Anonymous wrote:Op here : no, nobody in family knows. They are elderly. But for this secret detail they've lovely, I love them etc. I hate this in spades. It's true, it's like this knowledge and wake up I had coupled with my dd saying this (even if it was a throwaway comment) and I'm paralyzed and want to cut off the contact.

Honestly OP, I just posted the long post above, and I forgot to say a key detail: It is always also possible you have suppressed memories of actual abuse. I am NOT saying that in a definitive way, because that would be irresponsible since I'm not your therapist and you're a stranger on an anonymous message board. But the strong reaction can often be indicative of suppressed memories, so it is that much more important that you get professional help. Your strong reaction could be about a lot of things, but this is one of them. I don't understand your resistance to seeking professional help, why would that be something you wouldn't do?

OP if nothing else I hope you've learned a really important lesson that all parents should learn: when your child says emphatically that they don't want to see a specific person or don't want to visit, you MUST calmly ask them why. Even if you will still choose to see the person, you should never let a child's statement of "I don't like ______" or "I don't want to see ______" go by without asking why.

Of course developmentally kids are going to say things like that and most of the time it's just about regular things, like "Because grandpa smells funny" or "because cousin ______ broke my doll last time".

But as a parent we ALWAYS need to have an ear to why our kids feel the way they do, ESPECIALLY when it is an emphatic "I don't want to see them" or "I don't like them".

And if they shut down and don't want to talk about why, yes, your flags should raise. I'm not saying you overreact or assume the worst, but you need to pay attention, ask why they won't talk, tell them they can tell you anything.

As someone who worked for CPS for more than 15 years, I can tell you that it is shocking and tragic how often kids try to tell parents of things that either the kids know was not supposed to happen, or the things that the child just knew felt weird or bad or hurt, but either they are ashamed or the perpetrator scared them/coaxed them into not talking. Everything from inappropriate touching to rape.

Last thing, it's not your job to decide "beyond a reasonable doubt" whether anything bad happened or not. It's ok to act because you're not sure but you're uneasy. But COMMUNICATION with yoru child is KEY. If you didn't ask then why she didn't want to see grandpa, if she ever says anything like that again about him or anyone else, ASK. And LISTEN.

For now, you do realize I hope that it's possible to see your parents and just have a compact with your DH that your kids will never be alone without either you or him. If you can't trust your DH to go by that rule, then you have to pretty much trial your kids yourself. How many kids do you have? The other thing is you can go for just a day, or one overnight. Sleep with your kids. Do whatever you have to do. If your parents ask questions or notice and ask if you don't trust them, just say "It's bigger than you, we have some general concerns and are in a very protective mode right now. Please don't take it personally." And leave it at that. If they really protest, ask them why they are upset about you being generally protective of your child? And you don't have to talk abotu why.

If you don't think you can pull off a visit where she's never apart from you or your DH, then maybe don't visit or have visits in public places like restaurants or playgrounds. You didn't say how far away from them you live, so a little hard to gauge how easy/hard short visits are.

Op here: thank you so much for your thoughtful post .

PP Here again.

Also, as a mom, things that did not bug me so much when I was single from childhood bother me now.

Now that I feel protective and loving of my kid I wonder how adults in my childhood thought some stuff they did was OK when I work so hard not to do it (like leaving us along in hotel rooms while on vacation at a very young age, or driving home after having a pitcher of beer).

It makes sense that you'd be stirred up.

Anonymous wrote:OP, seriously. Get real help somewhere - that isn't here on DCUM. You are wallowing and getting nowhere.

Get professional help. For your sake first - and then for the sake of your whole family.

I have to second this, gently. This is real stuff and is life-changing.

Yes, your kid could be avoiding a grandparent due to bad breath or stinky feet or some other 4-year old's perception of a crime. She may be getting a vibe from him or from you.
The fact that YOU are not OK is reason enough to open up the issue.

If you chose to not see your dad anymore to keep your daughter safe, you will need a professional to help you with that. You also lose your mom. That's big stuff.

You could also consider some serious boundaries (only hotel visits, no changing, no naps, only go when DH is present). If they ask why, you are more comfortable that way.

I don't know what religion you are, but at our Catholic school, ALLLLLL the parents had to watch a video about child abuse, as you describe, so we'd all know what to be on the lookout for. Good "groomers" also use charm and guilt to set the parents up and gain access to the kids. The most charismatic parents are the ones I trust the least. We also are all kind crazy about being protective of the kids. I walk 9 year olds to the bathroom at games and practices and wait outside the door. I want everyone to know I am the parent who is aware and don't pick my kid, or the kids around me. I also don't let people post pictures of my kids. (A ploy abusers often use). Call me crazy, but we all joke about the requirements outlined in the video and follow them.

