Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SPED teacher here. We have "pre-IEP" meetings to ensure that everyone is on the same page. I don't think its to gang up on the parent but to rather ensure that there is not an unprofessional disagreement in the middle of the meeting. I know that we do "PRE-IEP" or RST meetings, during the IEP-B process where we are talking qualification. We want to make sure that everyone on the team is aware if the child is qualifying and under what or not qualifying and why. Trust me, I have been to a few meetings where the debate of Other Health Impairment or Emotional Disability has come to a head and team members are pissed.

If everyone from the school is "on the same page" as a result of a "pre" IEP meeting, then the decision made at that "pre" IEP meeting and the parents are not really part of the IEP team. If parents are to be a real part of the IEP, parents are supposed to be there when things get decided- not when the school already has there ducks in a row with everyone ready to fight for their side. This is exactly why parents feel left out of the process and ignored.

+1000

Yes, I felt the same way when I was at the qualification mtg and I found out they had already made up their minds about whether my son had qualified and under what category. I was just getting the interpretation of the psych educational exam at that mtg (I had the report but I am no expert and we were getting the psychologist's explanation). I found out that they had already talked to the psychologist ahead of time and had planned that he qualified and under what category. That answered my question of: how could we possibly go through the entire 25+ page report and then decide whether he qualified and under what category in a mtg that was scheduled to be 1 hour long? I didn't think it was fair at all. Why would it be unprofessional for team members to disagree, in your view, SPED teacher??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm another Sped teacher who is also a SN parent. This probably isn't a secret, but one thing I wish parents understood is that my time and attention are scarce resources. The law may say that the school needs to staff adequately to meet every student's needs, but the reality is that unless you add a dedicated aide, the staffing at my school isn't going to change based on your child's IEP. So, when we're in a meeting, and you're advocating for support at a specific point in the day, or for more minutes of services or services in a different location (e.g. pull out if they're currently push in, or vice versa), I'm thinking of whatever else I'm already scheduled to be doing at that moment.

The reality might be that the recess support you're asking for for your second grader is a great idea, but second grade recess is first grade reading, and the in class reading support I provide to Jose and Mary is crucial. It might be that your kid would do great if I pushed into math class, but then where would Suzie and Malik go? All of this is running through my mind during the meeting.

I'm not asking parents to change what they advocate for, just to understand why I might need time to process, or I might propose an alternative solution. It's not that I'm lazy. It's not that I don't care about your kid. It's that I also care about the other kids, some of whose parents aren't great advocates. I can also guarantee that there are also times when I'm doing the same thing in other IEPs, and the kid I'm thinking of is yours.

I definitely know SN teachers have time constraints and I view it as an impossible job. I have enormous respect for people who do it well and I let them and the principal know. The thing is schools need to brainstorm how to handle these things. People roll their eyes at parent participation, but if you are having recess issues over and over with many students and there is no way for the support staff to help, then perhaps there need to be parent volunteers there too, so you have more eyes making sure the kids are playing safely. If children are wandering alone, see if you can start a buddy program at that grade level or have older kids who be buddies or help facilitate play if they have something going on they can miss.

While I wouldn't have parents teaching reading groups, I would have them watching kids as they write in journals, etc so the teacher can work with a small group.

Some people complain that allowing parent volunteers to help more just leads to gossip and unfair treatment, etc. Guess what if enough other parents see this and say something or the staff notices or whatever then you simply don't allow that parent in the classroom or on the playground anymore. He or she can be reassigned to volunteer in the library or cafeteria.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and I agree that there needs to be brainstorming, but my point is that that brainstorming isn't always something that can happen real time in an IEP meeting. Sometimes there are people who need to be part of the conversation who aren't present (e.g. Maybe I could go to the second half of first grade reading, but I can't make that decision without talking to the first grade teacher. Maybe Ms. Smith has a pull out group at that point that could absorb Henry. Maybe Mr. Jones is already providing resource support and isn't so stretched that he couldn't take on Joey too . . .

Sometimes there are confidentiality reasons. Maybe the reason I'm busy is because that's when Jose's seizure meds are at their lowest, and his temporal lobe seizures can't be handled safely without a 1:1 ratio. I can't have that conversation at an IEP meeting, because it isn't fair to Jose. Maybe Molly's mom told you that her daughter's skills are just like your child's so you want them together, but I know that she either over or underestimated her child when she said that, so your proposed solution of putting your child with Molly isn't going to work.

Again, I'm happy to brainstorm. But I need time. Now, I'll say that in my experience, most parents recognize that when I ask for it. But I'm a veteran teacher, so I've had years to learn how to talk to parents. I don't see newer teachers getting the same courtesy, instead I see parents jump to the conclusion that a teacher doesn't care, when that couldn't be further from the truth.

I disagree with you that parent volunteers are the solution, but I'm not going to derail this conversation into a totally different topic.

