Anonymous
Post 08/27/2015 21:02     Subject: Re:s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
Anonymous wrote:
No, but I think some people have enough self-awareness to know how they would respond in an emergency. My fight or flight reflex from being restrained would be much greater than the risk of me ripping out an IV given how much I hate having them put in. I can't be the only one given that this isn't even standard practice in the U.K. (considered inhumane) and a significant number of U.S. hospitals.


I am from the UK and yes it's true that strapping the arms down is absolutely not done at all here in the UK not in any hospital. Though it seems to be done in many other counties, The UK is one of the few places that does not have this practice.

And what I have found horrifying is that I have read posts on the web from many American women who were strapped to the OR table against their will even though they stated they did not want this. In the UK such would be assault yet in the USA it seems that they can just do this without your consent(strap your arms down) which is shocking.

In the UK many hospital do allow your partner to be with you for the Spinal and the baby is given to mom to hold right away in the OR as son as it is born. If someone is very nervous and freaking out they would just revert to GA but they would never strap you down no matter what as that form of restraint is illegal here and would be an assault on the person.

Here in the UK we have the right to refuse any or al, or part of any procedure we do not want. Yet in the USA hospitals it appears not to be the case. And it is quite frightening that in the USA they can just do what they want to without your consent and get away with it.


How is the malpractice litigation in the UK? Can you sue your doctor for several million dollars if something goes wrong? Here in the US they are liable up to their eyeballs. Hence the over cautious approach to many things. Including strapping.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2015 14:10     Subject: Re:s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
Anonymous wrote:
No, you have the right to refuse consent to any procedure in the US as well, and to revoke previously given consent at any time. It's just that if a hospital doesn't abide by your wishes, your legal remedies are (practically speaking) minimal.

Hi it's me again the previous poster from the UK.
Well I read these 2 alarming posts from 2 women who had C sections in American hospital(each in a diferent part of the Country and different States) who said they were forcibly strapped down against their will and it is clear from both their posts that they did not consent to it.
See this one from Sassy Primate last post on that page.
http://community.babycenter.com/post/a57275854

SassyPrimate


And I'm not one to fill people's heads up wi th "horror stories", but this was my experience. I usually leave this part out because it's crappy, but you specifically asked about arm restraints.

My arms were strapped down without me being told they would be. I hated it. I cried. I fought the straps because I felt like I was being literally held down and sliced open (I never wanted my c/s in the first place) but because of my pulling against them they insisted that I was combative and they kept me restrained. They also shoved a stupid oxygen line in my nose because I "needed to calm down". That just agitated me more because it both pinched and tickled at the same time.

I would have calmed down if they'd have untied me, but they instead kept me restrained and told me to "stop asking" as silent tears ran down my face and into my ears. I couldn't even wipe them away because NO HAND MOVEMENT.


It was clear that she clearly told them that she did not want her arms strapped down and she asked them to untie her several times but the staff would not. In the UK that would most certainly be assault if they did anything like that and also without the woman's consent.

Also this other post from this woman who also had a C Section in America and she was subject to such abuse, forcibly held down and strapped down without her consent it is a wonder she is still lucid.
This here:
http://beckybeanwrites.com/2010/07/dragonmonkeys-birth-story-part-2.html
Did you know that when you go in for surgery, they strap your arms down in the crucified Jesus position?

Yeah.

So, I learned something else about myself that day. I’ve always had the suspicion that I’m claustrophobic, but I’ve always managed to avoid situations where my suspicions can be proved.
While I knew and completely respected the fact that my hands needed to be out of the surgery field, I couldn’t help myself. I grit my teeth in an attempt to send my thoughts elsewhere, but I just couldn’t get over the fact that my arms were tied down, and all of a sudden I snapped.

Literally.

I yanked hard at both arm straps and managed to break the Velcro ties. Somehow, despite the fact that I was 217 months pregnant, I managed to sit bolt upright, and managed to tear down the blue curtain separating me from the rest of my body. I probably would have leapt off of the table, but the spinal had already taken effect and my legs weren’t quite obeying me.

“Get her arms! Get her arms!

“Get her out of the field! Don’t let her contaminate it!”

I’m not sure what I was really thinking. In fact, I don’t think I was thinking much at all. To be honest, it was kind of like I’ve got to hand it to those nurses— they’re quick! Not even five seconds after I made my pathetic attempt at freedom, they had me flat on the backboard again, arms strapped down with a double set of straps.

I tried to control my breathing, because I could actually hear myself borderline hyperventilating. I glanced around the room wildly.


