Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we'd have to know the safety OP. Some safeties are terrible at getting kids into decent colleges. You might as well save your money and go public.

I'm the Baltimore person who posted earlier about "Door #3." What we've found so rewarding about DC's school is that the entire focus of high school hasn't been on getting into college. It's been about trying new things, forming relationships, and gaining a sense of self that we don't think would have been possible in our large public school, and also not about the college rat race that seems prevalent in the more elite schools.

I will say that I've also come to believe that schools don't reform the raw materials of the students that come to them, but rather refine them. If your child is in the 97th+ percentile on prep school admissions tests, he/she will probably be at roughly the same level on the SAT, and if he/she isn't there in 8th grade, he/she probably won't be there in 11th grade either. So we've chosen to focus less on the academic grind and more on the entire high school experience.

also in Baltimore area, and wondering what school you are posting about. Do you mind sharing? And I think we are fortinate in that the privates here are pretty transparent and it is fairly easy for parents to match schools to their child's learning style/temperment.

I'm hesitant to respond, because as someone else noted above, mentioning the name of the "less elite" school might well transform the thread into a referendum on the school's merits and debits. The experience we have found is summarized by Malcolm Gladwell in a chapter that is online here:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CD0QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ash.nl%2Fftpimages%2F401%2Fdownload%2Fdownload_1009994.pdf&ei=8Mf5VJKWB-_dsASC4IDgAw&usg=AFQjCNHHAVRnv2v3bpjCiaMPZhxEbfWI-Q&sig2=YX4BVfaxvu92sJ6jkkxf2A&bvm=bv.87611401,d.cWc

But since a few people have asked, it's St. Paul's Upper School. Our son is a high academic achiever, and was accepted at Gilman and McDonogh - SP awarded him a merit scholarship that really made a difference to us financially, and I think at first we were a little apologetic about not going for Gilman. I would have liked to see a bit more rigor in the lower grades, and while the engineering is excellent the lab sciences aren't great, but otherwise the IB program has provided sufficient academic challenge. What's mattered most is the seemingly institutional commitment to balance - do your best in school, but also have time to play sports, participate in extra-curriculars, and (!) even have some free time. Now, nearing the end of his junior year, we are so thankful he ended up where he did. He truly enjoys going to school every day. Meanwhile, he sees friends at Gilman unable to socialize because their workload is too high, and that pales in comparison to what he sees from kids in the AP track at a school like Dulaney. I would say he averages around 2 hours of homework per night, a little more when a big project is coming due, a little less some other nights. That means he has time to go to his athletic practice, shower, come home, have dinner with the family, and then work from roughly 7:30 until somewhere between 9 or 10.

I feel like that's the life we want. He's not stressed, we get to spend time together, and he's not doing 4 or 5 hours of homework every night. Maybe he's in for a big comeuppance when he gets to a selective university and is suddenly one of those kids who is swamped by a massively increased workload and heightened expectations. But I am optimistic that won't be the case, and as the days we have left to enjoy having him under our roof shrink at an astonishing rate, I'm so glad we're spending them with a happy kid.

I'm the first person who asked. Thanks for sharing. No debate here -- I've heard wonderful things about SP. Right now our son is thriving at Gilman (lower school) but if I feel like it's turned into too much of a pressure cooker in the upper school I won't hesitate to look elsewhere, including St. Paul's. Glad you found a place that works well for your family.

NP here. Our own experience was that we went with the school most DCUMr's would consider second tier (although in most of the country it could be the best school in town), and overall it was a wonderful experience for our very bright child. 9th grade was less challenging than DC could have handled, but DC was happy, gained confidence, and had time to stretch into EC's without over stressing. It ratcheted up noticeably in 10th, and by 11th I think ambitious kids at all good DC area privates are working very hard - seems no way around that in the current system. When you are taking classes that are the equivalent of APs (or actually APs depending on the private) and add in private school enrichment so it is not only taught to the test, and they are "meaningful" (tougher subject) APs, the kids in those classes work hard.

