Anonymous wrote:Lot's of open commercial real estate space in Alexandria. May be time to consider following Arlington's footsteps and modify one of them.

West Side: Beauregard and King area
Eisenhower East and West Ends: Eisenhower Avenue
Tucker Area: South Pickett
Potomac Yards: Route 1

Why the new School Board advanced the JH Elementary build still defies common sense, if not from location alone.

If you are familiar with the schools, it does make sense. The entire PTA Council (meaning the umbrella organization for all of the PTAs throughout the city) strongly endorsed J-H school as the "first one in line" when it came to making a new elementary.

1. First, they will always build on an existing site that ACPS owns whenever possible. There may be open commercial real estate in the City, but we'd still have to pay for it.

2. The old J-H was built when the educational "fad" was "open space classrooms". They were a big fad in the 1970s.
Imagine a room the size of a cafeteria. Imagine 6 (or more) spaces in that area that are defined by cubicle-size walls--meaning walls that only go up to the height of a standard cubicle. Now understand that those are 6 CLASSES that are all in that space, with no real separation, only the half-walls.
Now, start teaching and learning everybody!


J-H was the only school in Alexandria that still had this awful set up. It HAD to go.
When I say that PTAC united in their support for this, understand that there were and still are plenty of school that have pressing construction needs, but it was clear to everyone that J-H had to get fixed. Yes, it's still under-enrolled right now, but now they will do redistricting and all those beautiful new classrooms will fill up with students.
Win for everyone.

Lot's of open commercial real estate space in Alexandria. May be time to consider following Arlington's footsteps and modify one of them.

West Side: Beauregard and King area
Eisenhower East and West Ends: Eisenhower Avenue
Tucker Area: South Pickett
Potomac Yards: Route 1

Why the new School Board advanced the JH Elementary build still defies common sense, if not from location alone.

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why they haven't made any plans to build at least one or two new elementary schools in Alexandria City. Seems Potomac Yards area would have been a perfect location for a new one, given all the development in that area. Redistricting isn't the only way to fix the overcrowding, especially with all the continued growth forecast for the future. I hope they take a comprehensive approach.

I'll have two in elementary as of this fall (kinder and 2nd grade) and then a preschool aged child. I do hope they allow kids who are already enrolled in ACPS elementary to stay in their current schools.

There is a plan to build a new elementary school, but it will be several years from now. It's in the long-term CIP budget.
Theoretically there could be more capacity built into the redo of the Patrick Henry school.
I'm sure they will keep these measures in mind, but as stated upthread, we really are busting at the seams in a lot of schools. We are paying $$ to bus kids all over town because they can't fit into their neighborhood schools. I think they do need to think long-term, but on the other hand, I also think we need to make sure we don't wait another 15 years before we redistrict again.

I don't know why they haven't made any plans to build at least one or two new elementary schools in Alexandria City. Seems Potomac Yards area would have been a perfect location for a new one, given all the development in that area. Redistricting isn't the only way to fix the overcrowding, especially with all the continued growth forecast for the future. I hope they take a comprehensive approach.

I'll have two in elementary as of this fall (kinder and 2nd grade) and then a preschool aged child. I do hope they allow kids who are already enrolled in ACPS elementary to stay in their current schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools they site that are busting at the seems are mostly on the west side. However, those are the same areas where the Beauregard plan will have tons of gentrification expected to generate way less students. The city just had a hearing on some apartments on seminary (zoned for Polk Elementary) and said that the building currently generates 200+ kids to the public schools-- after the construction which starts this year it is expected to generate only 20 kids. Curious to see how they will handle rezoning if matriculation is expected to drop anyways.

That planning has been going on for years. They actually should have started by now but you can see it hasn't happened so I wouldn't expect changes anytime soon.
Also, the timeline for that is very long - something like 20 years before they get to the point of actually replacing the housing and the building new. So they need to continue to account for all those kids.

Agree with this. I think it's clear that as the Beauregard plans does move forward there will be a change in the numbers of children. It will not, however, be an immediate change. Even if we see a shift in 5 years, we need a solution that will help us address our current needs for the next several years.

I think an earlier PP made an interesting comment about living in a district with more frequent boundary adjustments. I think it would be healthier if school divisions just made it a part of their culture that there would be regular scheduled "moments" where the would be adjustments to the boundaries. I don't know exactly what the ideal time span would be--every 6 years? but I think if you don't have that mindset, the political will to go through the process gets harder and harder to generate. The last redistricting happened in 1999. After we go through this process, we can't wait another 16 years before our next redistricting. There will be too many shifts (Beauregard among them) that will require us to redistrict if we don't want completely lopsided schools again.

