Anonymous wrote:Don't do what PP is suggesting about regarding the consent issue. That's horribly manipulative and messes with her head.

Granted. Do you have any ideas that haven't been mentioned that are constructive or non manipulative?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I am hoping to get some advice from people in the lower libido category. How can I express to my DW that I don't want to have sex with her without making her feel like she is a bad wife? That I understand she is who she is and it is preferable to masturbate than have sex with her (even typing that sounds cold)."

Cold question, OP. Do you believe this or are you just telling yourself this? It's a sincere question and I wonder if you really know the answer. I'm not trying to fuck with you, but the answers will point you in different directions, IMO.

That is a fair question, especially since some people come to DCUM to vent (fair enough) or seek validation for their opinions.

I am being very sincere here. I need to see this from her perspective. Our marriage is starting to hit the tipping point where I could see this hitting a death spiral and the lack of sex becoming the fall of our marriage. On the surface, we are a good couple, fun, friendly, seemingly happy, probably that couple that would surprise people if we announced our divorce. But years of mismatched libido is becoming a poison. Which is such a shame because we could be such a great team if we could figure this out.

I have been through the resentment. I have been through the patience - wait until she stops breastfeeding, or kids are sleeping through the night, out of diapers. Some women's libidos magically reappear at age 40 (it both warms my heart and crushes me to hear this as someone commented upthread). I have had so many candid conversations with my wife on this, and she professes her deep love, says she can't imagine life without me, that she finds me attractive, please don't divorce me she says, I will work on it, etc, etc.

So my question is very sincere for two reasons:

1) I need to see this from her perspective so I can understand how she is perceiving things and empathize with her. Because from my perspective, all she needs to do is get in the mood a couple times per week (or tell me what I can do to get her in the mood) and she will be rewarded with the most loving, devoted husband she could wish for. I can't fathom why she wouldn't want this. Or why she would risk divorce over complacency. These aren't rhetorical statements, I really want to know what she could be thinking.

2) Since sex (and the disparity in libido) is poisoning our marriage, I want to find a constructive way to lift this black cloud. So that is why I want to be able to tell her - don't worry about having sex with me anymore, or not for a while. I don't want to be placated. I don't want to be some mercy case. I am so sick of dwelling on it, I am sick of it being an issue of tension, I am sick of trying to remove obstacles to her libido with no success. So really, truly, desperately, I want to find some way to get back to enjoying the aspects of my marriage that do work, the friendship, the parenting, the economic goals, taking care of each other, while accepting the fact that the sexual aspect of our marriage is probably not going to come back. As much as I am extremely heartbroken that I am in this situation, the alternative of cheating or divorce aren't appealing to me, not with my kids at this age.

Sorry for the long response - tl;dr - I am serious and extremely appreciative of those who have responded.

I love learning new terminology. I thought tl;dr was a typo until I googled it?! DCUM FTW

Basically, I think you two need to just suck it up and go to counseling. What's the worst case scenario? What's the probability that the worst case will actually happen? What are you afraid of? Divorce, continued sexual frustration, more resentment?

I agree with the poster who wrote that she might not know how to get in the mood and doesn't know what to tell you. What I can't understand is her inability to fake it a little if she in fact wants that quickie. It sounds like you don't get it either. Could you ask her to help you understand her? (Also, what might be preventing her from giving you the masturbating assist that yet another poster recommended?)

I also agree with the former poster that she doesn't fully realize/appreciate the urgency. Or she does (because she asks you not to divorce her), but shes paralyzed by fear. and/or she doesn't know how to work on it? Or is kind of lazy about prioritizing it (seeing if she can work with her low libido and attitude to better meet you in the middle) once she goes into busy mom/wife/caretaker (asexual) mode. Like she gets the urgency, but lacks the ability (cognitively to focus on herself/your sex life).

I understand that your situation feels hopeless and frustrating. But, you are kind of all over the map.

