Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thx again for the suggestions and support. She went to full day Kindergarden this last year...and I am remembering how hard the first couple of months were while she adjusted.

OP this discussion got a little off the rails. In my opinion, here is the key to finding your solution. Also, there are ways to decompress other than TV.

OP here...would love to hear suggestions other than TV for decompression. I have no problem with TV but am interested to hear what works for you.

You can read to her while she lies next to you and closes her eyes. Even 15 minutes of that can be very refreshing.

Listening to a book on tape. We get them from the library.

Meditating--sounds cheesy, but there YouTube videos on kids meditation. My 7 year old loves it.

Anonymous wrote:

Because 6 is too young to go to all day camp

According to what source, other than you? My son is 6 and is in all day camp, and is his usual cheerful self at the end of the day. Not every kid is the same.

DS is cheerfully exhausted. Camp has been a godsend for us. He's really coming into his own. I've adjusted his lunch so that he gets as much energy as possible. I mean, all meals really. It's hard to keep him to an early bedtime because he wants to spend time with me and share his adventures. So, I'm working on getting him to bed sooner. I knew that this all-day, outdoors camp would be taxing on his wee system. It has been totally worth it in my opinion.

To the OP, do what you can to support her with high energy food and comforting post-camp rituals. Maybe bring a juice box to pick-up? Something to soothe. DS and I spend the walk home talking, then he jumps into the shower and dumps his dirty clothes in the laundry first thing when he gets home. We've been eating more pasta these days. Rather than pop him in front of the television, we've been reading more. There are a lot of books about camp and camping. Being clean and snuggling under a light blanket in the air conditioning helps bring him down from an exhausting day at camp.

I hope you find a system that works for you. Six is a big age; it feels that a big transitional year, from the vestiges of toddlerhood to the big leap of kid-dom. DS is such a big boy, and still very much a baby. It's a fun, tough time. I'm loving it, and trying to make it more comfortable for him.

GL

Anonymous wrote:I feel bad for these young kids having to spend their summerslike this. Such a pressure cooker of workaholic parents forcing constant structure on these kids who should be outside playing with friends, using their imagination, hanging out with parents, looking up at the clouds, riding bikes all over the neighborhood. Now they go to all day camps, year round sports, tutors, and more. Childhood is gone.

WTF? Not all camps are highly structured. A lot of them are outdoor play camps -- mix of swimming, goofy craft projects, lawn games, singing songs etc.

At DD's camp, only some of the activities are prompted by the adults (structured games of kickball, learning new camp songs, doing a particular craft, half hour swim lessons). The rest of the activities are more open-ended. The kids have free swim time in the pool, they organize into their own sports/games, make up their own crafts with whatever materials are around (hilarious!), and make up their own songs and "spy games".

The whole thing reminds me a lot of my childhood summers, actually. And I had a SAHM. It's really not that different.

DD was the same way that first year! Full day kindergarten was nothing in comparison. I think it's all the outdoor time, plus the heat and mild dehydration.

Like everyone else says, I brought a snack with me at pick up. Cold water, too.

Also, we didn't get in the car to go home right away. Something about the immediate transition was too much for her. Just having a few minutes of downtime right then and there at the pick up spot seemed to help a lot.

So we usually vegged in the grass or on a couch inside for 5-10 minutes before heading home. She was really into word searches, so I got a book of kids puzzles and let her have some quiet time. I saved all my questions etc. for later. Usually by the time we got home, she had perked up and was happy to tell us all about her day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thx again for the suggestions and support. She went to full day Kindergarden this last year...and I am remembering how hard the first couple of months were while she adjusted.

OP this discussion got a little off the rails. In my opinion, here is the key to finding your solution. Also, there are ways to decompress other than TV.

OP here...would love to hear suggestions other than TV for decompression. I have no problem with TV but am interested to hear what works for you.

For us it's coloring/drawing or any other crafts. I'm sure reading would work too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Because 6 is too young to go to all day camp

According to what source, other than you? My son is 6 and is in all day camp, and is his usual cheerful self at the end of the day. Not every kid is the same.