Anonymous wrote:The schools they site that are busting at the seems are mostly on the west side. However, those are the same areas where the Beauregard plan will have tons of gentrification expected to generate way less students. The city just had a hearing on some apartments on seminary (zoned for Polk Elementary) and said that the building currently generates 200+ kids to the public schools-- after the construction which starts this year it is expected to generate only 20 kids. Curious to see how they will handle rezoning if matriculation is expected to drop anyways.

That planning has been going on for years. They actually should have started by now but you can see it hasn't happened so I wouldn't expect changes anytime soon.
Also, the timeline for that is very long - something like 20 years before they get to the point of actually replacing the housing and the building new. So they need to continue to account for all those kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Make JH a lower FARMS school and take kids from behind the Masonic temple, parts of Rosemont, and new potomac hard to beef up the SES.

Look at home prices in those areas. Many people who can afford to buy there just aren't going to go to JH. They can afford other options. Or they can sell and move. Even houses currently zoned for JH are going for ridiculous amounts of money.

I know folks are frustrated that more parents in the J-H zone are not going public, and to a certain extent I share that frustration, but I think this person raises a good point. If you have enough money to buy in that neighborhood, it's also likely that dropping thousands of dollars a year for private school is not some big hardship. Even if J-H were a higher performing school, I think a number of these families still wouldn't attend, just because they aren't going to attend any public, period.

The schools that are succeeding have a critical mass of families that put a significant amount of their personal wealth in their home, are left with little extra $$ lying around to pay for private, and are therefore highly motivated to making their local public school a great school. Hopefully redistricting, along with the basic issue of overcrowding, would also help preserve these critical masses in each attendance zone--we get keep the diversity, but also have a core group of engaged motivated parents.

That's like at TC. It gets real old when your a critical mass family pulling up the scores/grades, engaged in PTA, clubs, sports, just to have your own kid and other critical mass kids be somewhat, if not mostly. on their own and families on their own on advocating for their kids needs. Ignoring this critical mass seems to work just fine. If you watch the Board meetings in 2014-2015, you can see this thinking in action and voting.

I think instead of focusing on the kids in the achievement gap categories that they should flip their focus and focus on the non achievement gap kids and see what happens. None of the efforts thus far have made a difference for those kids anyway.

Well, Maury is only 1/2 mile from JH, and it's a crappy old building with an unusable playground. They should close it and consolidate at JH. And then open a new elementary out by Potomac Yards. Rosemont is really close to JH, but Potomac Yards is actually quite far. Cora Kelly has some capacity, but Mount Vernon is completely packed

Great idea. Let's close one of the top performing Alexandria elementary schools, especially one that currently provides an opportunity for the 30 percent of FARMS students attending to go to a greatschools 7 or 8 school. Oh, and not to mention one that has spent years raising an enormous amount of money (and also some city money) to improve the schoolyard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have so many conflicting feelings about this. It's desperately needed, but my kid is starting kindergarten in 2016. Currently we are slated for Maury-but will certainly be moving th J-H. If done well, I think this could be a good thing, but I hate that I'll have to decide before I know for sure where we are and whether J-H becomes a decent choice of not.

I am wondering if the boundary for JH will move that much. Maybe JH would cover all of Old Town including the SE quadrant and make Lyles-Crouch an opt in school only with no boundary?

Another good choice would be to make Tucker a neighborhood school an eliminate the year round calendar.

Tucker is a neighborhood school--it just happens to have a year round calendar. You can opt-out of attending Tucker if that calendar doesn't work with your families schedule, and every year a handful of families do. Tucker isn't overcrowded because it has a bunch of kids from all over the city opting into it, its overcrowded because the West End is busting at the seams. Some of the schools can take in more students if they add modular classrooms, but the parcel of land that Tucker is on can't have any more buildings. It's deceptive if you are driving by because all you see is that large park, but the park is not actually school property.

No it was intended to be a neighborhood school but they either couldn't fill it at the time of construction or they needed to change e diversity elsewhere, the standard Tucker boundary includes a part that is not in Cameron Station. Essentially they bus in kids from elsewhere.

I guess it's all in how you define neighborhood. The Tucker zone includes Cameron Station, but also surrounding neighborhoods. Both city and school planners were surprised when they ended up with higher numbers of children coming from the housing in Cameron Station, but even if every single child in Cameron Station attended Tucker they would still not be at full capacity. If PP's definition of "neighborhood" school is "exclusively Cameron Station" that is not going to happen. The zone will most likely get smaller, but there will still be children coming from some of the nearby areas outside of Cameron Station.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am utterly convinced my area (the neighborhood behind the masonic temple and parts of rosemont closer to the king st metro) will be moved over to JH. It's so close.

That's a little paranoid. George Washington Park is closer to Maury and MacArthur, which it's zoned for now. Sending those kids to JH would be effectively a form of busing. It's the opposite of the stated goal of "neighborhood schools."

