Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

To the poster who thinks the teacher makes the difference:

Thanks so much for joining the ranks of idiots who feel teachers are responsible and accountable for all of society's ills by being the "better teacher." I rather doubt you are a teacher or that you actually teach in a high poverty school. In fact, I will call you out as a liar.

Behavior issues everywhere? Yes! However it is the difference between silliness, hyperactivity, and gang fights. Maryland, and all counties and Md have revised their discipline policies to such an extent that few kids are ever disciplined and they can really take over a class. Kids from poverty GENERALLY, but certainly NOT ALL, have low engagement because of issues that are comorbid with poverty- abuse, poor nutrition, negligence, health issues, and lack of parent involvement. This is not always because parents do not want to be involved- they can't- they are working, they are embarrassed,they do not speak the language, they have low literacy, they cannot afford technology, they are depressed, they don't have enough food, they don't have a fucking car, they have poor parental models themselves, they were 14 when they had the child and someone is still raising them and all of the other kids they've had since then, they are in and out of the prison system, they are on drugs, they are fired or lose their jobs frequently, they have a cell phone they cannot pay for all the time, they have to keep moving because they are in HUD housing, they need a cigarette and that will ALWAYS trump breakfast in the house, there is a cadre of " uncles" in and out of the house ( and they are not uncles...).

Kids in poverty have been raising themselves since they were able to walk. Life is generally on their terms. Following rules in a school rarely enter their world view- it's all about survival to them..every damn minute of the day. So take your middle class values and find another occupation to trash and blame, but a parent does need to understand that a high poverty school does not always mean that their child will learn to get along with the whole world- the reality is that so many ancillary resources are spent in dealing with emotional and behavioral issues that the curriculum very well takes a back seat. Any teacher in a high FARMS school will tell you this. It is rewarding on many levels, but it is an exhausting and perilous job- and teachers are increasingly held accountable for what they cannot control.

Anonymous wrote:High Schools 50%+ White
Madison
Langley
McLean
Robinson
West Springfield
Woodson
Oakton
Marshall
Lake Braddock

High Schools 40%+ White

South County
Chantilly
South Lakes
Westfield
Fairfax

High Schools 30%+ White

Centreville
West Potomac
Herndon
Hayfield

High Schools 20%+ White
Edison
Stuart
Falls Church
Mount Vernon

High Schools <20% White
Lee
Annandale

You're citing to Fairfax Underground? An actual cite would include an actual link, not an image.

And are you somehow equating White with FARMs? Or is this just a random post?

High Schools 50%+ White
Madison
Langley
McLean
Robinson
West Springfield
Woodson
Oakton
Marshall
Lake Braddock

High Schools 40%+ White

South County
Chantilly
South Lakes
Westfield
Fairfax

High Schools 30%+ White

Centreville
West Potomac
Herndon
Hayfield

High Schools 20%+ White
Edison
Stuart
Falls Church
Mount Vernon

High Schools <20% White
Lee
Annandale

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The above is true. I went to school with the children of immigrants and they held education in high regard. These friends all went on to college. For many, English was not their first language. So yes, it depends on the attitudes of the parents, poor or not.

My experience in our title 1 school was much like those of previous posters. Some classes were better than others as far as discipline, but what bothered me was when I would ask my children, who were above grade level readers, what they did during reading time, they usually said they were reading to someone else (who usually reads easier books). When some samples of writing came home (infrequently) with the same mistakes as the last time, I would ask if the teacher gave feedback and the answer was, "No. The teacher knows I can write. She's helping other people." My other child was left on the one of the few working computers many times. Assignments that my older one had to do were dropped by the time by younger one came through only a few years later. It seemed that as poverty crept up, expectations went down. And, to be fair, at the time, poverty had doubled to over 50% in five years due to a boundary change. The teachers were so warm and friendly. I just think they were overwhelmed.

Was this Fairfax county?

My own school experience was not in Virginia. Our experience with a Title 1 school was in Fairfax county.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here..

WOW I was not expecting so many replies. I was able to see both the pros and cons by reading your replies...thanks!

I can see how being in a high FARMS school can effect students negatively in the lower grades but how about in the upper grades...high school for instance? In high school students at a high FARMS school can take more AP and honors courses. I would assume most of the kids taking AP classes are serious students who are looking forward to going to college. Wouldnt this give them a better classroom environment? How would such a school impact these students negatively?

I am looking to take my DC out of their base school (which is a high performing school) and into a low performing high school for the purpose of being around a more diverse group of people. Im afraid that DC will stick out like a sore thumb at their base school and might not be able to find a way to fit in.

I'm not sure I understand your plan, OP. In HS, the students self-segregate, as someone upthread said, a school within a school. So if you want to move from a high performing school to a low performing school purely as a social experiment, it won't work.

I want DC to feel comfortable. DC feels different from everyone else. No doubt DC would be able to find a social group at the high performing school but that won't take away from DC feeling different from everyone else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here..