If that's not abuse and assault I don't know what is. That woman only panicked because they strapped her arms down. And she was saying to them that she did not want the straps but the nurses just held her down and put double straps on her and the first woman was also strapped down by both her elbows or upper arms and her wrists.

In the UK those 2 women would never have been tied down no matter how panicky they were and the 2nds woman would most probably have been offered a general anesthetic,GA.
I think it's disgusting the way USA hospitals treat women. You only have to look on Improving Birth website and you see that many USA women have been assaulted by their so called care providers.


Well if you read the above posts I think it's a fairly good example that this is happening in many hospitals here in the US.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2015 13:44     Subject: Re:s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
No, but I think some people have enough self-awareness to know how they would respond in an emergency. My fight or flight reflex from being restrained would be much greater than the risk of me ripping out an IV given how much I hate having them put in. I can't be the only one given that this isn't even standard practice in the U.K. (considered inhumane) and a significant number of U.S. hospitals.


I am from the UK and yes it's true that strapping the arms down is absolutely not done at all here in the UK not in any hospital. Though it seems to be done in many other counties, The UK is one of the few places that does not have this practice.

And what I have found horrifying is that I have read posts on the web from many American women who were strapped to the OR table against their will even though they stated they did not want this. In the UK such would be assault yet in the USA it seems that they can just do this without your consent(strap your arms down) which is shocking.

In the UK many hospital do allow your partner to be with you for the Spinal and the baby is given to mom to hold right away in the OR as son as it is born. If someone is very nervous and freaking out they would just revert to GA but they would never strap you down no matter what as that form of restraint is illegal here and would be an assault on the person.

Here in the UK we have the right to refuse any or al, or part of any procedure we do not want. Yet in the USA hospitals it appears not to be the case. And it is quite frightening that in the USA they can just do what they want to without your consent and get away with it.


This sounds alarmist and misinformed to say the least.


NP. It's been mocked pretty hard core on this board, and it's not terribly common, but there's all kinds of weird, basically assault that happens to laboring and delivering women. I used to know more about the subject, but the thought is so unpleasant that I worked very hard at forgetting it.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2015 13:23     Subject: Re:s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
What I am trying to say is that yes in the UK there probably are some women who do freak out and try to sit up or tear down the curtain but the nursing staff here in the UK would never behaved in the way those American nurses did and they would never have strapped that mom down to the OR table.

Most C Sections in the UK are done with mom awake under Spinal but if a woman is too scarred to be awake they can do a GA.
I understand that in the USA they have different states each with different laws so the laws regarding consent and rights to refuse treatment vary from State to State.
Also in the USA they can restrain patients in hospital such as in the ICU and on the wards by strapping their arms and legs down.
But this is not done either in the UK and also would be illegal here.
But in the USA it seems very different and from what I read it seems that if you have a C Section in the USA they can force you to have your arms strapped down. That's not right.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2015 13:12     Subject: Re:s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
No, you have the right to refuse consent to any procedure in the US as well, and to revoke previously given consent at any time. It's just that if a hospital doesn't abide by your wishes, your legal remedies are (practically speaking) minimal.

Hi it's me again the previous poster from the UK.
Well I read these 2 alarming posts from 2 women who had C sections in American hospital(each in a diferent part of the Country and different States) who said they were forcibly strapped down against their will and it is clear from both their posts that they did not consent to it.
See this one from Sassy Primate last post on that page.
http://community.babycenter.com/post/a57275854

SassyPrimate


And I'm not one to fill people's heads up wi th "horror stories", but this was my experience. I usually leave this part out because it's crappy, but you specifically asked about arm restraints.

My arms were strapped down without me being told they would be. I hated it. I cried. I fought the straps because I felt like I was being literally held down and sliced open (I never wanted my c/s in the first place) but because of my pulling against them they insisted that I was combative and they kept me restrained. They also shoved a stupid oxygen line in my nose because I "needed to calm down". That just agitated me more because it both pinched and tickled at the same time.

I would have calmed down if they'd have untied me, but they instead kept me restrained and told me to "stop asking" as silent tears ran down my face and into my ears. I couldn't even wipe them away because NO HAND MOVEMENT.


It was clear that she clearly told them that she did not want her arms strapped down and she asked them to untie her several times but the staff would not. In the UK that would most certainly be assault if they did anything like that and also without the woman's consent.

Also this other post from this woman who also had a C Section in America and she was subject to such abuse, forcibly held down and strapped down without her consent it is a wonder she is still lucid.
This here:
http://beckybeanwrites.com/2010/07/dragonmonkeys-birth-story-part-2.html
Did you know that when you go in for surgery, they strap your arms down in the crucified Jesus position?

Yeah.

