Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are the police investigating? Were threats made in the leaflets? If not, I'm not sure what the investigation entails.

Cops being proactive. Some nutjob has gotten people upset and they just want to know who it is and talk to him before fired up folks from the community get a hold of his ass and next thing you know homicide detectives being called onto the scene.

If he's on private property, that's reason as well

No, you are wrong. Random people deliver fliers to your door all the time without breaking the law, especially restaurant menus where I live. You'd have to have one of those "No Solicitors" signs.

They leave them in the flag of my mailbox at the bottom of the driveway. Even if they didn't, someone traipsing on your property gives you the right to notify law enforcement. It doesn't mean it's an offense, but that person can, at least, be questioned due to suspicious behavior in the neighborhood.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are the police investigating? Were threats made in the leaflets? If not, I'm not sure what the investigation entails.

Cops being proactive. Some nutjob has gotten people upset and they just want to know who it is and talk to him before fired up folks from the community get a hold of his ass and next thing you know homicide detectives being called onto the scene.

If he's on private property, that's reason as well

No, you are wrong. Random people deliver fliers to your door all the time without breaking the law, especially restaurant menus where I live. You'd have to have one of those "No Solicitors" signs.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the first thread I know of, where we're debating material that's being kept secret. How unusual.

Nobody in this thread has acknowledged seeing the material. How do you expect us to provide something we don't have? When a flyer says, "Jews Destroy U.S. Financially.", how much more do you have to see before you make up your mind?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you support Geller's right to free speech then you have no case to stop the distribution of anti-semitic flyers.

To me both are outrageous and despicable but one cannot pick and choose what are acceptable insults and falsehoods - and in the same breath support free speech.

Conservative here. Exactly.

Anonymous wrote:This is the first thread I know of, where we're debating material that's being kept secret. How unusual.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Can you cite a single action in support of free expression by Geller that wasn't focused on opposing Islam? She must have the most narrow definition of free speech that's ever been proposed.

Let's not play stupid here. People are being murdered for scribbling cartoons about Muhammed. Every other current free speech issue pales in comparison. No other issue causes writers or cartoonists in the US to fear for their lives.

I really have no interest in Pamela Geller except that she is courageous enough to openly oppose the violent intimidation of those who draw Muhammed. Once we have returned to a time when, say, a small atheist magazine can draw a cartoon of Muhammed without fearing for their lives, then I will be able to ignore Pamela Geller.

That's sort of like supporting Mussolini because he made the trains run on time. Just ignore everything else about him.

If Geller is such the advocate of free expression that you believe her to be, why has she opposed free expression by Muslims?

Even the ADL accuses her of "virulent anti-Muslim bigotry":

http://www.adl.org/civil-rights/discrimination/c/stop-islamization-of-america.html

BTW, we are constantly told that Geller only opposes "radical" Muslims. But, read her own words (from the ADL report):

"the idea of a 'moderate' Islam does not exist... because the Koran says so and Muhammad said so."

So, she only opposes "radical" Muslims, but all Muslim are radical.

If your goal is to return to a time when small atheist magazines can draw a cartoon of Muhammed without fearing for their lives, Pam Geller is the last person you want to support. Every move she makes strengthens those extremists who would kill because of drawings. It weakens and alienates moderate Muslims. IS and groups like them thrive on a clash of civilizations. The more they can demonstrate that they are defending Muslims against the enemies of Islam, the better they like it. Geller is a dream come true for them.

On the other hand, if Americans treated Geller the way they would treat an raving anti-Semite or white supremacist, it would take some wind out of the radical's sails.

Wow. You truly don't understand the goals of Radical Islam, and what motivates them.

Are you really suggesting that if people like Gellar would just shut up, radicals would behave themselves?

I am suggesting that Geller -- who opposes free expression by Muslims when that suits her -- provides ammunition to Muslim extremists to demonstrate that the West is anti-Islam. Geller's actions strengthen radical Muslims and the actions of radical Muslims strengthen Geller. I am not asking for Geller to shut up. She has the right to speak. I am asking that Americans treat her the same way they would treat an anti-Semite or white supremacist -- by showing the her values are not American values.

To what end? Free speech is an American value - ond of the most valued in fact. The only thing that strengthens radical muslims is convert or die.

Yes, free speech is an American value which is why I wrote, "I am not asking for Geller to shut up". Why do you treat Geller differently than you would an anti-Semite or a white supremacist?

Anonymous wrote:I cannot comment without seing the text in its entirerity.
Just a few phrases from a text is not enough. To judge if it is disturbing I need to read all of it.

I do find it disturbibg that I need to find leaflets that I have not read disturbing

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are the police investigating? Were threats made in the leaflets? If not, I'm not sure what the investigation entails.

Cops being proactive. Some nutjob has gotten people upset and they just want to know who it is and talk to him before fired up folks from the community get a hold of his ass and next thing you know homicide detectives being called onto the scene.

If he's on private property, that's reason as well

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are the police investigating? Were threats made in the leaflets? If not, I'm not sure what the investigation entails.

Cops being proactive. Some nutjob has gotten people upset and they just want to know who it is and talk to him before fired up folks from the community get a hold of his ass and next thing you know homicide detectives being called onto the scene.