Totally agree. When my DC was 5 and 6 she would get in the car after all day camp and want to know what we were doing next! Not too long at all for many kids.

+1. My 5 yr old boy gets out of camp and we go to swim team practice. Then after practice he wants to stay and play at the pool with his friends.

Anonymous wrote:

Because 6 is too young to go to all day camp

According to what source, other than you? My son is 6 and is in all day camp, and is his usual cheerful self at the end of the day. Not every kid is the same.

Totally agree. When my DC was 5 and 6 she would get in the car after all day camp and want to know what we were doing next! Not too long at all for many kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel bad for these young kids having to spend their summerslike this. Such a pressure cooker of workaholic parents forcing constant structure on these kids who should be outside playing with friends, using their imagination, hanging out with parents, looking up at the clouds, riding bikes all over the neighborhood. Now they go to all day camps, year round sports, tutors, and more. Childhood is gone.

Are you old? It might surprise you that housing costs and college costs have risen tremendously, much faster than wages. It's not as feasible for most families to get by on one income as it used to be.

Not the PP but why do you think all that has risen while wages have not? Because some women wanted to work and all of sudden someone (Mom or Dad) staying home wasn't good enough. So instead of the normal one income household from forever until 1980's went to a normal two-income household. And college was all of a sudden mandatory and trade schools or blue collar jobs were considered not good enough. So now we have money-hungry college-loving families thinking specialized sports, McMansions, elite schools, tutors, piano lessons, chauffeuring globs of kids daily in their new SUV and spending all summer with extreme swim teams is normal life. And daily $5 coffees and $100 month gym memberships and $200 monthly electronic service bills are the norm too. And that designer bag and work attire.

So if you want to work, fine. But cry me a river on the MUST work to survive attitude. Women wanted to work. They chose two-income households to be the norm in good ole USA.

Yes, it is the fault of the ladies. Please ignore the 1% behind the curtain. I repeat, there are NO mega-rich CEOs of global corporations that have depressed your wages. None. None at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thx again for the suggestions and support. She went to full day Kindergarden this last year...and I am remembering how hard the first couple of months were while she adjusted.

OP this discussion got a little off the rails. In my opinion, here is the key to finding your solution. Also, there are ways to decompress other than TV.

OP here...would love to hear suggestions other than TV for decompression. I have no problem with TV but am interested to hear what works for you.

My parents worked all day and I still had memories of doing all the things pp described, instead of going to all day camps. I had an older sister who babysat me and neighbor ladies who watched out for us

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For most of history kids have done hard labor since the age of around six. These lazy summer days you talk about were possible only the past 50 years or so, and only among well-to-do families. Everyone else was working. Summer camp is not a soulless prison.

Bullshit. My parents were lower middle class (and that's being generous) and very blue collar (like, rough neck blue-collar). We had glorious summers at home with friends, neighbors, babysitters, and grandparents (which, I recognize since we lack it here, not everyone has the latter).

Camp is not a prison, you're right. But, if you're describing your kid as a nightmare, then it's probably not the best fit for him/her at that time.

You were better off than you thought. I worked from age 11 on.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thx again for the suggestions and support. She went to full day Kindergarden this last year...and I am remembering how hard the first couple of months were while she adjusted.

OP this discussion got a little off the rails. In my opinion, here is the key to finding your solution. Also, there are ways to decompress other than TV.

Anonymous wrote:For most of history kids have done hard labor since the age of around six. These lazy summer days you talk about were possible only the past 50 years or so, and only among well-to-do families. Everyone else was working. Summer camp is not a soulless prison.

Bullshit. My parents were lower middle class (and that's being generous) and very blue collar (like, rough neck blue-collar). We had glorious summers at home with friends, neighbors, babysitters, and grandparents (which, I recognize since we lack it here, not everyone has the latter).