You've accepted that she's low libido and you can just masturbate on your own, on the one hand. OTOH, you haven't accepted the discrepancy and it's "poisoning the marriage"

If the following is true, can't you just explain this to her in a meaningful, even romantic and understanding way.... (also with jewelry or expensive bubbly to symbolize a mature, healing/restorative phase):

I want to find a constructive way to lift this black cloud. So that is why I want to be able to tell her - don't worry about having sex with me anymore, or not for a while. I don't want to be placated. I don't want to be some mercy case. I am so sick of dwelling on it, I am sick of it being an issue of tension, I am sick of trying to remove obstacles to her libido with no success. So really, truly, desperately, I want to find some way to get back to enjoying the aspects of my marriage that do work, the friendship, the parenting, the economic goals, taking care of each other, while accepting the fact that the sexual aspect of our marriage is probably not going to come back.

"honey, I'm not divorcing you now or in the future. Please don't fear this. I love you as much as you love me, maybe even more. I might suck at communicating it, but I really do. Honestly, I do miss the sex we had before the kid/s came along, but I'm much happier now with the kids and us as a family unit. I apologize for being immature at times - unable to understand and/or accept your altered libido. I also apologize for not knowing how to go the quickie route w/out feeling abusive/selfish. I appreciate that you were trying to express your love and meet me in the middle of our discrepant libidos. I need a break from us trying so hard or overthinking/overtalking our sex life. I really, truly, desperately want to find a way to get back to enjoying the aspects of our marriage that work so well: our friendship, parenting, our vacation/retirement goals, and most importantly, taking care of each other. I'd like to be affectionate and I want us to kiss and hug and cuddle and give foot rubs and back rubs, but let's not feel pressured to have sex when it might feel forced. If you are in the mood, though, please let me know and I'd be happy to have sex. I just don't want to pressure you to be artificial or....

Best of luck!

Anonymous wrote:I'm a DW and the lower libido spouse in my relationship. I do think your wife should be making more of an effort - just lying there during sex is not cool. I found that once my husband and I got into a groove of more sex (twice a week), that I started wanting it more. It's getting over the initial hurdle that's tough. What worked for us was my husband offering lots of physical affection but upfront saying that he wasn't looking for sex. That took the pressure off and let me relax, which ultimately led me to want to have sex. But you have to be completely genuine that you're not looking for sex at that moment. Here's what worked for us:

- DH giving full body massage. I had to get naked but he didn't want sex. Just wanted to give me a good massage and get to touch my body. Win-win. Most times, after being touched while naked and completely relaxed, I was begging him for sex.

- DH saying he just wanted to make out a bit. It was fun to feel like teenagers just kissing. But of course, that does awaken things.

The key is to truly convince her that you're not just trying to get sex though. Hope this helps!

Wow, this is so similar to what my DW and I did it's scary.

Anonymous wrote:On the first item, from her perspective, I'll bet she doesn't know how to get in the mood. Doesn't know what to tell you. Despite the premium so many people put on communication, talking about sex makes that mood even more elusive.

With respect to complacency, I don't know. Perhaps she doesn't -- despite all the conversations -- really appreciate the urgency. And that's the flip side -- while talking about it makes the mood more elusive, *not* talking about it makes complacency much more likely.

It can be hard to just get in the mood. It's not a switch that she can flip. She might not really understand what gets her in the mood. And I agree--talking it to death can make it even more difficult. The pressure, the expectations can work to dampen any desire she might naturally feel. I think that working on the amount of physical affection in your marriage is a good place to start. You can get out of the habit of touching each other, and that can be fatal to your sex life. Hello and goodbye and goodnight kisses, hugs, holding hands, casual touches throughout the day, massages, ...these things can help take the pressure off but also create an environment that allows both partners to feel loved and comfortable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you guys don't compromise bye-bye to this marriage. Have to ask yourself doesn't being left alone is more important to you than your SO.

On the opposite side, is treating your wife as though she is a failure because she doesn't get off as often as you do more important to you than your marriage?

Where's that in this situation? Maybe I missed it

He would rather masturbate than have sex with his wife. How do you think that makes his wife feel?

That's no really fair. It's bad sex and halfhearted.

But I think that's what is being addressed by the LL women in this thread. There is an air of resentment on both sides. After all, how do you expect her to not feel only halfhearted about having sex with a guy who would rather masturbate? It's a cycle. It's a vicious cycle.

OP, could she be resentful about something and not realize it? Could she be resentful, but secretive about it b/c she's already self-conscious about her low libido and doesn't want to rock the boat? It sounds like she lacks confidence or self-awareness. Sex aside, is she confident about the marriage?