WOW I was not expecting so many replies. I was able to see both the pros and cons by reading your replies...thanks!

I can see how being in a high FARMS school can effect students negatively in the lower grades but how about in the upper grades...high school for instance? In high school students at a high FARMS school can take more AP and honors courses. I would assume most of the kids taking AP classes are serious students who are looking forward to going to college. Wouldnt this give them a better classroom environment? How would such a school impact these students negatively?

I am looking to take my DC out of their base school (which is a high performing school) and into a low performing high school for the purpose of being around a more diverse group of people. Im afraid that DC will stick out like a sore thumb at their base school and might not be able to find a way to fit in.

More than FARMS, I think the bolded is very important. If the school was a high FARMS school and predominately white, then if you are white, you wouldn't stick out as much.

Children adapt and most will make friends wherever they are. But, some kids do have a lower tolerance for being able to adapt, and in later years, the differences become much more pronounced.

My kids are biracial. They used to go to a school that was majority white. My one DC would make comments about how DC wanted yellow hair because all of Dc's BFFs were blond. The few Hispanic kids there were lower SES. I didn't want my kids to associate Hispanic with poverty. We moved to a much more diverse school, both SES and ethnicity.

Op here. This is exactly what's going on with my DC.....feeling different because all the kids are lighter and DC claims to have the darkest hair in the school and the darkest skin.

Anonymous wrote:OP here..

WOW I was not expecting so many replies. I was able to see both the pros and cons by reading your replies...thanks!

I can see how being in a high FARMS school can effect students negatively in the lower grades but how about in the upper grades...high school for instance? In high school students at a high FARMS school can take more AP and honors courses. I would assume most of the kids taking AP classes are serious students who are looking forward to going to college. Wouldnt this give them a better classroom environment? How would such a school impact these students negatively?

I am looking to take my DC out of their base school (which is a high performing school) and into a low performing high school for the purpose of being around a more diverse group of people. Im afraid that DC will stick out like a sore thumb at their base school and might not be able to find a way to fit in.

I'm not sure I understand your plan, OP. In HS, the students self-segregate, as someone upthread said, a school within a school. So if you want to move from a high performing school to a low performing school purely as a social experiment, it won't work.

Anonymous wrote:OP here..

WOW I was not expecting so many replies. I was able to see both the pros and cons by reading your replies...thanks!

I can see how being in a high FARMS school can effect students negatively in the lower grades but how about in the upper grades...high school for instance? In high school students at a high FARMS school can take more AP and honors courses. I would assume most of the kids taking AP classes are serious students who are looking forward to going to college. Wouldnt this give them a better classroom environment? How would such a school impact these students negatively?

I am looking to take my DC out of their base school (which is a high performing school) and into a low performing high school for the purpose of being around a more diverse group of people. Im afraid that DC will stick out like a sore thumb at their base school and might not be able to find a way to fit in.

More than FARMS, I think the bolded is very important. If the school was a high FARMS school and predominately white, then if you are white, you wouldn't stick out as much.

Children adapt and most will make friends wherever they are. But, some kids do have a lower tolerance for being able to adapt, and in later years, the differences become much more pronounced.

My kids are biracial. They used to go to a school that was majority white. My one DC would make comments about how DC wanted yellow hair because all of Dc's BFFs were blond. The few Hispanic kids there were lower SES. I didn't want my kids to associate Hispanic with poverty. We moved to a much more diverse school, both SES and ethnicity.

Anonymous wrote:OP here..

WOW I was not expecting so many replies. I was able to see both the pros and cons by reading your replies...thanks!

I can see how being in a high FARMS school can effect students negatively in the lower grades but how about in the upper grades...high school for instance? In high school students at a high FARMS school can take more AP and honors courses. I would assume most of the kids taking AP classes are serious students who are looking forward to going to college. Wouldnt this give them a better classroom environment? How would such a school impact these students negatively?

I am looking to take my DC out of their base school (which is a high performing school) and into a low performing high school for the purpose of being around a more diverse group of people. Im afraid that DC will stick out like a sore thumb at their base school and might not be able to find a way to fit in.

As long as the school isn't having a problem with gangs and violence it think it is better in HS. AP and honors course work keep the motivated students on track. I think it's harder in an elementary environment for the reasons stated up thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your child's instructional day will be interrupted by countless episodes of disruptive behavior. The classroom culture will be tense as these children are frequently not engaged and well below level of the grade level material. Many of the teachers will be on the spectrum of burnout. Lots of staff turnover. The school focus will be to raise those test scores and the curriculum will be focused entirely on that. The common denominator of rigor will be much lower. Your kid will look like a rock star to most teachers who appreciate that he does his work, doesn't mouth off, and makes an effort. Is this a good thing? Not really, because the perception is skewed. He won't be challenged. He will not be motivated and inspired by other achievers, as they are not the norm. He will be involved in a close knit group of friends there, which is nice, but there are few options to make broader connections. School events are sparsely attended by the whole of the community.

