Anonymous
03/30/2015 11:25
Subject: Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm don't understand why our school is telling DS that If it wasn't for MLK he wouldn't be able to play with some of his classmates. Isn't this topic a little too deep for that age not to mention not being true...
I'm quoting the original post because I think people have been making some rather large assumptions about the level of "personalization" that occurred during this discussion.
I think that a teacher could say, if schools hadn't been desegregated, you all would have been in separate schools, or would not have been able to eat lunch together. That's not calling out the hypothetical "Susie" that people started using as an example. That's also not making Susie a victim now.
What it might do is make "Sally" (let's say she's white) hear her teacher, and then make the logical conclusion. "Hey, that's means I wouldn't be able to eat with my friend Susie.
It's really hard for people sometimes to get engaged in the idea of injustice when it is in the abstract. In the last few years, we've seen countless examples of right-wing politicians adjusting their beliefs on gay marriage. Why? Because they have a friend or family member that is gay.
Of course educators need to be age-appropriate, but everyone arguing against making this "personal" is wrong. Making it "personal" it often the only thing that's going to make people care.
THIS +1,000,000 I still remember my 3rd grade teacher separating us by eye color. Brown eyed kids were asked to do various chores, while the blue eyed and green eyed kids were treated like royalty. The blue and green eyed kids were allowed to say mean things to us (she gave them what to say-so it didn't get too harsh.) That lesson made me cry. It moved me. I don't remember how much I understood before, but after I felt very passionate about Martin Luther King's words about judging people NOT for the color of their skin...but for the content of their character.
Anonymous
03/30/2015 11:11
Subject: Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
Anonymous wrote:I'm don't understand why our school is telling DS that If it wasn't for MLK he wouldn't be able to play with some of his classmates. Isn't this topic a little too deep for that age not to mention not being true...
I'm quoting the original post because I think people have been making some rather large assumptions about the level of "personalization" that occurred during this discussion.
I think that a teacher could say, if schools hadn't been desegregated, you all would have been in separate schools, or would not have been able to eat lunch together. That's not calling out the hypothetical "Susie" that people started using as an example. That's also not making Susie a victim now.
What it might do is make "Sally" (let's say she's white) hear her teacher, and then make the logical conclusion. "Hey, that's means I wouldn't be able to eat with my friend Susie.
It's really hard for people sometimes to get engaged in the idea of injustice when it is in the abstract. In the last few years, we've seen countless examples of right-wing politicians adjusting their beliefs on gay marriage. Why? Because they have a friend or family member that is gay.
Of course educators need to be age-appropriate, but everyone arguing against making this "personal" is wrong. Making it "personal" it often the only thing that's going to make people care.
Anonymous
03/30/2015 11:03
Subject: Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
I am annoyed my child's teachers haven't spent enough time on this. They have learned about Rosa Parks, etc, but I didn't get the sense they got any powerful and creative lessons. They learn to regurgitate facts, but I feel like you need to really move them emotionally. " My child could tell me in a robotic voice "Rosa Parks was not allowed to sit in the front of the bus because she was black, but she insisted and helped get equality." or something like that, but I had to say, "Wait a minute. SHE WASN'T ALLOWED TO SIT IN THE FRONT OF THE BUS JUST BECAUSE OF HER SKIN COLOR. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF THIS HAPPENED TO YOU? Can you even imagine that the world was this bad back then? What would you have done as a white person if you saw this happen on your bus? Do you know any kids who hate or fear others because of things like skin color, religion or special needs? " and so forth. They need to know this is a BIG deal.
Also, some of these kids come from families or even cultures where people are judged by the shade of their skin. They learn the lighter the better. Someone needs to plant the seed that this is not right.
Also, some of these kids come from families or even cultures where people are judged by the shade of their skin. They learn the lighter the better. Someone needs to plant the seed that this is not right.
Anonymous
03/30/2015 10:51
Subject: Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
Kids know their colors by age 3 or 4 and they recognize differences in color long before then. They are not colorblind. They can tell there are different skin colors.
Hopefully we all have our kids at schools with plenty of diversity. Some of the children in your child's class and/or their parents may have already faced discrimination. We should not put blinders on and assume kids are oblivious to these things. Also, sadly some of the parents of kids in your child's class may have prejudices they pass on their kids. You want to make sure they learn about the importance of equality somewhere so they can question any hatred they are taught.