So, I learned something else about myself that day. I’ve always had the suspicion that I’m claustrophobic, but I’ve always managed to avoid situations where my suspicions can be proved.
While I knew and completely respected the fact that my hands needed to be out of the surgery field, I couldn’t help myself. I grit my teeth in an attempt to send my thoughts elsewhere, but I just couldn’t get over the fact that my arms were tied down, and all of a sudden I snapped.

Literally.

I yanked hard at both arm straps and managed to break the Velcro ties. Somehow, despite the fact that I was 217 months pregnant, I managed to sit bolt upright, and managed to tear down the blue curtain separating me from the rest of my body. I probably would have leapt off of the table, but the spinal had already taken effect and my legs weren’t quite obeying me.

“Get her arms! Get her arms!

“Get her out of the field! Don’t let her contaminate it!”

I’m not sure what I was really thinking. In fact, I don’t think I was thinking much at all. To be honest, it was kind of like I’ve got to hand it to those nurses— they’re quick! Not even five seconds after I made my pathetic attempt at freedom, they had me flat on the backboard again, arms strapped down with a double set of straps.

I tried to control my breathing, because I could actually hear myself borderline hyperventilating. I glanced around the room wildly.


If that's not abuse and assault I don't know what is. That woman only panicked because they strapped her arms down. And she was saying to them that she did not want the straps but the nurses just held her down and put double straps on her and the first woman was also strapped down by both her elbows or upper arms and her wrists.

In the UK those 2 women would never have been tied down no matter how panicky they were and the 2nds woman would most probably have been offered a general anesthetic,GA.
I think it's disgusting the way USA hospitals treat women. You only have to look on Improving Birth website and you see that many USA women have been assaulted by their so called care providers.
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2015 10:23     Subject: Re:s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
Anonymous wrote:I just had a planned c section at Sibley. A few things to note:

1. They did not strap my arms down during the procedure, but my arms were spread out to my sides.
2. After the baby was delivered, they show him to us, the pediatrician in the OR checked him out, then, because DS did not need special care, DH immediately go to hold him. I then got to snuggle with him while still in the OR, before they moved me. Once I was on the bed to be moved to post-OP, they let me hold DS the entire way to post-OP and during recovery. (Note: I did get the shivers after surgery, so then I stopped holding DS)
3. DH was in the operating room the whole time, except when I got the epidural. Make sure your DH knows to keep talking to you and keep you distracted so you aren't focused on the doctors and nurses operating on you!


My planned csection at Holy Cross was much the same.

I didn't hold the baby while still having surgery, but the anesthesiologist held her close enough to me to touch and kiss.

Remember, the anesthesiologist is there for your comfort. Mine was absolutely amazing from start to finish--and she gave me the heads up that the baby was about to come out which I appreciated!
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2015 10:11     Subject: Re:s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
I just had a planned c section at Sibley. A few things to note:

1. They did not strap my arms down during the procedure, but my arms were spread out to my sides.
2. After the baby was delivered, they show him to us, the pediatrician in the OR checked him out, then, because DS did not need special care, DH immediately go to hold him. I then got to snuggle with him while still in the OR, before they moved me. Once I was on the bed to be moved to post-OP, they let me hold DS the entire way to post-OP and during recovery. (Note: I did get the shivers after surgery, so then I stopped holding DS)
3. DH was in the operating room the whole time, except when I got the epidural. Make sure your DH knows to keep talking to you and keep you distracted so you aren't focused on the doctors and nurses operating on you!
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2015 10:03     Subject: Re:s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
Anonymous wrote:
No, but I think some people have enough self-awareness to know how they would respond in an emergency. My fight or flight reflex from being restrained would be much greater than the risk of me ripping out an IV given how much I hate having them put in. I can't be the only one given that this isn't even standard practice in the U.K. (considered inhumane) and a significant number of U.S. hospitals.


I am from the UK and yes it's true that strapping the arms down is absolutely not done at all here in the UK not in any hospital. Though it seems to be done in many other counties, The UK is one of the few places that does not have this practice.

And what I have found horrifying is that I have read posts on the web from many American women who were strapped to the OR table against their will even though they stated they did not want this. In the UK such would be assault yet in the USA it seems that they can just do this without your consent(strap your arms down) which is shocking.

In the UK many hospital do allow your partner to be with you for the Spinal and the baby is given to mom to hold right away in the OR as son as it is born. If someone is very nervous and freaking out they would just revert to GA but they would never strap you down no matter what as that form of restraint is illegal here and would be an assault on the person.

Here in the UK we have the right to refuse any or al, or part of any procedure we do not want. Yet in the USA hospitals it appears not to be the case. And it is quite frightening that in the USA they can just do what they want to without your consent and get away with it.


