Anonymous wrote:Agree with 11:48 completely.

me too. but it doesn’t answer the question: why Mandarin?

Agree with 11:48 completely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a remarkably blinkered view of the utility of learning.

+1 Learning another language helps your brain work in different ways. IMO, it shouldn't be just viewed for utilitarian purposes, ie, it will help me get ahead. I studied French and speak another Asian dialect; my DH is from the UK, and he studied German, a bit of Spanish and French. We found it a bit useful when we traveled abroad. In school, learning about the culture was also a part of learning the language.

I would tell your kids to learn whatever language they want to learn, even if it's Latin, which is helpful for premed/prelaw. It just makes you a more well-rounded person and exercises your brain in different ways, kind of like learning to play an instrument.

That's a fine attitude if you're subscribing to the theory that learning a language is just good brain expansion. If that's your view, a child could learn Klingon (for example) and get the same benefit. And I agree that learning about different things is useful. But personally, I'd imagine most children would get more out taking three years of an "international culture" course where they learn (in English) about the history, politics, and culture of another country (or countries), perhaps even with a little basic conversational work on the country's language, than they do taking a full-on language course for 3+ years.

How much of your high school French/German/Spanish do you really remember now? Not much, I bet. Was it really worth 4 years of class time in high school? Not IMHO.

How much calculus do you remember and use? Probably none, especially if you are not in the STEM field. But, I bet you took math at least up to Calculus.

A child could learn Klingon, but that would have zero value, except maybe at the Star Trek convention or the Klingon camp. At least with real foreign languages, you could use it while travelling. Additionally, a lot of the languages are very similar, so if you know Spanish, you could probably communicate a little bit in a French or Italian speaking country. A friend, who is from South America, traveled to Italy and was able to communicate a bit with the locals in Spanish. I think that's wonderful.

Along those lines, why do we need to read Shakespeare, Whitman, and the like in HS. Are we ever going to use it? Maybe if you become a writer, which I'm not. But, I had to read all of that in school.

We read those books, learn math up to Calculus and learn foreign languages because it helps exercise different parts of your brain and makes you a more well-rounded person. And in the end, you become a more educated person. That's the goal of an education.

The PP nailed it but for what it's worth:

OP makes valid points as do many of the respondents who pointed out that the utility of Mandarin outside of China, Taiwan, HK and Singapore is fairly limited. This could also be said of most other foreign languages we study in US schools. German, French and Russian are certainly of limited use when you are in the US. China is indeed an important economic power and a major trade partner of the US and this is unlikely to change however the number of business meetings or trade negotiations conducted in Mandarin between Chinese and Americans is tiny. English is and will remain the leading business and diplomatic language (not French which hasn't had this status in decades except maybe in West Africa).

I studied Chinese in college, lived in China for two years after college during which time I was conversational in the language and worked as a translator. Since returning over a decade ago I have since worked in the intelligence community, trade-focused parts of the government and a think tank. Every one of these positions focused on Asia - most on China. I have found that Asian language skills are valued more as a screening tool when reviewing resumes than actually of any use in the respective positions. State dept types also like to use their (generally mediocre) language skills as a sort of corny ice breaker with foreign delegations before conducting a meeting in English. In my current position I travel perhaps 4-6 times per year to Asia. I cover a region from Korea down to Indonesia. I have neither the time nor the brain power to develop any real facility in the 10+ languages I encounter in those travels. In Hong Kong I find my Chinese is useful (and fun) for speaking with cab drivers and waitstaff. All business negotiations are conducted in English. In Taiwan and China this largely applies as well though I do speak exclusively in Chinese with a few old friends who speak no English. Chit chatting with people and catching up with a few friends doesn't really justify a serious engagement of time and money in learning a language.

As someone who has valued foreign language acquisition and invested a lot of time and money in it I have come to the sad realization that if you have fluent English and no particularly strong tie or interest in any single country or language area then foreign language skills are not of much use. This isn't just for Americans - Germans doing business internationally use English, Swedes vacationing in Thailand use English, Japanese discussing a sourcing contract in Vietnam use English.