Anonymous wrote:Op here: that comment seems unwarranted. People post here for advice. I've been flummoxed by how to proceed and was interested in people's takes.

OP people are saying that you should get real help because the problem you have shared with us is deeply troubling and we can see (even on an anonymous forum) how much this has affected you and potentially your family. You are not posting the usual shit of 'am I a milf' or ' do guys like fat chicks'. The issue you have raised is serious and could have far reaching consequences if you do not deal with it.

So please go deal with it, not by soliciting opinions from a bunch of randoms on a board, but from someone who can really help you and your family. You deserve to be at peace.

Op here: that comment seems unwarranted. People post here for advice. I've been flummoxed by how to proceed and was interested in people's takes.

OP, seriously. Get real help somewhere - that isn't here on DCUM. You are wallowing and getting nowhere.

Get professional help. For your sake first - and then for the sake of your whole family.

Op here: why would you ask if it was a dream? I don't understand that comment.

Anonymous wrote:Op here: I know it's moot because my dd said what she did but if she had never said anything and I still felt I needed to separate myself from him would that be illogical?

You need therapy. Are you sure this wasn't a dream? Your daughter is probably picking up on your panic.

Op here: I know it's moot because my dd said what she did but if she had never said anything and I still felt I needed to separate myself from him would that be illogical?

OP are you getting professional help? Now, not years ago. I haven't seen you answer this question, unless I have missed it?

You said that this is all you think about and it is affecting how you interact with you parents, even on the phone. This is affecting you deeply and profoundly for your sake and your daughter's sake you need to get help, now.

Anonymous wrote:Op here: I guess I'm in fragile state on topic but it's not a wish to bolster my own "argument". Just lacking confidence in wisest course.

Lacking confidence? I don't mean to be harsh but you need to grow a pair. This is your daughter and if there is any hint of inappropriate touching then you need to protect her. Where is your momma bear instincts? You may question what happened to you as a child but don't let your child get in that same situation and go through the same thing you are going through as an adult and questioning yourself about someone touching you inappropriately as a child. Man up already....if you can't prove his intentions fine, but don't let you daughter go through this. Life is hard enough without grandpa grab a$$ing it.

Anonymous wrote:I posted several months ago - quick recap
Very close relationship w my family though they live several states away. My parents pretty close w my kids, their grandchildren we visit one another handful of times per year. A year ago my parents coming to visit my dd says "I don't want to see grandpa" she was 4, I know they can have all kinds of opinions but she was emphatic. But they were on way so I dismissed it. Flash forward a visits later then coming up on holidays last winter I really have a bad moment about incident that happened to me in high school w my dad, her grandpa. Not big but he lay down behind me on their bed, me watching tv and his hand starting moving up my side was stopped by my elbow under my chest that wasn't going to move. The moment itself was maybe minor but I distinctly remember that interaction because my whole body froze, my gut said this is weird and I've never forgotten it.
So I tgem weirdly was freaking out internally at age 38 over incident in high school that I struggled w but moved on from. Talked to therapists my husband knew but I moved on. It hit me a different way last yr one day as I looked at my dd. I sort of "felt" the incident again like I never had since is best way to say it. Then I thought of her saying, for whatever reason "I don't want to see grandpa". And I got scared, felt like I'd ignored her wishes, sad, etc and bailed on seeing them for the holidays. And I haven't been able to get it together to go see them since then. They haven't seen their grandkids I'm struggling with a years ago feeling of mistrust and a need to bubble wrap my dd even though likely nothing happened. I feel terrible, often think okay this weekend is it we're going and then....can't. They know nothing except probably think I'm terrible for keeping kids away. I feel awful yet protective with no desire to see them but I love them. Am I crazy?

Follow your first instinct, if you think something is wrong it probably was. If your daughter has had a run in with the same person then don't force her to be around him. You will regret it years from now if he did do something. Don't expect a child her age to articulate to you what happened. You can certainly poise open ended questions to her and see what her response is and go from there. Things like this are to often poo poohed only to find out there was something going on. Better to be safe than sorry.

Op here: yes, maybe too needy but would love to get more opinions from anyone else. Thx to all who have posted so far.