One of the primary differences between Sidwell/GDS and some schools that may be called "door number 3," is the percentage of the class that is skewed to the top, middle and lower part of the academic scale. And yes, there are kids in all three segments at both the biggest and smallest named schools in town. You will have more kids aiming for ivy and top LACs at the Big X school and fewer happy in the middle/lower end there than at other good privates, but there will be kids of all types in each. From what other parents tell me who have had kids in both our school and some of the Big X schools, there is more internal pressure at Big X school -- understandable - because more kids have the highest expectations. Not everyone is bothered by it; some kids thrive on it -- some certainly do not. That is kid specific and academic ability is not the only piece of that puzzle.

Objectively, if you child is toward the top end of the academic scale he/she will have more scheduling options at a school with more of those kids. And sometimes that can mean more EC opportunities in the academic realm (such as fielding It's Academic teams, debate teams, etc.) And for kids who have it "all together" so young, the exposure to more similar children can be motivating and also provide a larger social circle of like-talented kids. On the other hand, he/she may have more opportunities of other kinds when there are fewer such kids in his/her door number 3 school, and ECs need not all be so competitive when you are a younger teenager. It is also healthy for very smart kids at a young age to understand that there is nothing wrong with others who are not able to do calculus in 10th grade or write publishable material as freshman. That type of diversity is often overlooked in so-called elite private schools.

I would also note that developmentally, some children may be better off ramping up more slowly so that they can explore more interests outside of academics and catch up a bit more on social development in the early years of high school, and that is easier to do with more free time. Again, for some kids this is not an issue; for others, it is. But either way, evaluating it has nothing to do with a kids middle school grades or SSAT scores.

So our DC took the route of door No. 3 and is thriving happily in one of the most selective colleges, very well prepared for the rigors of its academics. At this point, DC appreciates the larger more academically homogeneous cohort that perhaps exists at Big X schools more than door no. 3 high schools, but remains close to DC's diverse group of high school friends as well as new college friends.

So OP, as you know there is no one right answer. There are pros and con's of going in either direction and where DC goes to high school does not need to determine absolutely one's college options certainly not ones life choices thereafter. Good luck with your decision.

OP, please choose a school where your child will be happiest and most engaged in academics. Don't choose it to be strategic about college admissions. That school will probably be the one she chooses, not the one you choose for her. Don't pick a school just so she'll "stand out" from her peers. She may prefer having more peers like her. BTW, even not-GDS and not-Sidwell have large groups of smart kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we'd have to know the safety OP. Some safeties are terrible at getting kids into decent colleges. You might as well save your money and go public.

I'm the Baltimore person who posted earlier about "Door #3." What we've found so rewarding about DC's school is that the entire focus of high school hasn't been on getting into college. It's been about trying new things, forming relationships, and gaining a sense of self that we don't think would have been possible in our large public school, and also not about the college rat race that seems prevalent in the more elite schools.

I will say that I've also come to believe that schools don't reform the raw materials of the students that come to them, but rather refine them. If your child is in the 97th+ percentile on prep school admissions tests, he/she will probably be at roughly the same level on the SAT, and if he/she isn't there in 8th grade, he/she probably won't be there in 11th grade either. So we've chosen to focus less on the academic grind and more on the entire high school experience.

also in Baltimore area, and wondering what school you are posting about. Do you mind sharing? And I think we are fortinate in that the privates here are pretty transparent and it is fairly easy for parents to match schools to their child's learning style/temperment.

I'm hesitant to respond, because as someone else noted above, mentioning the name of the "less elite" school might well transform the thread into a referendum on the school's merits and debits. The experience we have found is summarized by Malcolm Gladwell in a chapter that is online here:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CD0QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ash.nl%2Fftpimages%2F401%2Fdownload%2Fdownload_1009994.pdf&ei=8Mf5VJKWB-_dsASC4IDgAw&usg=AFQjCNHHAVRnv2v3bpjCiaMPZhxEbfWI-Q&sig2=YX4BVfaxvu92sJ6jkkxf2A&bvm=bv.87611401,d.cWc