This sounds alarmist and misinformed to say the least.
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2015 09:17     Subject: Re:s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
Anonymous wrote:
No, but I think some people have enough self-awareness to know how they would respond in an emergency. My fight or flight reflex from being restrained would be much greater than the risk of me ripping out an IV given how much I hate having them put in. I can't be the only one given that this isn't even standard practice in the U.K. (considered inhumane) and a significant number of U.S. hospitals.


I am from the UK and yes it's true that strapping the arms down is absolutely not done at all here in the UK not in any hospital. Though it seems to be done in many other counties, The UK is one of the few places that does not have this practice.

And what I have found horrifying is that I have read posts on the web from many American women who were strapped to the OR table against their will even though they stated they did not want this. In the UK such would be assault yet in the USA it seems that they can just do this without your consent(strap your arms down) which is shocking.

In the UK many hospital do allow your partner to be with you for the Spinal and the baby is given to mom to hold right away in the OR as son as it is born. If someone is very nervous and freaking out they would just revert to GA but they would never strap you down no matter what as that form of restraint is illegal here and would be an assault on the person.

Here in the UK we have the right to refuse any or al, or part of any procedure we do not want. Yet in the USA hospitals it appears not to be the case. And it is quite frightening that in the USA they can just do what they want to without your consent and get away with it.


No, you have the right to refuse consent to any procedure in the US as well, and to revoke previously given consent at any time. It's just that if a hospital doesn't abide by your wishes, your legal remedies are (practically speaking) minimal.
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2015 07:16     Subject: s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why don't they let the husband in the room while they are doing the epidural? Sorry if this is common knowledge. I just don't know the answer to this question.



Mine was there when it was put in. So weird some aren't "allowed"!


Mine too.
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2015 03:00     Subject: s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
Anonymous wrote:Why don't they let the husband in the room while they are doing the epidural? Sorry if this is common knowledge. I just don't know the answer to this question.



Mine was there when it was put in. So weird some aren't "allowed"!
Anonymous
Post 08/25/2015 21:56     Subject: Re:s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
No, but I think some people have enough self-awareness to know how they would respond in an emergency. My fight or flight reflex from being restrained would be much greater than the risk of me ripping out an IV given how much I hate having them put in. I can't be the only one given that this isn't even standard practice in the U.K. (considered inhumane) and a significant number of U.S. hospitals.


I am from the UK and yes it's true that strapping the arms down is absolutely not done at all here in the UK not in any hospital. Though it seems to be done in many other counties, The UK is one of the few places that does not have this practice.

And what I have found horrifying is that I have read posts on the web from many American women who were strapped to the OR table against their will even though they stated they did not want this. In the UK such would be assault yet in the USA it seems that they can just do this without your consent(strap your arms down) which is shocking.

In the UK many hospital do allow your partner to be with you for the Spinal and the baby is given to mom to hold right away in the OR as son as it is born. If someone is very nervous and freaking out they would just revert to GA but they would never strap you down no matter what as that form of restraint is illegal here and would be an assault on the person.

Here in the UK we have the right to refuse any or al, or part of any procedure we do not want. Yet in the USA hospitals it appears not to be the case. And it is quite frightening that in the USA they can just do what they want to without your consent and get away with it.
Anonymous
Post 05/07/2015 00:05     Subject: Re:s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
Separation depends on the hospital. Some hospitals will try to keep you together (assuming everyone is stable baby isn't being sent to NICU etc)
Anonymous
Post 05/05/2015 23:40     Subject: s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
Anonymous wrote:Yes you can ask they not strap you down. Especially if you say that will give you anxiety. Just make sure you hold up your end of the bargain and not move your arms.

You can ask for skin-to-skin contact and for your spouse to stay, but also be prepared for them to say no. I mean, what are you going to do? Refuse and go somewhere else? With all surgeries, this is not in your control.

My husband was given the choice to stay with me or go with the baby. He chose the baby. I would've done the same in his shoes.


Just curious (since I really don't know what's normal)--at what point were you and the baby separated? Is that typical?
Anonymous
Post 05/05/2015 17:23     Subject: s/o - C-Section "Birth Plan"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why don't they let the husband in the room while they are doing the epidural? Sorry if this is common knowledge. I just don't know the answer to this question.



It's a pretty large bore needle, and if you are having an epi, not a spinal, they thread in a catheter. Too many partners pass out.


Not PP, but I figured that was the answer. The thing that I find strange was that DH was allowed in the room when I had one put in during my vaginal delivery (and didn't pass out) but won't be allowed when I have the same as part of pre-op at the same hospital. Some of it seems all so arbitrary.