Don't do what PP is suggesting about regarding the consent issue. That's horribly manipulative and messes with her head.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I am hoping to get some advice from people in the lower libido category. How can I express to my DW that I don't want to have sex with her without making her feel like she is a bad wife? That I understand she is who she is and it is preferable to masturbate than have sex with her (even typing that sounds cold)."

Cold question, OP. Do you believe this or are you just telling yourself this? It's a sincere question and I wonder if you really know the answer. I'm not trying to fuck with you, but the answers will point you in different directions, IMO.

That is a fair question, especially since some people come to DCUM to vent (fair enough) or seek validation for their opinions.

I am being very sincere here. I need to see this from her perspective. Our marriage is starting to hit the tipping point where I could see this hitting a death spiral and the lack of sex becoming the fall of our marriage. On the surface, we are a good couple, fun, friendly, seemingly happy, probably that couple that would surprise people if we announced our divorce. But years of mismatched libido is becoming a poison. Which is such a shame because we could be such a great team if we could figure this out.

I have been through the resentment. I have been through the patience - wait until she stops breastfeeding, or kids are sleeping through the night, out of diapers. Some women's libidos magically reappear at age 40 (it both warms my heart and crushes me to hear this as someone commented upthread). I have had so many candid conversations with my wife on this, and she professes her deep love, says she can't imagine life without me, that she finds me attractive, please don't divorce me she says, I will work on it, etc, etc.

So my question is very sincere for two reasons:

1) I need to see this from her perspective so I can understand how she is perceiving things and empathize with her. Because from my perspective, all she needs to do is get in the mood a couple times per week (or tell me what I can do to get her in the mood) and she will be rewarded with the most loving, devoted husband she could wish for. I can't fathom why she wouldn't want this. Or why she would risk divorce over complacency. These aren't rhetorical statements, I really want to know what she could be thinking.

2) Since sex (and the disparity in libido) is poisoning our marriage, I want to find a constructive way to lift this black cloud. So that is why I want to be able to tell her - don't worry about having sex with me anymore, or not for a while. I don't want to be placated. I don't want to be some mercy case. I am so sick of dwelling on it, I am sick of it being an issue of tension, I am sick of trying to remove obstacles to her libido with no success. So really, truly, desperately, I want to find some way to get back to enjoying the aspects of my marriage that do work, the friendship, the parenting, the economic goals, taking care of each other, while accepting the fact that the sexual aspect of our marriage is probably not going to come back. As much as I am extremely heartbroken that I am in this situation, the alternative of cheating or divorce aren't appealing to me, not with my kids at this age.

Sorry for the long response - tl;dr - I am serious and extremely appreciative of those who have responded.

PP from up thread, here. Is there a reason that you want to masturbate alone and without her? Would you be willing to do so with her present? Would she be willing to help you in that regard and make it more fun for you?

That was a key for my DH and me -- he still masturbates alone, of course, but often I am there with him encouraging him, talking dirty, taking my clothes off so he can look at me, etc. I don't want to get off at the same rate he does at all, but I am honestly so happy to help him get off. And once we got there and figured that out, everything shifted in our marriage for the better. We ultimately had more sex because I felt like when I didn't want to, there were other things I could offer that he would be happy with and that would increase our closeness as a couple, but that would also give me a little space and not make me feel pressured to get myself somewhere I didn't have the mental energy to go. Him giving me permission to not be in the mood gave me the freedom and comfort to be there for him, actively and enthusiastically. It seems counterintuitive I suppose, but that's what it took for me to feel like there was no pressure and for me to get in the mood more often myself.

OP, I'm guessing you don't think this is an option or that you think she's incapable of doing this w/out seeming like she's taking one for the team. I think you need to make her understand your feelings about how horrible that makes you feel. That's in your control. Communicating how you feel - and you have time to think about it and if necessary work with someone/people to put your message into wording that's focused on you (and maybe can't be misinterpreted as you blaming/scapegoating her).