Sure, if you are committed to living in country X for some extended period of time or you travel there frequently, have relatives you wish to communicate with, are really really interested in the literature or history then learn the language but for most Americans - even those like myself who travel to Asia on business 4-6 times per year it is of questionable value.

As for learning Mandarin to speak to Mandarin speakers in this area I find that hard to justify. Most of them may speak some English and as a PP pointed out, this is a statistically insignificant percentage of the population. Unless you have a specific need to engage with that population (social work, police, sales and marketing) I really can't see the wisdom of investing in learning the language. You can find lots of opportunities to use Portuguese in Providence RI but that doesn't mean it makes sense for most people up there to learn it.

Does it make sense to learn Chinese if you will be living in China? Sure; Travelling there a lot? Maybe.
Will learning Chinese bring tremendous job opportunities here in the US? I haven't seen it.

This is not to say "Don't learn Chinese" but it is to suggest that combining a skill of questionable utility like Chinese with something more useful like economics, science or engineering makes more sense.

Don't get me wrong - I think those of you who expect your child to get lots more from reading literature in the original language, or who expect your child to spend lots of time looking at street signs in Prague, should absolutely have the option of encouraging your child to study Mandarin now, if you really think there is some link there.

Speaking for myself though, I think that time is better spent on other pursuits. And I would rankle at any requirement that my child spend a lot of time studying foreign language. I think the time is better spend studying science or history or culture or many other subjects.

I know there's a long history of schools requiring foreign language study at high school, and now that trend seems to have extended to pushing younger children into language study. My own kids are learning a couple other languages at school. There's little I can do to challenge this trend, but I think it's a little silly and not the best use of time. I'll oppose it if given a voice in the process, but I suspect I will be a minority.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How much of your high school French/German/Spanish do you really remember now? Not much, I bet. Was it really worth 4 years of class time in high school? Not IMHO.

How much of anything from high school do I really remember now? Not much. Therefore, almost everything I did in high school was a waste of time.

(I don't actually believe this.)

I agree, and was about to write almost the same thing. We don't have to remember every detail of everything we have ever learned to be educated people.

I'd say you have to remember quite a bit. If you successfully forget most of what you learn, you are not educating yourself, you are exercising your short-term memory.

A lot of things are lost in translation. Learning different language helps you appreciate great literature in its original form.

It is not for everyone, as we can see here. But I wish I had the opportunity to learn more languages. I will start a new one once my little one is out of elementary school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How much of your high school French/German/Spanish do you really remember now? Not much, I bet. Was it really worth 4 years of class time in high school? Not IMHO.

How much of anything from high school do I really remember now? Not much. Therefore, almost everything I did in high school was a waste of time.

(I don't actually believe this.)

I agree, and was about to write almost the same thing. We don't have to remember every detail of everything we have ever learned to be educated people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a remarkably blinkered view of the utility of learning.

+1 Learning another language helps your brain work in different ways. IMO, it shouldn't be just viewed for utilitarian purposes, ie, it will help me get ahead. I studied French and speak another Asian dialect; my DH is from the UK, and he studied German, a bit of Spanish and French. We found it a bit useful when we traveled abroad. In school, learning about the culture was also a part of learning the language.

I would tell your kids to learn whatever language they want to learn, even if it's Latin, which is helpful for premed/prelaw. It just makes you a more well-rounded person and exercises your brain in different ways, kind of like learning to play an instrument.

That's a fine attitude if you're subscribing to the theory that learning a language is just good brain expansion. If that's your view, a child could learn Klingon (for example) and get the same benefit. And I agree that learning about different things is useful. But personally, I'd imagine most children would get more out taking three years of an "international culture" course where they learn (in English) about the history, politics, and culture of another country (or countries), perhaps even with a little basic conversational work on the country's language, than they do taking a full-on language course for 3+ years.

How much of your high school French/German/Spanish do you really remember now? Not much, I bet. Was it really worth 4 years of class time in high school? Not IMHO.