Hopefully we all have our kids at schools with plenty of diversity. Some of the children in your child's class and/or their parents may have already faced discrimination. We should not put blinders on and assume kids are oblivious to these things. Also, sadly some of the parents of kids in your child's class may have prejudices they pass on their kids. You want to make sure they learn about the importance of equality somewhere so they can question any hatred they are taught.
Anonymous
03/28/2015 22:34
Subject: Re:Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
This is a shockingly ignorant statement.
agree
Anonymous
03/28/2015 22:30
Subject: Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
Anonymous wrote:It's a double standard - white parents don't want their children to learn about racism that black people have experienced in the past and currently experience and will complain until they're blue in the face.
Yet, their snowflakes can never learn enough about the Holocaust and anti-semitism which really do not have a long lasting impact on the Jews.
Fine, most people do not like Jews but no one is denying a Jew a job because they are a Jew. And Jews are the most successful minority in the world.
You cannot hide being black but you can sure as hell hide being a Jew.
The black experience in America and racism make most whites uncomfortable and the only way our society is going to get better is if we talk about these things.
This is a shockingly ignorant statement.
Anonymous
03/28/2015 22:26
Subject: Re:Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
Nobody is denying that slavery existed, either.
Anonymous
03/28/2015 22:23
Subject: Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
Anonymous wrote:It's a double standard - white parents don't want their children to learn about racism that black people have experienced in the past and currently experience and will complain until they're blue in the face.
Yet, their snowflakes can never learn enough about the Holocaust and anti-semitism which really do not have a long lasting impact on the Jews.
Fine, most people do not like Jews but no one is denying a Jew a job because they are a Jew. And Jews are the most successful minority in the world.
You cannot hide being black but you can sure as hell hide being a Jew.
The black experience in America and racism make most whites uncomfortable and the only way our society is going to get better is if we talk about these things.
My children have been taught about slavery, segregation & racism AND the Holocaust & anti-semitism at school. I see this as a good thing because, as you said, we need to talk about these things if we're going to move forward. I agree with you on that.
I also agree with you that African Americans face far more discrimination in the US today than do Jews ( though anti-semitism definitely still exists, as evdenced by your post!). It's quite untrue, however, that the Holocaust did not have a lasting impact on Jews. Not only are their numbers far fewer than they would have been if not for the Holocaust, grandchildren of Holocaust survivors are more likely to suffer from addiction, eating disorders s & other psychiatric illnesses. This article explains some of the reasons for this:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/new-israeli-study-finds-signs-of-trauma-in-grandchildren-of-holocaust-survivors-1.424480
Anonymous
03/28/2015 21:10
Subject: Re:Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
I think that there is a lot that the schools are trying to cover. There is the historical aspect of covering slavery, segregation, etc as part of US history. There is also the importance of covering the contributions of people of color and women not only to give a more complete picture of history but to inspire and possibly be that connection that of course someone that is a women, or black, or with a disability or any combination is capable of achieving extraordinary things.
I think the tricky part is if part of the goal is social justice and teaching people to be good citizens etc, the lesson has to be done in such a way that everyone can empathize or pull togther as opposed to singling people out.
My children are bi-racial so from a young age we have had conversations about race. I try to balance between making sure they are aware and not overemphazing race. I watched the I to am BCC video with the kids and we talked about it and how you would respond if someone said that they don't look like someone that would be in honors classes etc.
I think the tricky part is if part of the goal is social justice and teaching people to be good citizens etc, the lesson has to be done in such a way that everyone can empathize or pull togther as opposed to singling people out.
My children are bi-racial so from a young age we have had conversations about race. I try to balance between making sure they are aware and not overemphazing race. I watched the I to am BCC video with the kids and we talked about it and how you would respond if someone said that they don't look like someone that would be in honors classes etc.
Anonymous
03/28/2015 20:39
Subject: Re:Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Spend more time on Math and sciences, this crap gets in the way of what skills our country needs
It's not crap when you are a person of color and start getting called the N word around middle school. It's real and it happens. Just because you want to ignore it, doesn't make it go away. Enough with the science and math. Not everyone wants to be an engineer. Clearly from your post, we NEED some historians. You need a historian.