Anonymous wrote:
I'm another Sped teacher who is also a SN parent. This probably isn't a secret, but one thing I wish parents understood is that my time and attention are scarce resources. The law may say that the school needs to staff adequately to meet every student's needs, but the reality is that unless you add a dedicated aide, the staffing at my school isn't going to change based on your child's IEP. So, when we're in a meeting, and you're advocating for support at a specific point in the day, or for more minutes of services or services in a different location (e.g. pull out if they're currently push in, or vice versa), I'm thinking of whatever else I'm already scheduled to be doing at that moment.

The reality might be that the recess support you're asking for for your second grader is a great idea, but second grade recess is first grade reading, and the in class reading support I provide to Jose and Mary is crucial. It might be that your kid would do great if I pushed into math class, but then where would Suzie and Malik go? All of this is running through my mind during the meeting.

I'm not asking parents to change what they advocate for, just to understand why I might need time to process, or I might propose an alternative solution. It's not that I'm lazy. It's not that I don't care about your kid. It's that I also care about the other kids, some of whose parents aren't great advocates. I can also guarantee that there are also times when I'm doing the same thing in other IEPs, and the kid I'm thinking of is yours.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm- cowards or a flawed system. I am a special education teacher and a SN mom. I don't think there is anything heroic about being unemployed. And as an advocate (paid) you can get your clients great results, right?

My secret would be that the best balance is struck in the place between passive/compliant and hostile. I see many parents come in and treat the teachers as enemies. I feel like they have been coached into doing so- and it's sad. Have a strong voice, for sure and question everything. I do! But stop the rage.

After three years of working with a school and consistent failure to address even the basic of my child's needs, of course I view them as an enemy. They have said to me that my son take up too much of their time, steals time away from other kids, it too much work. The principal has stood beside them. Defended them, suspended my son, put him into a room by himself. They have royally fucked him. I'm suing, They are the fucking enemy.

Or your kid should not be mainstreamed.

Anonymous wrote:DCPS Central office staff member & SN parent here. Based on what I've seen, know and experienced I would only send my child to about 4-5 of the schools in the entire school system. Overall, we are a total mess - sped teachers are only allowed to teach/instruct the special programs we purchase and each child has to fit into one of the pre-approved instructional programs. ZERO CREATIVITY - the child must fit into one of the programs!! We are so cookie-cutter it's painful. Massive and systemic issues are the norm. Any employee that challenges the aforementioned norm(s) are quite often deemed a trouble-maker and then suddenly this previously good employee is now considered to be failing to meet expectations. Next they are placed on a PIP and fired usually within two months. Most employees have learned that speaking up and advocating for kids will get you fired. The leadership teams are a joke and the central office is so TOP HEAVY. When this new round of terminations happen - I wonder whom will be left to do the work. LOL.

Anyway, I am leaving soon for a job over the bridge in VA.

Good luck and God bless you all!

Which schools?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SPED teacher here. We have "pre-IEP" meetings to ensure that everyone is on the same page. I don't think its to gang up on the parent but to rather ensure that there is not an unprofessional disagreement in the middle of the meeting. I know that we do "PRE-IEP" or RST meetings, during the IEP-B process where we are talking qualification. We want to make sure that everyone on the team is aware if the child is qualifying and under what or not qualifying and why. Trust me, I have been to a few meetings where the debate of Other Health Impairment or Emotional Disability has come to a head and team members are pissed.

How can you not understand how inappropriate this is? The "IEP Team" includes the parent. All discussion and disagreement should be happening at the meeting with the parent involved in the conversation. Ensuring everyone "is on the same page" prior to including the parent? I don't think that is even legal.

You must be part of Mundo Verde. They are intent on discriminating against and fucking over any SN kid they can.

You all are awful!!!!

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm- cowards or a flawed system. I am a special education teacher and a SN mom. I don't think there is anything heroic about being unemployed. And as an advocate (paid) you can get your clients great results, right?

My secret would be that the best balance is struck in the place between passive/compliant and hostile. I see many parents come in and treat the teachers as enemies. I feel like they have been coached into doing so- and it's sad. Have a strong voice, for sure and question everything. I do! But stop the rage.

After three years of working with a school and consistent failure to address even the basic of my child's needs, of course I view them as an enemy. They have said to me that my son take up too much of their time, steals time away from other kids, it too much work. The principal has stood beside them. Defended them, suspended my son, put him into a room by himself. They have royally fucked him. I'm suing, They are the fucking enemy.

Pre-determining an IEP is against federal and state law in DC. Get a good attorney and sue them!

Anonymous wrote:SPED teacher here. We have "pre-IEP" meetings to ensure that everyone is on the same page. I don't think its to gang up on the parent but to rather ensure that there is not an unprofessional disagreement in the middle of the meeting. I know that we do "PRE-IEP" or RST meetings, during the IEP-B process where we are talking qualification. We want to make sure that everyone on the team is aware if the child is qualifying and under what or not qualifying and why. Trust me, I have been to a few meetings where the debate of Other Health Impairment or Emotional Disability has come to a head and team members are pissed.