I remember quite a bit, and it was absolutely worth the time! I got a new perspective on English grammar through my study of French. I took a year or so of Spanish as an adult, and my background in French definitely helped me pick up Spanish. We love to travel, and my study of French has absolutely helped me there -- not just in French-speaking places (not just france but Montreal, various Caribbean destinations, and Switzerland), but also in non-French-speaking nations. When I went to Spain, if I didn't know the Spanish word, I'd try the French word with my approximation of a Spanish accent, and a good 40-50% of the time that worked (mostly wfor more formal, Latinate words). I could decipher street signs & storefronts in Romania, because it's a Romance language, just like French and Spanish.

And in my experience, studying -any- language helps you pick up subsequent languages. I took a year of Japanese in college, and while I've never been to Japan, I don't regret it for a minute. It doesn't seem likely that studying French and Japanese would make it easier for me to navigate in Budapest and Prague, but I think it did. I really think it does something to your brain.

useless, that is

Anonymous wrote:

How much of your high school French/German/Spanish do you really remember now? Not much, I bet. Was it really worth 4 years of class time in high school? Not IMHO.

How much of anything from high school do I really remember now? Not much. Therefore, almost everything I did in high school was a waste of time.

(I don't actually believe this.)

^^I heard a segment on NPR about foreign languages and brain science. Actually, the segment was about the publication bias in science, but the example was about language learning. Bottom line: No, learning foreign languages (early or later) does not "expand" your bain. You work with what you got. Some people are good at languages. Some are good at math. Or drawing. They are not connected. (I'm pretty good with languages, but completely useful with higher levels of math or natural sciences. Alas, learning multiple languages did not expand my brain enough to accomodate Theoretical Physics, for example.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I realize the multiple benefits of language learning, I do agree that language immersion in Mandarin for 3-year olds is purely fashion and will go out of style when the time comes. Yes, it is those anxious mommies trying to give their snowflakes an edge but going about it in ways they can humblebrag about to their girlfriends on FB. Their hearts are in the right place though, so let them be

So which language should people be immersing their three-year-olds in? Or do you think that three-year-olds don't need to be learning any foreign language at all?

NP. I think Spanish would be great. It's easier to learn and even little bits of conversational fluency could be useful on a daily basis. It's not my favorite language, but its utility is undeniable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I realize the multiple benefits of language learning, I do agree that language immersion in Mandarin for 3-year olds is purely fashion and will go out of style when the time comes. Yes, it is those anxious mommies trying to give their snowflakes an edge but going about it in ways they can humblebrag about to their girlfriends on FB. Their hearts are in the right place though, so let them be

So which language should people be immersing their three-year-olds in? Or do you think that three-year-olds don't need to be learning any foreign language at all?

People should be immersing their three-year-olds in potty-training. No, I don't think three-year-olds need to be learning a foreign language. They will do as well if they start at 7. Anecdotally, I didn't have any foreign language exposure before about 10. My English is quite passable, wouldn't you say?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a remarkably blinkered view of the utility of learning.

+1 Learning another language helps your brain work in different ways. IMO, it shouldn't be just viewed for utilitarian purposes, ie, it will help me get ahead. I studied French and speak another Asian dialect; my DH is from the UK, and he studied German, a bit of Spanish and French. We found it a bit useful when we traveled abroad. In school, learning about the culture was also a part of learning the language.

I would tell your kids to learn whatever language they want to learn, even if it's Latin, which is helpful for premed/prelaw. It just makes you a more well-rounded person and exercises your brain in different ways, kind of like learning to play an instrument.

That's a fine attitude if you're subscribing to the theory that learning a language is just good brain expansion. If that's your view, a child could learn Klingon (for example) and get the same benefit. And I agree that learning about different things is useful. But personally, I'd imagine most children would get more out taking three years of an "international culture" course where they learn (in English) about the history, politics, and culture of another country (or countries), perhaps even with a little basic conversational work on the country's language, than they do taking a full-on language course for 3+ years.

How much of your high school French/German/Spanish do you really remember now? Not much, I bet. Was it really worth 4 years of class time in high school? Not IMHO.