Camp is not a prison, you're right. But, if you're describing your kid as a nightmare, then it's probably not the best fit for him/her at that time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel bad for these young kids having to spend their summerslike this. Such a pressure cooker of workaholic parents forcing constant structure on these kids who should be outside playing with friends, using their imagination, hanging out with parents, looking up at the clouds, riding bikes all over the neighborhood. Now they go to all day camps, year round sports, tutors, and more. Childhood is gone.

OP here, and I agree with you but most of us are not workaholics. We work. Period.

First, I'd say, have a little compassion and imagine how the child feels. 6 is too young for all day camp, imo. Even at 8, my DD is wasted at the end of an all day camp. outside doing stuff in the heat. Plus, camps are not very relaxed. They're constantly herding them around. Not a fun way to spend the whole summer.

I'd look for an alternative: get a college or HS kid to run the kid to half day camps here/there all summer. Then, they can spend the other half hanging out or going to the pool. That's what we did and it was a good fit.

I appreciate the alternative that you provided. But how dare you tell me to have compassion for my kid. Of course I do. I know that she is exhausted. I know it, and i raid as much upfront. I would rather her be able to bum around all summer like I did in the 70s. But that model is not feasible. We live in the city and i have not seen a half day camp available for rising first graders. This is the model,my kids have two working parents, I pick them up two afternoons a week and an after school sitter does the other days.

We do what we can within life constraints. And we have to live with the consequences. But guess what? I get exasperated sometimes with it all. Life is a constant juggling act before you even through in the pressure of "having more compassion" or "your kid can't back the life you are leading" judgment that parents get thrown your way when you open you mouth and admit that life isn't perfect and, in fact, is downright fucking messy.

I dare b/c you posted it here and characterized the child as a "nightmare." I work full time at a demanding job. And my DH travels for work quite a bit (he's about to leave for nearly 2 weeks on a trip where I won't even be able to speak to him. I have no families nearby. So, I'm well aware if exasperation, juggling, and imperfections. But, you need to look at your post. You were not compassionate. And, I'm not judging you for it. I'm not even judging you for your choices. But, I am pointing out something unpleasant to hear. That you don't like it isn't my problem. Maybe look at this as an opportunity to reflect a little on your reactions and a possible alternative instead of bitching me out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel bad for these young kids having to spend their summerslike this. Such a pressure cooker of workaholic parents forcing constant structure on these kids who should be outside playing with friends, using their imagination, hanging out with parents, looking up at the clouds, riding bikes all over the neighborhood. Now they go to all day camps, year round sports, tutors, and more. Childhood is gone.

Are you old? It might surprise you that housing costs and college costs have risen tremendously, much faster than wages. It's not as feasible for most families to get by on one income as it used to be.

Not the PP but why do you think all that has risen while wages have not? Because some women wanted to work and all of sudden someone (Mom or Dad) staying home wasn't good enough. So instead of the normal one income household from forever until 1980's went to a normal two-income household. And college was all of a sudden mandatory and trade schools or blue collar jobs were considered not good enough. So now we have money-hungry college-loving families thinking specialized sports, McMansions, elite schools, tutors, piano lessons, chauffeuring globs of kids daily in their new SUV and spending all summer with extreme swim teams is normal life. And daily $5 coffees and $100 month gym memberships and $200 monthly electronic service bills are the norm too. And that designer bag and work attire.

So if you want to work, fine. But cry me a river on the MUST work to survive attitude. Women wanted to work. They chose two-income households to be the norm in good ole USA.

And this is all women's fault? Jesus. You are a piece of work.

Yes, he is delusional. And also seems to believe in time travel. I'm 40. In what universe am i responsible for this situation? Unless I could go back and talk women out of working in the 60s-70s (which i wouldn't anyway, but let's set that aside) I have no ability to change the fact that a single income is not sufficient today unless it's a really unusually high income.
Also, there are a lot of reasons why real wages have fallen relative to the costs of housing/education. One is the growth of our population. ANother is the ridiculous political power/control given to large corporations in our country and the tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas. Women going to work isn't the story he wishes it were.