How can you not understand how inappropriate this is? The "IEP Team" includes the parent. All discussion and disagreement should be happening at the meeting with the parent involved in the conversation. Ensuring everyone "is on the same page" prior to including the parent? I don't think that is even legal.

Anonymous wrote:SPED teacher here. We have "pre-IEP" meetings to ensure that everyone is on the same page. I don't think its to gang up on the parent but to rather ensure that there is not an unprofessional disagreement in the middle of the meeting. I know that we do "PRE-IEP" or RST meetings, during the IEP-B process where we are talking qualification. We want to make sure that everyone on the team is aware if the child is qualifying and under what or not qualifying and why. Trust me, I have been to a few meetings where the debate of Other Health Impairment or Emotional Disability has come to a head and team members are pissed.

Which school system do you work for?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SPED teacher here. We have "pre-IEP" meetings to ensure that everyone is on the same page. I don't think its to gang up on the parent but to rather ensure that there is not an unprofessional disagreement in the middle of the meeting. I know that we do "PRE-IEP" or RST meetings, during the IEP-B process where we are talking qualification. We want to make sure that everyone on the team is aware if the child is qualifying and under what or not qualifying and why. Trust me, I have been to a few meetings where the debate of Other Health Impairment or Emotional Disability has come to a head and team members are pissed.

If everyone from the school is "on the same page" as a result of a "pre" IEP meeting, then the decision made at that "pre" IEP meeting and the parents are not really part of the IEP team. If parents are to be a real part of the IEP, parents are supposed to be there when things get decided- not when the school already has there ducks in a row with everyone ready to fight for their side. This is exactly why parents feel left out of the process and ignored.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:SPED teacher here. We have "pre-IEP" meetings to ensure that everyone is on the same page. I don't think its to gang up on the parent but to rather ensure that there is not an unprofessional disagreement in the middle of the meeting. I know that we do "PRE-IEP" or RST meetings, during the IEP-B process where we are talking qualification. We want to make sure that everyone on the team is aware if the child is qualifying and under what or not qualifying and why. Trust me, I have been to a few meetings where the debate of Other Health Impairment or Emotional Disability has come to a head and team members are pissed.

If everyone from the school is "on the same page" as a result of a "pre" IEP meeting, then the decision made at that "pre" IEP meeting and the parents are not really part of the IEP team. If parents are to be a real part of the IEP, parents are supposed to be there when things get decided- not when the school already has there ducks in a row with everyone ready to fight for their side. This is exactly why parents feel left out of the process and ignored.

Exactly. This is how the IEP "team" decided without the parents that my child did not qualify before I said a word or highlighted anything from outside evaluations which most of them did not read.

SPED teacher here. We have "pre-IEP" meetings to ensure that everyone is on the same page. I don't think its to gang up on the parent but to rather ensure that there is not an unprofessional disagreement in the middle of the meeting. I know that we do "PRE-IEP" or RST meetings, during the IEP-B process where we are talking qualification. We want to make sure that everyone on the team is aware if the child is qualifying and under what or not qualifying and why. Trust me, I have been to a few meetings where the debate of Other Health Impairment or Emotional Disability has come to a head and team members are pissed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course they have pre-IEP meetings in MCPS. Once I got to my school about 15 minutes early. The person in he office was new, and said oh I will take you to the room. Where everyone else on the team was sitting. They looked sheepish and said we are not ready for you yet and had the office lady escort me back to the office. Where I waited for another 20 minutes while they all "got on the same page."

+1. It absolutely happens in FCPS. Even if you haven't been escorted to the room, you get there in time for your appointment which is the first one in the day. All the staff is already there, but for whatever reason it takes them 20mn or more to usher you in to the room, where they all have the exact same perspective on your child's needs (and one which you happen to disagree with and substantiate with plenty of evidence). What exactly do you think they're doing during that time--shooting the breeze?
When you raise objections, one of the head honchos will speak up and say that "our position is that..."

I don't think it's a bad thing to have a pre-meeting, but I do think some teams simply use/abuse it to get everyone to go along rather than making sure you know the recs and what the issues are. It's so funny because when I was pleased with the teacher and team, the meetings were so chill. Just a few of us in a small room and it took maybe a half hour tops. Then we got a teacher who was a really poor fit and a special educator who wasn't following the IEP and who was incapable of advocating for DC. I got vocal. From then on our IEP meetings have taken place in a larger room with a small army of people and they drag on sometimes to multiple meetings. Everyone has to shift around to try to make room for us. The principal is always there now rather than a principal designee. Once both the principal and Vice principal were there. I felt like asking "Don't you have a school to run?"

In some ways it has worked to our favor because she sees some of the crap we put up with-someone goes rogue and says something just plain rude/unprofessional and she has to correct them/reframe things. They also get their ducks in a row and follow proper procedure. They always, always pre-meet before we come (ever since I became vocal). The receptionist will say "Oh they are still meeting. Larla will come get you when they are ready for you."

Pre-meetings are really not supposed to happen. If parents were truly equal members of the team they would be in the pre-meetings too. That's one of the things that makes parents paranoid and increases the tension even before things get started.