Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, asking for sex it a huge turn-off.

Not for me. I'd rather dh would use words but he sees that as begging. What's wrong with being direct about what you want?

Men should just know. Forcefully pursuing sex even if she is playing "hard to get" is sexy. Shows his passion. Being desired makes her feel desirable. If he asks, it ruins the fantasy.

But, when she isn't playing hard to get but (even though saying the exact same words and taking the exact same actions) truly doesn't want to have sex with the guy, he should just know not to try to initiate sex. If he asks, it's creepy.

See also: Schrodinger's Rapist.

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, asking for sex it a huge turn-off.

Not for me. I'd rather dh would use words but he sees that as begging. What's wrong with being direct about what you want?

This emphasizes how lucky I am to be married to a man who is good in bed.

This emphasizes how lucky I am to be married to a horny woman.

Anonymous wrote:She doesn't care. She just wants to tell the OP, "Ha ha, you suck in bed. Loser." Why she wants to do this is potentially interesting though. Hates men? Lesbian? Had a husband who was a lazy piece of shit? Feels shame about her own lack of sexual response and wants to protect her own ego? Hard telling.

Right, little to no personal responsibility for the woman. We've seen this opinion expressed quite passionately with regularity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is projecting. Statistics dont lie. The majority of hetero women are left sexually unsatisfied.

If you were great in bed, your wife would want it more. Full stop. Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one. I know it's an ego blow, but being angry about that wont change it.

But that's not always true. Women's libidos often increase as they get older. Did their husbands miraculously get better in bed or are there factors independent of their partner in play?

It may be the husband has gotten lazy. But it sure as hell is possible there are factors outside his control.

Some of it is probably that the husbands or other partners (second husbands, boyfriends -- as the husbands die off -- etc) ARE better.

Some of it is also probably that the kids are growing/grown up and the wife isn't constantly tired from being the default parent anymore. Seriously, before I became a mother I had NO idea why mothers had low libidos. Pre-kids my DH and I were well matched on the SD front. Post kids, even though he's a good dad...he doesn't shoulder 50% of the parenting burden (he can't in some ways, not blaming) and I am much more physically and emotionally tired than he is. One our kids are older, I am SO looking forward to a libido bounce back!

And I'm not disagreeing that if a man is a better lover, his wife will want sex more often. My point is that there are often factors outside of his control that have more influence on a woman's libido- her biology/hormones and parenting obligations. So simply telling a guy he has to be a better lover may not necessarily remedy the situation. Plus, its pretty tough for a guy to get better if the frequency is low and his partner won't/can't tell him what she likes.

She doesn't care. She just wants to tell the OP, "Ha ha, you suck in bed. Loser." Why she wants to do this is potentially interesting though. Hates men? Lesbian? Had a husband who was a lazy piece of shit? Feels shame about her own lack of sexual response and wants to protect her own ego? Hard telling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sure. Wife will probably be better off and can find someone who can sexually satisfy her. Win win.

More likely outcome: bitter divorced shrew alone with many cats.

It's a win for the cats, anyway.

In your dreams...An attractive woman can find a new partner in ten minutes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is projecting. Statistics dont lie. The majority of hetero women are left sexually unsatisfied.

If you were great in bed, your wife would want it more. Full stop. Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one. I know it's an ego blow, but being angry about that wont change it.

But that's not always true. Women's libidos often increase as they get older. Did their husbands miraculously get better in bed or are there factors independent of their partner in play?

It may be the husband has gotten lazy. But it sure as hell is possible there are factors outside his control.

Some of it is probably that the husbands or other partners (second husbands, boyfriends -- as the husbands die off -- etc) ARE better.

Some of it is also probably that the kids are growing/grown up and the wife isn't constantly tired from being the default parent anymore. Seriously, before I became a mother I had NO idea why mothers had low libidos. Pre-kids my DH and I were well matched on the SD front. Post kids, even though he's a good dad...he doesn't shoulder 50% of the parenting burden (he can't in some ways, not blaming) and I am much more physically and emotionally tired than he is. One our kids are older, I am SO looking forward to a libido bounce back!

And I'm not disagreeing that if a man is a better lover, his wife will want sex more often. My point is that there are often factors outside of his control that have more influence on a woman's libido- her biology/hormones and parenting obligations. So simply telling a guy he has to be a better lover may not necessarily remedy the situation. Plus, its pretty tough for a guy to get better if the frequency is low and his partner won't/can't tell him what she likes.

With regard to sex not being part of a "bargain" in marriage because it's not paid for -- in that sense, is there anything that's part of the bargain in marriage?