But since a few people have asked, it's St. Paul's Upper School. Our son is a high academic achiever, and was accepted at Gilman and McDonogh - SP awarded him a merit scholarship that really made a difference to us financially, and I think at first we were a little apologetic about not going for Gilman. I would have liked to see a bit more rigor in the lower grades, and while the engineering is excellent the lab sciences aren't great, but otherwise the IB program has provided sufficient academic challenge. What's mattered most is the seemingly institutional commitment to balance - do your best in school, but also have time to play sports, participate in extra-curriculars, and (!) even have some free time. Now, nearing the end of his junior year, we are so thankful he ended up where he did. He truly enjoys going to school every day. Meanwhile, he sees friends at Gilman unable to socialize because their workload is too high, and that pales in comparison to what he sees from kids in the AP track at a school like Dulaney. I would say he averages around 2 hours of homework per night, a little more when a big project is coming due, a little less some other nights. That means he has time to go to his athletic practice, shower, come home, have dinner with the family, and then work from roughly 7:30 until somewhere between 9 or 10.

I feel like that's the life we want. He's not stressed, we get to spend time together, and he's not doing 4 or 5 hours of homework every night. Maybe he's in for a big comeuppance when he gets to a selective university and is suddenly one of those kids who is swamped by a massively increased workload and heightened expectations. But I am optimistic that won't be the case, and as the days we have left to enjoy having him under our roof shrink at an astonishing rate, I'm so glad we're spending them with a happy kid.

I'm glad it worked out so well for your family. St. Paul's is a very good school with a beautiful campus.

Don't agree with Malcolm Gladwell's piece though. Some people aren't cut out for the competitive world of academic science --I personally don't believe that either student would have done better in a different institution, they simply were average as scientists compared to others in the field.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we'd have to know the safety OP. Some safeties are terrible at getting kids into decent colleges. You might as well save your money and go public.

I'm the Baltimore person who posted earlier about "Door #3." What we've found so rewarding about DC's school is that the entire focus of high school hasn't been on getting into college. It's been about trying new things, forming relationships, and gaining a sense of self that we don't think would have been possible in our large public school, and also not about the college rat race that seems prevalent in the more elite schools.

I will say that I've also come to believe that schools don't reform the raw materials of the students that come to them, but rather refine them. If your child is in the 97th+ percentile on prep school admissions tests, he/she will probably be at roughly the same level on the SAT, and if he/she isn't there in 8th grade, he/she probably won't be there in 11th grade either. So we've chosen to focus less on the academic grind and more on the entire high school experience.

also in Baltimore area, and wondering what school you are posting about. Do you mind sharing? And I think we are fortinate in that the privates here are pretty transparent and it is fairly easy for parents to match schools to their child's learning style/temperment.

I'm hesitant to respond, because as someone else noted above, mentioning the name of the "less elite" school might well transform the thread into a referendum on the school's merits and debits. The experience we have found is summarized by Malcolm Gladwell in a chapter that is online here:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CD0QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ash.nl%2Fftpimages%2F401%2Fdownload%2Fdownload_1009994.pdf&ei=8Mf5VJKWB-_dsASC4IDgAw&usg=AFQjCNHHAVRnv2v3bpjCiaMPZhxEbfWI-Q&sig2=YX4BVfaxvu92sJ6jkkxf2A&bvm=bv.87611401,d.cWc

But since a few people have asked, it's St. Paul's Upper School. Our son is a high academic achiever, and was accepted at Gilman and McDonogh - SP awarded him a merit scholarship that really made a difference to us financially, and I think at first we were a little apologetic about not going for Gilman. I would have liked to see a bit more rigor in the lower grades, and while the engineering is excellent the lab sciences aren't great, but otherwise the IB program has provided sufficient academic challenge. What's mattered most is the seemingly institutional commitment to balance - do your best in school, but also have time to play sports, participate in extra-curriculars, and (!) even have some free time. Now, nearing the end of his junior year, we are so thankful he ended up where he did. He truly enjoys going to school every day. Meanwhile, he sees friends at Gilman unable to socialize because their workload is too high, and that pales in comparison to what he sees from kids in the AP track at a school like Dulaney. I would say he averages around 2 hours of homework per night, a little more when a big project is coming due, a little less some other nights. That means he has time to go to his athletic practice, shower, come home, have dinner with the family, and then work from roughly 7:30 until somewhere between 9 or 10.