Well, Maury is only 1/2 mile from JH, and it's a crappy old building with an unusable playground. They should close it and consolidate at JH. And then open a new elementary out by Potomac Yards. Rosemont is really close to JH, but Potomac Yards is actually quite far. Cora Kelly has some capacity, but Mount Vernon is completely packed.

Anonymous wrote:The City should look beyond redistricting and also take this process as an opportunity to see what is and isn't working in the City. JH isn't working as is. Mount Vernon is a joke and isn't working - the dual language paradigm is failing all ESL and non-esl kids. Make MVCS a charter or focus dual language school that families can opt into. Make JH a lower FARMS school and take kids from behind the Masonic temple, parts of Rosemont, and new potomac hard to beef up the SES. Then JH will become a top performer like LCTA and Maury.

No school is perfect. But we go to MV and they hit it out of the park last year in growth and math. In fact, they are scoring better than some of the "good" schools in many categories. They are doing more with dual language than in the past (I have kids there in the past too), like explicit Spanish instruction, spelling words, etc. Not mad, just trying to change the tide of people thinking schools are doing bad when they are making accreditation and serving the challenged population. Sometimes the real challenge is beating the reputation from the past.

Also, redistricting will not immediately produce high performing schools. With 60% FRM in the whole city, the real change comes from having teachers in the class prepared to teach many different kids and services there to provide the basics (food and clothes).

I believe the schools at, or near, capacity are: Mason, Maury, Lyles Crouch, Tucker and Ramsey. Kids are not "bussed" anywhere in the term you're thinking . Some go to Polk, some to Barrett, they are all over the map. It isn't really *that* many kids though. It is cyclical.

Every school is above capacity except JH and Cora Kelly. There is a report on the Alexandria City site (Long Range Planning) which shows the students number in each school against how many the school was designed to hold. IT is quite shocking how many kids are over the intended number at each location.

The schools they site that are busting at the seems are mostly on the west side. However, those are the same areas where the Beauregard plan will have tons of gentrification expected to generate way less students. The city just had a hearing on some apartments on seminary (zoned for Polk Elementary) and said that the building currently generates 200+ kids to the public schools-- after the construction which starts this year it is expected to generate only 20 kids. Curious to see how they will handle rezoning if matriculation is expected to drop anyways.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Make JH a lower FARMS school and take kids from behind the Masonic temple, parts of Rosemont, and new potomac hard to beef up the SES.

Look at home prices in those areas. Many people who can afford to buy there just aren't going to go to JH. They can afford other options. Or they can sell and move. Even houses currently zoned for JH are going for ridiculous amounts of money.

I know folks are frustrated that more parents in the J-H zone are not going public, and to a certain extent I share that frustration, but I think this person raises a good point. If you have enough money to buy in that neighborhood, it's also likely that dropping thousands of dollars a year for private school is not some big hardship. Even if J-H were a higher performing school, I think a number of these families still wouldn't attend, just because they aren't going to attend any public, period.

The schools that are succeeding have a critical mass of families that put a significant amount of their personal wealth in their home, are left with little extra $$ lying around to pay for private, and are therefore highly motivated to making their local public school a great school. Hopefully redistricting, along with the basic issue of overcrowding, would also help preserve these critical masses in each attendance zone--we get keep the diversity, but also have a core group of engaged motivated parents.

That's like at TC. It gets real old when your a critical mass family pulling up the scores/grades, engaged in PTA, clubs, sports, just to have your own kid and other critical mass kids be somewhat, if not mostly. on their own and families on their own on advocating for their kids needs. Ignoring this critical mass seems to work just fine. If you watch the Board meetings in 2014-2015, you can see this thinking in action and voting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have so many conflicting feelings about this. It's desperately needed, but my kid is starting kindergarten in 2016. Currently we are slated for Maury-but will certainly be moving th J-H. If done well, I think this could be a good thing, but I hate that I'll have to decide before I know for sure where we are and whether J-H becomes a decent choice of not.

I am wondering if the boundary for JH will move that much. Maybe JH would cover all of Old Town including the SE quadrant and make Lyles-Crouch an opt in school only with no boundary?

Another good choice would be to make Tucker a neighborhood school an eliminate the year round calendar.

Tucker is a neighborhood school--it just happens to have a year round calendar. You can opt-out of attending Tucker if that calendar doesn't work with your families schedule, and every year a handful of families do. Tucker isn't overcrowded because it has a bunch of kids from all over the city opting into it, its overcrowded because the West End is busting at the seams. Some of the schools can take in more students if they add modular classrooms, but the parcel of land that Tucker is on can't have any more buildings. It's deceptive if you are driving by because all you see is that large park, but the park is not actually school property.

No it was intended to be a neighborhood school but they either couldn't fill it at the time of construction or they needed to change e diversity elsewhere, the standard Tucker boundary includes a part that is not in Cameron Station. Essentially they bus in kids from elsewhere.