Anonymous wrote:The lottery isn't meant to touch the "culture" issue. It's meant to keep the programs balanced between the number of kids who come in with Spanish and English. Period.

If we are going to attach significance to "culture," who is more culturally "Latino":

1). A white 7 year old who has spent half of their life living in a Spanish-speaking country, received all schooling in Spanish, and has all Latino friends, but has white parents who were raised in the U.S. And speak both English and Spanish, or

2). A 7 year old who has never visited a Spanish-speaking country, was born and raised in the U.S., who has Latino parents who were born and raised in the U.S. and speak both English and Spanish, or

3). A 7 year old who has vacationed in Spanish speaking countries, attended Spanish immersion preschool and early elementary at a bilingual school, been supported with native Spanish tutors, but has white parents.

I feel like this discussion overall ignores the modern world. In my view, all of the kids above are entitled to a spot if they can pass the test. It seems silly to suggest that only #2 qualifies.

3 is an example of a family buying their child admissions to a public school. It shouldn't be acceptable.

Anonymous wrote:That it's more about fluency and keeping the balance equal between kids who can speak Spanish and those who are learning. Unlike DCUM, DCPS schools including oyster understand that some kids are actually bilingual from early childhood.

I'm an IB parent, so I have a vested interest in having as many native Spanish speaking kids in my children's classes as possible. I really want Oyster to limit the watered down version. If Oyster isn't stressing native (first language) fluency, per the DC lottery definition, then I'll have to speak with the principal. I'll call next week to double check.

Another thought- Latinos born here in the U.S. Are native speakers of English. They speak as perfectly as any other American. I couldn't imagine saying now they're superior in Spanish, which subverts their native English ability. Yet, this discussion seems to pidgeon hole them. Trading one discriminatory view for another. This is why you can't do it.

Anonymous wrote:If the school states you must be Latino in ethnicity or culture they would be shut down quickly. There are numerous two-way programs across the U.S. The criteria is native fluency, not an acceptable race or culture. I think people are well-meaning wanting to Latinos a leg up, but that is the essence of discrimination.

What school says that you must be Latino? This dead horse has been completely beaten. Move on...for your own sanity.

If the school states you must be Latino in ethnicity or culture they would be shut down quickly. There are numerous two-way programs across the U.S. The criteria is native fluency, not an acceptable race or culture. I think people are well-meaning wanting to Latinos a leg up, but that is the essence of discrimination.

That it's more about fluency and keeping the balance equal between kids who can speak Spanish and those who are learning. Unlike DCUM, DCPS schools including oyster understand that some kids are actually bilingual from early childhood.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lottery isn't meant to touch the "culture" issue. It's meant to keep the programs balanced between the number of kids who come in with Spanish and English. Period.

If we are going to attach significance to "culture," who is more culturally "Latino":

1). A white 7 year old who has spent half of their life living in a Spanish-speaking country, received all schooling in Spanish, and has all Latino friends, but has white parents who were raised in the U.S. And speak both English and Spanish, or

2). A 7 year old who has never visited a Spanish-speaking country, was born and raised in the U.S., who has Latino parents who were born and raised in the U.S. and speak both English and Spanish, or

3). A 7 year old who has vacationed in Spanish speaking countries, attended Spanish immersion preschool and early elementary at a bilingual school, been supported with native Spanish tutors, but has white parents.

I feel like this discussion overall ignores the modern world. In my view, all of the kids above are entitled to a spot if they can pass the test. It seems silly to suggest that only #2 qualifies.

Oyster's admission criteria for a seat via the Spanish lottery requires Spanish dominance from a native speaker. Whether someone is dominant or not is pretty clear. A native speaker is defined as someone who speaks that language as their first language rather than having learned it as a foreign language. Therefore, a native Spanish speaking child has been spoken to (at home) in that language since birth. Thus, if any of the children listed above don't meet that definition (NO MATTER THEIR RACE OR ETHNICITY), they don't qualify. Number 3 clearly doesn't qualify--I'm not sure about #1 and #2 (more info. about their first language is needed). My children attend Oyster, and there are many OOB kids enrolled whose first language is clearly Spanish...even if they are now English dominant from attending a school in the U.S. The kids in my oldest child's Spanish reading group (the highest level in the class) ALL
have at least one native Spanish speaking parent--it does make a difference despite what some are saying on this thread. There are a few students in the class who are receiving tutoring, despite the fact that they attended a bilingual preschool. English is the only language spoken in their home.