I feel like that's the life we want. He's not stressed, we get to spend time together, and he's not doing 4 or 5 hours of homework every night. Maybe he's in for a big comeuppance when he gets to a selective university and is suddenly one of those kids who is swamped by a massively increased workload and heightened expectations. But I am optimistic that won't be the case, and as the days we have left to enjoy having him under our roof shrink at an astonishing rate, I'm so glad we're spending them with a happy kid.

Thank you for this perspective. I myself could use a little more of this kind of wisdom in my choices for our kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we'd have to know the safety OP. Some safeties are terrible at getting kids into decent colleges. You might as well save your money and go public.

I'm the Baltimore person who posted earlier about "Door #3." What we've found so rewarding about DC's school is that the entire focus of high school hasn't been on getting into college. It's been about trying new things, forming relationships, and gaining a sense of self that we don't think would have been possible in our large public school, and also not about the college rat race that seems prevalent in the more elite schools.

I will say that I've also come to believe that schools don't reform the raw materials of the students that come to them, but rather refine them. If your child is in the 97th+ percentile on prep school admissions tests, he/she will probably be at roughly the same level on the SAT, and if he/she isn't there in 8th grade, he/she probably won't be there in 11th grade either. So we've chosen to focus less on the academic grind and more on the entire high school experience.

also in Baltimore area, and wondering what school you are posting about. Do you mind sharing? And I think we are fortinate in that the privates here are pretty transparent and it is fairly easy for parents to match schools to their child's learning style/temperment.

I'm hesitant to respond, because as someone else noted above, mentioning the name of the "less elite" school might well transform the thread into a referendum on the school's merits and debits. The experience we have found is summarized by Malcolm Gladwell in a chapter that is online here:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CD0QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ash.nl%2Fftpimages%2F401%2Fdownload%2Fdownload_1009994.pdf&ei=8Mf5VJKWB-_dsASC4IDgAw&usg=AFQjCNHHAVRnv2v3bpjCiaMPZhxEbfWI-Q&sig2=YX4BVfaxvu92sJ6jkkxf2A&bvm=bv.87611401,d.cWc

But since a few people have asked, it's St. Paul's Upper School. Our son is a high academic achiever, and was accepted at Gilman and McDonogh - SP awarded him a merit scholarship that really made a difference to us financially, and I think at first we were a little apologetic about not going for Gilman. I would have liked to see a bit more rigor in the lower grades, and while the engineering is excellent the lab sciences aren't great, but otherwise the IB program has provided sufficient academic challenge. What's mattered most is the seemingly institutional commitment to balance - do your best in school, but also have time to play sports, participate in extra-curriculars, and (!) even have some free time. Now, nearing the end of his junior year, we are so thankful he ended up where he did. He truly enjoys going to school every day. Meanwhile, he sees friends at Gilman unable to socialize because their workload is too high, and that pales in comparison to what he sees from kids in the AP track at a school like Dulaney. I would say he averages around 2 hours of homework per night, a little more when a big project is coming due, a little less some other nights. That means he has time to go to his athletic practice, shower, come home, have dinner with the family, and then work from roughly 7:30 until somewhere between 9 or 10.

I feel like that's the life we want. He's not stressed, we get to spend time together, and he's not doing 4 or 5 hours of homework every night. Maybe he's in for a big comeuppance when he gets to a selective university and is suddenly one of those kids who is swamped by a massively increased workload and heightened expectations. But I am optimistic that won't be the case, and as the days we have left to enjoy having him under our roof shrink at an astonishing rate, I'm so glad we're spending them with a happy kid.

Anonymous wrote:I agree about grade deflation and workload at Sidwell. But on the positive side there are so many wonderful opportunities and the teachers are very giving of their time and attention one-on-one,especially to kids who can't afford tutors. My DS is a junior and got FA. Because of Sidwell he has been over seas multiple times, played with professional musicians, attended national level conferences, eaten lunch with Ambassadors, etc. etc. He has learned more in high school than I did at a well known college. He has also learned there is more to life than straight As. His time management is amazing. I will be forever thankful for the opportunities this school is giving him.

Well said!

Anonymous wrote:DD is having s hard time deciding where to go for highschool. Thrilled she got into GDS and Sidwell, not really considering her 3rd choice which she was also admitted to. We are torn and wondering if 3rd choice just may be better---less stress, maybe easier to standout academically. Do these things matter when college rolls around? I know it's crazy to think of college now, but is it better to come from a big name school like GDS or Sidwell....or to be a big fish in a little pond at a smaller, less prestigious school.