If sex is not "owed," I'm curious what, if anything, is owed from one spouse to another.

Re: Be better in bed.

Lots of people don't know and/or won't say what turns them on. For a variety of reasons, women are less likely than men to know and say what turns them on. A man confronted with this can put in more effort. But, effort alone isn't necessarily going to do the trick. Trial & error is another good approach, but if sex is happening on a very limited basis, then trial & error isn't a viable solution. So, it's not uncommon for "being better" to be effectively off the table unless both spouses are willing to make that a goal.

And, really, the quality of sex is only one variable. A-game sexual prowess won't do a hell of a lot when it's competing against shitty hormones or exhaustion. (And mediocre sexual prowess is often sufficient when hormones are fueling instead of impeding sex.)

Anonymous wrote:
Sure. Wife will probably be better off and can find someone who can sexually satisfy her. Win win.

More likely outcome: bitter divorced shrew alone with many cats.

It's a win for the cats, anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time to outsource your needs, dude.

Knock yourself out. Just dont act surprised or offended when your wife files for divorce.

He should file himself. She's not holding up her end of the bargain.

The bargain? Women are not obligated to have sex with anyone, including their spouse. Sex should be a mutually enjoyable experience. If she's not liking it, then she's not going to want it.

Agreed 100%

I wonder if you did a survey of men, whether the men who had attitudes like "women are obligated to give men sex as part of the marriage 'bargain'" are the men who aren't getting any? And whether their attitudes caused their wives to stop wanting to have sex or whether the sex aspect of their relationships went south and then they adopted a more transactional worldview to protect their feelings?

Some very interesting considerations. I do feel for anyone who is sexually unfulfilled in their marriages, but I think making it a transaction is the wrong way to go.

Probably. I think some men get married because they want to be guaranteed sex- that's pretty much the only reasoning. And often, a woman who isn't confident in herself may go along with it, because she thinks she should get married and here is this seemingly good guy wanting to pair up.

And then, when they're mired in the trenches of marriage life and raising-children-life, they realize how totally incompatible they are.

So it self selects. A man who is not that good in bed is going to pick a woman who is not sexually experienced or confident. That woman is not going to enjoy sex all that much because she's never had great sex, and certainly isn't having it with her husband. It's a cycle.

Ok. That's one of the most idiotic things I've read on this topic.

OP, there's always more to it than that. If you don't know what it is and she won't tell, you guys have a deeper communication issue that needs to be addressed. It could be that she's afraid of what your reaction will be if she's honest with you, or that she's really angry with you for something and is withholding as a result, that she's so drained from the rest of her responsibilities that you simply telling her you need more sex feels like one more demand on her, etc. But unless you know the reason for the hostility, you know absolutely zero about what's going on here. The problem is that I don't really get the impression you care about understanding the root of that hostility, you just want it to go away so you can have more sex. And that little interest in her and what's going in her head guarantees she won't want to have sex with you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time to outsource your needs, dude.

Knock yourself out. Just dont act surprised or offended when your wife files for divorce.

He should file himself. She's not holding up her end of the bargain.

The bargain? Women are not obligated to have sex with anyone, including their spouse. Sex should be a mutually enjoyable experience. If she's not liking it, then she's not going to want it.

Agreed 100%

I wonder if you did a survey of men, whether the men who had attitudes like "women are obligated to give men sex as part of the marriage 'bargain'" are the men who aren't getting any? And whether their attitudes caused their wives to stop wanting to have sex or whether the sex aspect of their relationships went south and then they adopted a more transactional worldview to protect their feelings?

Some very interesting considerations. I do feel for anyone who is sexually unfulfilled in their marriages, but I think making it a transaction is the wrong way to go.

Probably. I think some men get married because they want to be guaranteed sex- that's pretty much the only reasoning. And often, a woman who isn't confident in herself may go along with it, because she thinks she should get married and here is this seemingly good guy wanting to pair up.

And then, when they're mired in the trenches of marriage life and raising-children-life, they realize how totally incompatible they are.

So it self selects. A man who is not that good in bed is going to pick a woman who is not sexually experienced or confident. That woman is not going to enjoy sex all that much because she's never had great sex, and certainly isn't having it with her husband. It's a cycle.

I'm sorry OP. Men posting on DCUM about their dissatisfaction with their wives always get flamed or shamed about their lack of sexual ability or helping out around the house. I always assumed that was because women are so tired of being fat and mommy shamed by each other so they need to lash out at someone else for a change.

I guess that's a good thing since they aren't attacking each other like they usually do.