This. (The part in bold.). I think this is a DCUM construct. This is not what the school says if you call.

What does the school say when you call?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lottery isn't meant to touch the "culture" issue. It's meant to keep the programs balanced between the number of kids who come in with Spanish and English. Period.

If we are going to attach significance to "culture," who is more culturally "Latino":

1). A white 7 year old who has spent half of their life living in a Spanish-speaking country, received all schooling in Spanish, and has all Latino friends, but has white parents who were raised in the U.S. And speak both English and Spanish, or

2). A 7 year old who has never visited a Spanish-speaking country, was born and raised in the U.S., who has Latino parents who were born and raised in the U.S. and speak both English and Spanish, or

3). A 7 year old who has vacationed in Spanish speaking countries, attended Spanish immersion preschool and early elementary at a bilingual school, been supported with native Spanish tutors, but has white parents.

I feel like this discussion overall ignores the modern world. In my view, all of the kids above are entitled to a spot if they can pass the test. It seems silly to suggest that only #2 qualifies.

Oyster's admission criteria for a seat via the Spanish lottery requires Spanish dominance from a native speaker. Whether someone is dominant or not is pretty clear. A native speaker is defined as someone who speaks that language as their first language rather than having learned it as a foreign language. Therefore, a native Spanish speaking child has been spoken to (at home) in that language since birth. Thus, if any of the children listed above don't meet that definition (NO MATTER THEIR RACE OR ETHNICITY), they don't qualify. Number 3 clearly doesn't qualify--I'm not sure about #1 and #2 (more info. about their first language is needed). My children attend Oyster, and there are many OOB kids enrolled whose first language is clearly Spanish...even if they are now English dominant from attending a school in the U.S. The kids in my oldest child's Spanish reading group (the highest level in the class) ALL
have at least one native Spanish speaking parent--it does make a difference despite what some are saying on this thread. There are a few students in the class who are receiving tutoring, despite the fact that they attended a bilingual preschool. English is the only language spoken in their home.

This. (The part in bold.). I think this is a DCUM construct. This is not what the school says if you call.

Anonymous wrote:The lottery isn't meant to touch the "culture" issue. It's meant to keep the programs balanced between the number of kids who come in with Spanish and English. Period.

If we are going to attach significance to "culture," who is more culturally "Latino":

1). A white 7 year old who has spent half of their life living in a Spanish-speaking country, received all schooling in Spanish, and has all Latino friends, but has white parents who were raised in the U.S. And speak both English and Spanish, or

2). A 7 year old who has never visited a Spanish-speaking country, was born and raised in the U.S., who has Latino parents who were born and raised in the U.S. and speak both English and Spanish, or

3). A 7 year old who has vacationed in Spanish speaking countries, attended Spanish immersion preschool and early elementary at a bilingual school, been supported with native Spanish tutors, but has white parents.

I feel like this discussion overall ignores the modern world. In my view, all of the kids above are entitled to a spot if they can pass the test. It seems silly to suggest that only #2 qualifies.

Oyster's admission criteria for a seat via the Spanish lottery requires Spanish dominance from a native speaker. Whether someone is dominant or not is pretty clear. A native speaker is defined as someone who speaks that language as their first language rather than having learned it as a foreign language. Therefore, a native Spanish speaking child has been spoken to (at home) in that language since birth. Thus, if any of the children listed above don't meet that definition (NO MATTER THEIR RACE OR ETHNICITY), they don't qualify. Number 3 clearly doesn't qualify--I'm not sure about #1 and #2 (more info. about their first language is needed). My children attend Oyster, and there are many OOB kids enrolled whose first language is clearly Spanish...even if they are now English dominant from attending a school in the U.S. The kids in my oldest child's Spanish reading group (the highest level in the class) ALL have at least one native Spanish speaking parent--it does make a difference despite what some are saying on this thread. There are a few students in the class who are receiving tutoring, despite the fact that they attended a bilingual preschool. English is the only language spoken in their home.

PP, continuing from OA website;

Philosophy

Oyster-Adams Bilingual School is dual language immersion elementary school and middle school with a global mission. At Oyster-Adams your child achieves personal and academic excellence in an atmosphere that values each student’s individual contribution to our community. Specifically, our approach encompasses the following principles
Inclusion and a deeper understanding of cultural differences and diversity: Oyster-Adams is an inclusive environment that embraces all members in a cohesive community and welcomes students from all cultural, ethnic, racial and linguistic backgrounds, with different special needs, from varying family compositions, and from different socio-economic levels. We believe that children thrive and learn best when they are with peers that represent the world in which we live

....