For HS, I would let your daughter choose. You can't predict the future, and if she got into GDS and SFS, they think she can handle the work. They are both great schools; if you focus on the experience there, and emphasize that to her over just her rank/ college success in her class, she will likely come out having had a very rich experience. If she hates 9th grade, you can always move her for 10th as well.

Please tell me your safety is not field

Sidwell parent...OP, I don't agree either that the kids are competitive against each other. On the contrary, there's a great deal of cooperation e.g. face group homework sessions, study groups, kids using free period time to help other kids, sharing of notes for sick days. Agree it can be very hard but that's not a given for every kid to the exact same extent The degree of difficulty is very much related to the combination of schedule and teachers they have in that year. I suspect that the same can be said of many schools in the area. The schools accepted your kid because they feel your kid can do the work. No matter where she ends up going, please keep in mind too that the ninth grade entry year is rough all around. Every freshman is adjusting to greater academic and social freedom plus the new kids may also be dealing temporarily with disconnects in their studies. I would think curriculums between schools are seldom a perfect match. I do think that the degree to which your kid is comfortable, or strives, being an independent learner, at this age, will either minimize or increase the degree of stress at Sidwell. Our experience is that the faculty is incredibly supportive but these kids get stretched to see how far they can get on their own at times...like in college except there's a net. That is not the best environment for every kid but is perfect for others. So if you accept the premise that rigor can vary even within each school, perhaps go with the school that makes your kid all happy and excited about attending. That's really all you can do for her. Only she can determine the extent to which she will have later choices. Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we'd have to know the safety OP. Some safeties are terrible at getting kids into decent colleges. You might as well save your money and go public.

I'm the Baltimore person who posted earlier about "Door #3." What we've found so rewarding about DC's school is that the entire focus of high school hasn't been on getting into college. It's been about trying new things, forming relationships, and gaining a sense of self that we don't think would have been possible in our large public school, and also not about the college rat race that seems prevalent in the more elite schools.

I will say that I've also come to believe that schools don't reform the raw materials of the students that come to them, but rather refine them. If your child is in the 97th+ percentile on prep school admissions tests, he/she will probably be at roughly the same level on the SAT, and if he/she isn't there in 8th grade, he/she probably won't be there in 11th grade either. So we've chosen to focus less on the academic grind and more on the entire high school experience.

also in Baltimore area, and wondering what school you are posting about. Do you mind sharing? And I think we are fortinate in that the privates here are pretty transparent and it is fairly easy for parents to match schools to their child's learning style/temperment.

Anonymous wrote:I think that the top schools become more competitive in HS.. It's hard to tell how well a kids will perform academically from preK. But the kids applying for 9th are already self selective. If your child is not getting the grade you think they deserve at Sidwell then they probably won't get that grade in an IVY either.

Even if your kids get into an Ivy/Ivy-peer school, it's still a bummer to see them give up so much for the sake of a crushing workload. We wouldn't do it again. And, to be honest, some teachers are amazing, but others are just meh . . . or worse.

Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between challenge, rigor and punitive grading. Sidwell teachers are known for being harsh graders. Classes can be rigorous and challenging without the punitive grades. Sidwell does not focus on intellectualism and deep thinking. It's focus is on piling on the work and seeing who survives.

Actually, I think there's an emphasis on both "rigor" (aka, needlessly piling on work) and deep thinking -- that's what makes it hard to leave.

I agree about grade deflation and workload at Sidwell. But on the positive side there are so many wonderful opportunities and the teachers are very giving of their time and attention one-on-one,especially to kids who can't afford tutors. My DS is a junior and got FA. Because of Sidwell he has been over seas multiple times, played with professional musicians, attended national level conferences, eaten lunch with Ambassadors, etc. etc. He has learned more in high school than I did at a well known college. He has also learned there is more to life than straight As. His time management is amazing. I will be forever thankful for the opportunities this school is giving him.

This is what I worry about having a young child at one of the two schools mentioned. It seems like the kids entering at a later time 6th or 9th really have proven they can handle the workload.