Clearly having second graders talk about it hasn't stopped people from using the n word in middle school which gets to what exactly the point of teaching this serves. My view is that it encourages people to look at AAs as other leading to the exact situation you describe.
Anonymous
03/28/2015 13:17
Subject: Re:Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
It's not crap when you are a person of color and start getting called the N word around middle school. It's real and it happens. Just because you want to ignore it, doesn't make it go away. Enough with the science and math. Not everyone wants to be an engineer. Clearly from your post, we NEED some historians. You need a historian.
I don't think I have read one post on this thread that has said to ignore it. I'm sorry for your experience. Just curious? Do you use the N word? I don't.
Anonymous
03/28/2015 13:08
Subject: Re:Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
You can draw comparisons to the history of African Americans in the US, and the treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany. One of the most critical things that we teach about the Holocaust is "never forget." It is important to talk about it, to know, to be aware. If we do not learn about what happened, and live our lives to make sure we do not make the same mistakes again, we are doomed to repeat the errors. And it starts young. When hatred is brewing, they indoctrinate young. The converse is true...if we teach children to be open-minded, they will be. Children do notice differences - and ignoring it gives more significance to those differences. In the same way we teach children not to make fun of or tease children with physical or cognitive disabilities and get to know them, and to be kind to elders, and to treat boys and girls the same way, we need to tell them that some people are blonde, and some people have brown hair, and some people have blue eyes, and some people have darker skin, and some people have lighter skin...and that there are people in this world who think the color of your skin or hair is of value, the truth is, we are all people and more than that. And it needs to start young - Dr. Seuss wrote the book about the star-bellied Sneetches for exactly this reason. Children need to learn young that war and bad things happen because people fail to look past the color of hair or skin or religious beliefs.
That doesn't mean it is appropriate to personalize it with the kids.
Im sorry, but yours is the privileged view of someone who is lucky enough to not have to think about their race. For many of those children, this IS personal, and it will continue to be personal throughout their lives. It won't hurt the little white kids to have to think about it for a day or two.
Sorry I'm not white but I guess all minorities think the sane cayuse you said so... I guess if some wise old AA said it's okay to marginalized kids all AA must think it's okay... Sheesh..
I'm trying to imagine a seven year old taking this personally and insisting on thus being discussed.
I don't even understand your post. What the hell are you trying to say?
Anonymous
03/28/2015 13:06
Subject: Re:Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
Anonymous wrote:Spend more time on Math and sciences, this crap gets in the way of what skills our country needs
It's not crap when you are a person of color and start getting called the N word around middle school. It's real and it happens. Just because you want to ignore it, doesn't make it go away. Enough with the science and math. Not everyone wants to be an engineer. Clearly from your post, we NEED some historians. You need a historian.
Anonymous
03/28/2015 12:30
Subject: Re:Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
Fine, most people do not like Jews but no one is denying a Jew a job because they are a Jew. And Jews are the most successful minority in the world.
Guess we know where you are coming from. Talk about bigotry.
Anonymous
03/28/2015 12:25
Subject: Re:Purpose of 2nd grade segregation chat..
It's a double standard - white parents don't want their children to learn about racism that black people have experienced in the past and currently experience and will complain until they're blue in the face.
Yet, their snowflakes can never learn enough about the Holocaust and anti-semitism which really do not have a long lasting impact on the Jews.
Fine, most people do not like Jews but no one is denying a Jew a job because they are a Jew. And Jews are the most successful minority in the world.
You cannot hide being black but you can sure as hell hide being a Jew.
The black experience in America and racism make most whites uncomfortable and the only way our society is going to get better is if we talk about these things.
You are putting forth a false narrative. I don't know about your kids, but mine learned a lot more about slavery and segregation than the Holocaust. I don't think anyone has said the kids shouldn't learn about these things, they have just said --and I agree as a teacher--that it should not be personalized. Just as I don't personalize little African American kids by telling everyone that Sally would have been left out of our class fifty years ago, I also would not say that Aaron would have been sent to the ovens. I am sure you mean well, but you really need to use a little common sense here.