Inclusion and a deeper understanding of cultural differences and diversity: Oyster-Adams is an inclusive environment that embraces all members in a cohesive community and welcomes students from all cultural, ethnic, racial and linguistic backgrounds, with different special needs, from varying family compositions, and from different socio-economic levels. We believe that children thrive and learn best when they are with peers that represent the world in which we live.

The lottery isn't meant to touch the "culture" issue. It's meant to keep the programs balanced between the number of kids who come in with Spanish and English. Period

I believe there is a important and crucial difference between the rules of the lottery and the consequences of the lottery.

The rules are clear: language dominance is not linked to ethnicity, race or culture. Period

The consequences are much deeper and go beyond balancing the number of kids that arrive as Spanish or English dominant. They make the school culturally, ethnically and socioeconomically diverse. This is part of the OA's goals, as you can read on its website:

"To foster true bilingualism, bi-literacy and bi-culturalism, the Oyster-Adams’ student population also strives to be 50% Spanish dominant and 50% English dominant."

OP here -- I checked in to this thread last night and was surprised by the turn it took.

Lest anyone worry about my motives, my kid is not going to Oyster. We're very happy at our school. My (newly emigrated) Peruvian neighbor has a child who will be school aged next year and they were curious about Oyster and how it worked.

I should have added to my examples #1 and #3 that the white parents are non-Latino. And, in #1, that the schooling was in a Latin American country.

The lottery isn't meant to touch the "culture" issue. It's meant to keep the programs balanced between the number of kids who come in with Spanish and English. Period.

If we are going to attach significance to "culture," who is more culturally "Latino":

1). A white 7 year old who has spent half of their life living in a Spanish-speaking country, received all schooling in Spanish, and has all Latino friends, but has white parents who were raised in the U.S. And speak both English and Spanish, or

2). A 7 year old who has never visited a Spanish-speaking country, was born and raised in the U.S., who has Latino parents who were born and raised in the U.S. and speak both English and Spanish, or

3). A 7 year old who has vacationed in Spanish speaking countries, attended Spanish immersion preschool and early elementary at a bilingual school, been supported with native Spanish tutors, but has white parents.

I feel like this discussion overall ignores the modern world. In my view, all of the kids above are entitled to a spot if they can pass the test. It seems silly to suggest that only #2 qualifies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's often not a matter of "lying" but of stretching the truth ("sure, my cutie is Spanish dominant because she's spent 3 years full time with her Salvadoran nanny!").

OP: yes, there's a test, and quite in-depth.

For one, there's no such thing as Spanish dominant. There's umpteen threads on this already. Please do a search. Unless your child just arrived here in the States, he/she is English dominant- even if the parents do not speak English.

Secondly, my child was in Spanish-only daycare and developed perfect Spanish fluency. She passed the test at Oyster with flying colors. If the kid can speak Spanish, the kid can speak Spanish.

Don't get rattled by these Span. Dom. Truther Bullies. They may have moral objections to what you chose to do or whatever. That's their problem.

The lottery application for Oyster states the following: "Please note that this is a dual-language program. The dual language program at Oyster-Adams has two separate lotteries for pre-k, kindergarten, and 1st grade students – one for children whose dominant language is English, and another for those who are native Spanish speakers whose dominant language is Spanish. Admitted students will be assessed to confirm their dominant language."

There is no ambiguity. If your child is not a native Spanish speaker whose dominant language is Spanish, then you have stolen the seat from a child who fits that description. In other words, you are a liar and a thief. Btw, there are plenty of children who are born and raised in this country (by two Spanish speaking parents) who are, in fact, Spanish-dominant. Your kid and others have skirted the rules and stolen seats at Oyster, but it's not without risks. Parents who are attempting this strategy need to be prepared to lose their seat if they do not speak Spanish...karma does exist.

I think the fair thing to do would be to assess the fluency, and culture, of the parents. If they're native speakers, then the child gets preference.

A child who has learned a language at school, or in childcare, isn't a native speaker. They're a kid who has learned a language at school or childcare. They might speak Spanish as well as a native speaker, but they're still culturally Anglo. I thought the whole point of having the double lottery is to encourage families from both cultures. Instead it seems like another way for schools to give advantages to families with resources, in this case the resource to hire a Spanish speaking language, and to weed out kids with disabilities who would likely not be able to pass a language fluency test in any language.