a rezoning and the sky didn't fall.

Have fun with that. Since you're just fine with being sent to a different ES, I hope you're first in line.

Yes, and you have fun kicking and screaming because all of a sudden, your child will have to attend a "regular" school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rezoning is a huge deal for all the kids (GE and AAP) who have been in one ES for 4+ years and get moved to a different school. How would you feel if your DC was told s/he had to move schools, away from friends, teachers s/he knows and the programs/supports s/he has? I'd be furious (and my DCs aren't ES age, so it wouldn't affect us directly). But really-- these are thousands of actual kids you are shuffling around.

first world problems. I see you had no issues moving to a center. Do you only make friends with kids who go to the center? Do you shun your own neighborhood friends?

PLEASE get over it.

Seriously. This is so low in the whole scheme of things to get worked up about. These kids were obviously able to make the transition to the center at some point. So the kids return to their neighborhood school... along with all the other neighborhood kids. See how that works? Nothing difficult about it at all, though I'm sure there will be parents who act like the sky is falling, just as they did when we (finally) went to full-day Mondays. The sky didn't fall then, and it won't fall now.

You think slicing off 1/2 of a school's population is no big deal? Really? Taking 350 kids out of one school is no problem? (multiply by oh... 20 or more schools) Something to fiddle with over the summer? Wow.

How on earth is sending kids back to the base schools they are assigned to in any way complicated?

I know it's a very complicated idea, but try to keep up: Because when 120 kids get there, there is no room for them. And the Center is now half empty. 5 kids per grade go center, no big deal. 40-50 kids do, huge issue. And it's not like FCPS has a ton of extra room at any school. How can you not see that, at least in places like Vienna & Western Fairfax there would need to be mass rezoning-- of all ES & MS kids (not just AAP) to new base schools?

And I'll repeat for you, because you seem to need the repetition: THEN REZONE. Half empty centers would now become base schools of their own, with room for the rezoned students. I would be fine with rezoning all kids. All of them. In fact, we've already been through a re-zoning and somehow, we made it through just fine. It's truly not a big deal, but you can continue to make it one.

You're okay in theory. If it was your kid in mid to late ES being rezoned, I doubt you'd think it was fine.

Not at all. I have kids in all stages of elementary school right now and would be fine with a rezoning if it meant centers would become a thing of the past. As I said earlier, we've already been through a rezoning and the sky didn't fall.

Have fun with that. Since you're just fine with being sent to a different ES, I hope you're first in line.