(This is beyond manipulative and F-ed up, but you have to think about strategy and ultimate goals maybe?! Could you pretend that you have a confession? That you have a friend or dating a girl or have a cousin or know someone who was raped. Honestly, you probably know many, but few are open about it. Just say that as a dad or as a man or as a husband, you have a (an over)sensitivity to issues around consent. Tell her that you really, really want to believe that she's consenting even if she doesn't orgasm and can't (fake a) smile), etc. But, that it's a mental block. This makes it a "you" issue, not her issue. If, you truly do want to accept her as is and can masturbate in private without her knowing and don't want to talk her into or don't think you can talk to her about the goal of having mutually amazing sex more than once a month.

"Another low libido partner" again...I like the massage idea, and I'm ok with direct communication but explain it so that it's clear you get where she is coming from. Something like, "I want to take the pressure off and just connect in other ways" or whatever.

Also, there's a spectrum of stuff here. Naked massages and showering together at one end, but also: a playful slap on the ass as you walk past, coming up behind her and just giving her a hug and a kiss and walking away - any number of small interactions that you just break off before it starts to lead to sex but which build physical intimacy. Weave it into your day.

She may think something's up, but it sounds like you guys have talked about this already so just be honest and explain. This may not be her issue, after all, and she'll just be confused!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I am hoping to get some advice from people in the lower libido category. How can I express to my DW that I don't want to have sex with her without making her feel like she is a bad wife? That I understand she is who she is and it is preferable to masturbate than have sex with her (even typing that sounds cold)."

Cold question, OP. Do you believe this or are you just telling yourself this? It's a sincere question and I wonder if you really know the answer. I'm not trying to fuck with you, but the answers will point you in different directions, IMO.

That is a fair question, especially since some people come to DCUM to vent (fair enough) or seek validation for their opinions.

I am being very sincere here. I need to see this from her perspective. Our marriage is starting to hit the tipping point where I could see this hitting a death spiral and the lack of sex becoming the fall of our marriage. On the surface, we are a good couple, fun, friendly, seemingly happy, probably that couple that would surprise people if we announced our divorce. But years of mismatched libido is becoming a poison. Which is such a shame because we could be such a great team if we could figure this out.

I have been through the resentment. I have been through the patience - wait until she stops breastfeeding, or kids are sleeping through the night, out of diapers. Some women's libidos magically reappear at age 40 (it both warms my heart and crushes me to hear this as someone commented upthread). I have had so many candid conversations with my wife on this, and she professes her deep love, says she can't imagine life without me, that she finds me attractive, please don't divorce me she says, I will work on it, etc, etc.

So my question is very sincere for two reasons:

1) I need to see this from her perspective so I can understand how she is perceiving things and empathize with her. Because from my perspective, all she needs to do is get in the mood a couple times per week (or tell me what I can do to get her in the mood) and she will be rewarded with the most loving, devoted husband she could wish for. I can't fathom why she wouldn't want this. Or why she would risk divorce over complacency. These aren't rhetorical statements, I really want to know what she could be thinking.

2) Since sex (and the disparity in libido) is poisoning our marriage, I want to find a constructive way to lift this black cloud. So that is why I want to be able to tell her - don't worry about having sex with me anymore, or not for a while. I don't want to be placated. I don't want to be some mercy case. I am so sick of dwelling on it, I am sick of it being an issue of tension, I am sick of trying to remove obstacles to her libido with no success. So really, truly, desperately, I want to find some way to get back to enjoying the aspects of my marriage that do work, the friendship, the parenting, the economic goals, taking care of each other, while accepting the fact that the sexual aspect of our marriage is probably not going to come back. As much as I am extremely heartbroken that I am in this situation, the alternative of cheating or divorce aren't appealing to me, not with my kids at this age.

Sorry for the long response - tl;dr - I am serious and extremely appreciative of those who have responded.

PP from up thread, here. Is there a reason that you want to masturbate alone and without her? Would you be willing to do so with her present? Would she be willing to help you in that regard and make it more fun for you?

That was a key for my DH and me -- he still masturbates alone, of course, but often I am there with him encouraging him, talking dirty, taking my clothes off so he can look at me, etc. I don't want to get off at the same rate he does at all, but I am honestly so happy to help him get off. And once we got there and figured that out, everything shifted in our marriage for the better. We ultimately had more sex because I felt like when I didn't want to, there were other things I could offer that he would be happy with and that would increase our closeness as a couple, but that would also give me a little space and not make me feel pressured to get myself somewhere I didn't have the mental energy to go. Him giving me permission to not be in the mood gave me the freedom and comfort to be there for him, actively and enthusiastically. It seems counterintuitive I suppose, but that's what it took for me to feel like there was no pressure and for me to get in the mood more often myself.