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like the work of one crazy person, but still disturbing...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/anti-semitic-flyers-left-on-chevy-chase-driveways/2015/05/27/7e3e0c6a-04be-11e5-a428-c984eb077d4e_story.html?hpid=z2

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are the police investigating? Were threats made in the leaflets? If not, I'm not sure what the investigation entails.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Can you cite a single action in support of free expression by Geller that wasn't focused on opposing Islam? She must have the most narrow definition of free speech that's ever been proposed.

Let's not play stupid here. People are being murdered for scribbling cartoons about Muhammed. Every other current free speech issue pales in comparison. No other issue causes writers or cartoonists in the US to fear for their lives.

I really have no interest in Pamela Geller except that she is courageous enough to openly oppose the violent intimidation of those who draw Muhammed. Once we have returned to a time when, say, a small atheist magazine can draw a cartoon of Muhammed without fearing for their lives, then I will be able to ignore Pamela Geller.

That's sort of like supporting Mussolini because he made the trains run on time. Just ignore everything else about him.

If Geller is such the advocate of free expression that you believe her to be, why has she opposed free expression by Muslims?

Even the ADL accuses her of "virulent anti-Muslim bigotry":

http://www.adl.org/civil-rights/discrimination/c/stop-islamization-of-america.html

BTW, we are constantly told that Geller only opposes "radical" Muslims. But, read her own words (from the ADL report):

"the idea of a 'moderate' Islam does not exist... because the Koran says so and Muhammad said so."

So, she only opposes "radical" Muslims, but all Muslim are radical.

If your goal is to return to a time when small atheist magazines can draw a cartoon of Muhammed without fearing for their lives, Pam Geller is the last person you want to support. Every move she makes strengthens those extremists who would kill because of drawings. It weakens and alienates moderate Muslims. IS and groups like them thrive on a clash of civilizations. The more they can demonstrate that they are defending Muslims against the enemies of Islam, the better they like it. Geller is a dream come true for them.

On the other hand, if Americans treated Geller the way they would treat an raving anti-Semite or white supremacist, it would take some wind out of the radical's sails.

Wow. You truly don't understand the goals of Radical Islam, and what motivates them.

Are you really suggesting that if people like Gellar would just shut up, radicals would behave themselves?

I am suggesting that Geller -- who opposes free expression by Muslims when that suits her -- provides ammunition to Muslim extremists to demonstrate that the West is anti-Islam. Geller's actions strengthen radical Muslims and the actions of radical Muslims strengthen Geller. I am not asking for Geller to shut up. She has the right to speak. I am asking that Americans treat her the same way they would treat an anti-Semite or white supremacist -- by showing the her values are not American values.

To what end? Free speech is an American value - ond of the most valued in fact. The only thing that strengthens radical muslims is convert or die.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Can you cite a single action in support of free expression by Geller that wasn't focused on opposing Islam? She must have the most narrow definition of free speech that's ever been proposed.

Let's not play stupid here. People are being murdered for scribbling cartoons about Muhammed. Every other current free speech issue pales in comparison. No other issue causes writers or cartoonists in the US to fear for their lives.

I really have no interest in Pamela Geller except that she is courageous enough to openly oppose the violent intimidation of those who draw Muhammed. Once we have returned to a time when, say, a small atheist magazine can draw a cartoon of Muhammed without fearing for their lives, then I will be able to ignore Pamela Geller.

That's sort of like supporting Mussolini because he made the trains run on time. Just ignore everything else about him.

If Geller is such the advocate of free expression that you believe her to be, why has she opposed free expression by Muslims?

Even the ADL accuses her of "virulent anti-Muslim bigotry":

http://www.adl.org/civil-rights/discrimination/c/stop-islamization-of-america.html

BTW, we are constantly told that Geller only opposes "radical" Muslims. But, read her own words (from the ADL report):

"the idea of a 'moderate' Islam does not exist... because the Koran says so and Muhammad said so."

So, she only opposes "radical" Muslims, but all Muslim are radical.

If your goal is to return to a time when small atheist magazines can draw a cartoon of Muhammed without fearing for their lives, Pam Geller is the last person you want to support. Every move she makes strengthens those extremists who would kill because of drawings. It weakens and alienates moderate Muslims. IS and groups like them thrive on a clash of civilizations. The more they can demonstrate that they are defending Muslims against the enemies of Islam, the better they like it. Geller is a dream come true for them.

On the other hand, if Americans treated Geller the way they would treat an raving anti-Semite or white supremacist, it would take some wind out of the radical's sails.

Wow. You truly don't understand the goals of Radical Islam, and what motivates them.

Are you really suggesting that if people like Gellar would just shut up, radicals would behave themselves?

I am suggesting that Geller -- who opposes free expression by Muslims when that suits her -- provides ammunition to Muslim extremists to demonstrate that the West is anti-Islam. Geller's actions strengthen radical Muslims and the actions of radical Muslims strengthen Geller. I am not asking for Geller to shut up. She has the right to speak. I am asking that Americans treat her the same way they would treat an anti-Semite or white supremacist -- by showing the her values are not American values.