Before the flamers start, yes, there are some kids from low income environments who excel beyond all these characterizations, but it is not the norm.

Sincerely,

Someone who really knows......

This “someone who really knows” has a very narrow knowledge of higher poverty schools.
The answer to your question is that if you have a child who comes from a very supportive home, he will likely do quite well in school, regardless of the economic level of the other students. Many Title I schools (which ARE Title I because of their high free and reduced lunch rates) have a student body that does well.
I have taught in several of these schools. I have not witnessed the “countless episodes of disruptive behavior.” Quite the opposite, really. Most of these kids are excited to be at school and quite eager to learn. Do some students misbehave? Of course. This happens in ALL schools. I won’t go through all of the pp.’s negative comments, but will point out a crucial point - the quality of your child’s teaching is most affected by the quality of the teacher. It is the TEACHER that makes the difference. So, you can have a GREAT teacher in a “bad” school or a BAD teacher in a great school.
Title I schools do have additional resources and the teachers at these schools also receive additional professional development. That is a plus.
My advice is to visit the school in question. Watch instruction. Do the teachers seem to like what they do? Do they treat the students respectfully? Do the students seem happy? Are the teachers supported by administration?
Good luck with your child and his/her schooling.

High FARMS does not translate to getting Title 1 resources. I mentioned earlier that my child is getting great grades. Yes, she is outperforming her classmates, but she is NOT learning the curriculum for her grade level. She is being held back because the majority of her classmates son't give a shit about learning and do NOT want to be in class. And reporting at east one fight a day??? I count that as countless episodes of disruptive behavior. Why don't you take a field trip to Briggs Chaney Middle School and come back and report on your experience.

Anonymous wrote:The above is true. I went to school with the children of immigrants and they held education in high regard. These friends all went on to college. For many, English was not their first language. So yes, it depends on the attitudes of the parents, poor or not.

My experience in our title 1 school was much like those of previous posters. Some classes were better than others as far as discipline, but what bothered me was when I would ask my children, who were above grade level readers, what they did during reading time, they usually said they were reading to someone else (who usually reads easier books). When some samples of writing came home (infrequently) with the same mistakes as the last time, I would ask if the teacher gave feedback and the answer was, "No. The teacher knows I can write. She's helping other people." My other child was left on the one of the few working computers many times. Assignments that my older one had to do were dropped by the time by younger one came through only a few years later. It seemed that as poverty crept up, expectations went down. And, to be fair, at the time, poverty had doubled to over 50% in five years due to a boundary change. The teachers were so warm and friendly. I just think they were overwhelmed.

Was this Fairfax county?

OP here..

WOW I was not expecting so many replies. I was able to see both the pros and cons by reading your replies...thanks!

I can see how being in a high FARMS school can effect students negatively in the lower grades but how about in the upper grades...high school for instance? In high school students at a high FARMS school can take more AP and honors courses. I would assume most of the kids taking AP classes are serious students who are looking forward to going to college. Wouldnt this give them a better classroom environment? How would such a school impact these students negatively?

I am looking to take my DC out of their base school (which is a high performing school) and into a low performing high school for the purpose of being around a more diverse group of people. Im afraid that DC will stick out like a sore thumb at their base school and might not be able to find a way to fit in.

Anonymous wrote:Your child's instructional day will be interrupted by countless episodes of disruptive behavior. The classroom culture will be tense as these children are frequently not engaged and well below level of the grade level material. Many of the teachers will be on the spectrum of burnout. Lots of staff turnover. The school focus will be to raise those test scores and the curriculum will be focused entirely on that. The common denominator of rigor will be much lower. Your kid will look like a rock star to most teachers who appreciate that he does his work, doesn't mouth off, and makes an effort. Is this a good thing? Not really, because the perception is skewed. He won't be challenged. He will not be motivated and inspired by other achievers, as they are not the norm. He will be involved in a close knit group of friends there, which is nice, but there are few options to make broader connections. School events are sparsely attended by the whole of the community.

Before the flamers start, yes, there are some kids from low income environments who excel beyond all these characterizations, but it is not the norm.

Sincerely,

Someone who really knows......

I agree with this. My kid was very average in a good elementary school. She is the rock star in a bad middle school. Her cousin goes to the same grade, but different school. After my daughter came home with straight A's I quizzed her based on the level of work her cousin is doing. She failed miserably. I set up a meeting with her teacher and they couldn't explain why she didn't do well with "my quiz". They were adamant that they were teaching the same curriculum and that she was performing well. I told them I don't want her measured against her peers. I didn't get very far but I now we are forced to consider private school. Seems like there are other kids in the same boat as her. I really wish they would separate the good kids from the bad and actually follow the curriculum. Not to mention, she comes homes EVERYDAY and talks about fights and disruptions. Every single day.

I think the issue here is that most of the kids come from low income housing developments with very unengaged parents. I Have a friend whose child attends a high FARMS school that is mostly Hispanic and things are much better there. Parents may not have a lot of time to help their kids, but they do value education and won't tolerate acting up in school.