On the first item, from her perspective, I'll bet she doesn't know how to get in the mood. Doesn't know what to tell you. Despite the premium so many people put on communication, talking about sex makes that mood even more elusive.

With respect to complacency, I don't know. Perhaps she doesn't -- despite all the conversations -- really appreciate the urgency. And that's the flip side -- while talking about it makes the mood more elusive, *not* talking about it makes complacency much more likely.

Anonymous wrote:"I am hoping to get some advice from people in the lower libido category. How can I express to my DW that I don't want to have sex with her without making her feel like she is a bad wife? That I understand she is who she is and it is preferable to masturbate than have sex with her (even typing that sounds cold)."

Cold question, OP. Do you believe this or are you just telling yourself this? It's a sincere question and I wonder if you really know the answer. I'm not trying to fuck with you, but the answers will point you in different directions, IMO.

That is a fair question, especially since some people come to DCUM to vent (fair enough) or seek validation for their opinions.

I am being very sincere here. I need to see this from her perspective. Our marriage is starting to hit the tipping point where I could see this hitting a death spiral and the lack of sex becoming the fall of our marriage. On the surface, we are a good couple, fun, friendly, seemingly happy, probably that couple that would surprise people if we announced our divorce. But years of mismatched libido is becoming a poison. Which is such a shame because we could be such a great team if we could figure this out.

I have been through the resentment. I have been through the patience - wait until she stops breastfeeding, or kids are sleeping through the night, out of diapers. Some women's libidos magically reappear at age 40 (it both warms my heart and crushes me to hear this as someone commented upthread). I have had so many candid conversations with my wife on this, and she professes her deep love, says she can't imagine life without me, that she finds me attractive, please don't divorce me she says, I will work on it, etc, etc.

So my question is very sincere for two reasons:

1) I need to see this from her perspective so I can understand how she is perceiving things and empathize with her. Because from my perspective, all she needs to do is get in the mood a couple times per week (or tell me what I can do to get her in the mood) and she will be rewarded with the most loving, devoted husband she could wish for. I can't fathom why she wouldn't want this. Or why she would risk divorce over complacency. These aren't rhetorical statements, I really want to know what she could be thinking.

2) Since sex (and the disparity in libido) is poisoning our marriage, I want to find a constructive way to lift this black cloud. So that is why I want to be able to tell her - don't worry about having sex with me anymore, or not for a while. I don't want to be placated. I don't want to be some mercy case. I am so sick of dwelling on it, I am sick of it being an issue of tension, I am sick of trying to remove obstacles to her libido with no success. So really, truly, desperately, I want to find some way to get back to enjoying the aspects of my marriage that do work, the friendship, the parenting, the economic goals, taking care of each other, while accepting the fact that the sexual aspect of our marriage is probably not going to come back. As much as I am extremely heartbroken that I am in this situation, the alternative of cheating or divorce aren't appealing to me, not with my kids at this age.

Sorry for the long response - tl;dr - I am serious and extremely appreciative of those who have responded.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a DW and the lower libido spouse in my relationship. I do think your wife should be making more of an effort - just lying there during sex is not cool. I found that once my husband and I got into a groove of more sex (twice a week), that I started wanting it more. It's getting over the initial hurdle that's tough. What worked for us was my husband offering lots of physical affection but upfront saying that he wasn't looking for sex. That took the pressure off and let me relax, which ultimately led me to want to have sex. But you have to be completely genuine that you're not looking for sex at that moment. Here's what worked for us:

- DH giving full body massage. I had to get naked but he didn't want sex. Just wanted to give me a good massage and get to touch my body. Win-win. Most times, after being touched while naked and completely relaxed, I was begging him for sex.

- DH saying he just wanted to make out a bit. It was fun to feel like teenagers just kissing. But of course, that does awaken things.

The key is to truly convince her that you're not just trying to get sex though. Hope this helps!

This is excellent advice.

Another low libido partner here and I want to +100 the above as well. For me, part of the problem is a lack of overall physical intimacy and affection, so anytime my partner touches me it's because he wants to have sex. There's no more playful kissing or hugging or making out, etc. I'm supposed to just be "on" like he is. The foreplay before actual sex is fine but for me, that foreplay needs to be scattered throughout our lives in a way, if that makes sense.

Good luck, hope you guys figure it out.

OP here - what is the best way to communicate that I am ok with physical intimacy and affection that doesn't lead to sex? I really am ok with it. I am not sure she would believe me. And if I give her a massage or a foot rub and she offers me something in return, I should decline?

I swear I am not this clueless in the seduction department. This stuff came much easier to me when I was single and dating, but then again, so did the ripping each other's clothes off post-date which is sadly gone from my life likely forever.

I'm the poster who originally suggested this. I would just say that you'd like to give her a proper massage, no funny business, you're not angling for sex, and that you just want to make her feel good. She'll most likely give you a skeptical look and you reiterate that you're not in the mood for sex but that you want to touch her body and give her a good massage. Then if she offers sex, say "really, I'm not looking for sex. Are you enjoying the massage? Good, that's what I want." If she insists, well then go for it. I think if you're patient, after a couple massages she will want to have sex with you and insist on it. At least that was the case for me.

Oh, and I'm not talking about some half-hearted foot rub either. My husband gave me real full body massages in bed.

She wants a message, give her a message. You wants sex she gives you sex. I guess it not that simple for couples who supposedly love each other

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a DW and the lower libido spouse in my relationship. I do think your wife should be making more of an effort - just lying there during sex is not cool. I found that once my husband and I got into a groove of more sex (twice a week), that I started wanting it more. It's getting over the initial hurdle that's tough. What worked for us was my husband offering lots of physical affection but upfront saying that he wasn't looking for sex. That took the pressure off and let me relax, which ultimately led me to want to have sex. But you have to be completely genuine that you're not looking for sex at that moment. Here's what worked for us:

- DH giving full body massage. I had to get naked but he didn't want sex. Just wanted to give me a good massage and get to touch my body. Win-win. Most times, after being touched while naked and completely relaxed, I was begging him for sex.

- DH saying he just wanted to make out a bit. It was fun to feel like teenagers just kissing. But of course, that does awaken things.

The key is to truly convince her that you're not just trying to get sex though. Hope this helps!

This is excellent advice.

Another low libido partner here and I want to +100 the above as well. For me, part of the problem is a lack of overall physical intimacy and affection, so anytime my partner touches me it's because he wants to have sex. There's no more playful kissing or hugging or making out, etc. I'm supposed to just be "on" like he is. The foreplay before actual sex is fine but for me, that foreplay needs to be scattered throughout our lives in a way, if that makes sense.

Good luck, hope you guys figure it out.

OP here - what is the best way to communicate that I am ok with physical intimacy and affection that doesn't lead to sex? I really am ok with it. I am not sure she would believe me. And if I give her a massage or a foot rub and she offers me something in return, I should decline?

I swear I am not this clueless in the seduction department. This stuff came much easier to me when I was single and dating, but then again, so did the ripping each other's clothes off post-date which is sadly gone from my life likely forever.

I'm the poster who originally suggested this. I would just say that you'd like to give her a proper massage, no funny business, you're not angling for sex, and that you just want to make her feel good. She'll most likely give you a skeptical look and you reiterate that you're not in the mood for sex but that you want to touch her body and give her a good massage. Then if she offers sex, say "really, I'm not looking for sex. Are you enjoying the massage? Good, that's what I want." If she insists, well then go for it. I think if you're patient, after a couple massages she will want to have sex with you and insist on it. At least that was the case for me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you guys don't compromise bye-bye to this marriage. Have to ask yourself doesn't being left alone is more important to you than your SO.

On the opposite side, is treating your wife as though she is a failure because she doesn't get off as often as you do more important to you than your marriage?

Where's that in this situation? Maybe I missed it

He would rather masturbate than have sex with his wife. How do you think that makes his wife feel?

That's no really fair. It's bad sex and halfhearted.

But I think that's what is being addressed by the LL women in this thread. There is an air of resentment on both sides. After all, how do you expect her to not feel only halfhearted about having sex with a guy who would rather masturbate? It's a cycle. It's a vicious cycle.