Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 16:21     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
Anonymous wrote:MCPS will never build another 300 child school. They are not cost efficient. I think they just raised the size for elementaries to allow for 800 (?) kids.


What if there isn't room available for another 800-student campus? Bethesda is pretty built out already.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 15:36     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
Can the 2-3 people who jacked this topic to talk about the CCT/BRT or whatever please go start a separate thread? I get that there are transportation issues related to the Westbard redevelopment, but it's now become so far afield as to hinder discussion among those concerned about the school situation. Thanks.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 15:35     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
Anonymous wrote:

I like the other poster's idea about M-83, which would connect Clarksburg to Shady Grove Metro and/or running a BRT (or buses) directly down (0-2 stops along a direct route would be fine). Instead, what we are offered is the CCT, which twists and loops its way through Germantown, Gaithersburg, and Rockville and is ultimately used to justify development.

As for my preferences regarding "Science City", I prefer low density development in accordance with the donor's intent. Then there would be no need to run a BRT through that neighorhood.


M-83 (the highway project from Montgomery Village to Clarksburg) and the CCT (the bus rapid transit project from Shady Grove Metro to Metropolitan Grove in Gaithersburg) are not competing projects. The planning is different, the funding is different, and the agency in charge is different.

Also, M-83 would not connect Clarksburg to Shady Grove Metro. M-83 is supposed to be an alternative to 270 and 355.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 15:30     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's what they want to jack your property taxes to build.

What a joke.

http://cctmaryland.com/images/stories/documents/maps/lpa/Description_of_Project_rev.pdf


The routing seems reasonable -- funnel people to Shady Grove Metro. But why can't the just put Ride-On buses on that route. In fact, aren't there already Ride-On buses serving that route?


For a little context. It would take at least 45 minutes to ride end to end. Everything between LSC Belward and DANAC, including that silly little loop in the dotted line is set up to justify the construction of the "Science City." If you keep that project low density, you could run the BRT from Kentlands direct to DANAC, which would serve the existing development including the massively bloated Crown project which is already well underway. Then you could build a much more rider friendly system - or just skip building the thing altogether.

Oh yeah, a lot of the stops don't have a parking lot planned. How's that for user friendly?



The CCT is stupid for many reasons, not including its lack of parking lots.

But it is important to keep in mind that while the CCT will be bus rapid transit, instead of light rail, the CCT is not BRT. It was on the books long before the county's BRT plan, and it was originally planned as light rail. Also, if the CCT gets built, it will be because of Belward Farm. JHU can't build anything at Belward Farm until the first phase of the CCT is funded. That gives JHU a big incentive to promote the funding of the CCT.

Also, the difference between just running more Ride-On buses and the CCT is that the CCT will run in bus-only lanes, whereas the Ride-On buses sit in the same traffic back-ups as everybody else.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 15:08     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
For 14:46 - the Radnor Center, the holding school off Goldsboro, is in terrible shape. I believe MCPS plans to renovate or rebuild it after Wood Acres leaves following the 2015-16 school year, but it's still slated to be used as a holding school -- a place to which you can relocate an entire elementary school while that school is being renovated.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 14:54     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Here's what they want to jack your property taxes to build.

What a joke.

http://cctmaryland.com/images/stories/documents/maps/lpa/Description_of_Project_rev.pdf


The routing seems reasonable -- funnel people to Shady Grove Metro. But why can't the just put Ride-On buses on that route. In fact, aren't there already Ride-On buses serving that route?



For a little context. It would take at least 45 minutes to ride end to end. Everything between LSC Belward and DANAC, including that silly little loop in the dotted line is set up to justify the construction of the "Science City." If you keep that project low density, you could run the BRT from Kentlands direct to DANAC, which would serve the existing development including the massively bloated Crown project which is already well underway. Then you could build a much more rider friendly system - or just skip building the thing altogether.

Oh yeah, a lot of the stops don't have a parking lot planned. How's that for user friendly?

Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 14:47     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
Anonymous wrote:Here's what they want to jack your property taxes to build.

What a joke.

http://cctmaryland.com/images/stories/documents/maps/lpa/Description_of_Project_rev.pdf


The routing seems reasonable -- funnel people to Shady Grove Metro. But why can't the just put Ride-On buses on that route. In fact, aren't there already Ride-On buses serving that route?
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 14:46     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
Anonymous wrote:OP, back again.

In terms of where a new elementary school could go, how about the site of Washington Waldorf School, next door to the Defense Mapping Agency site on Sangamore?

Years ago it was an MCPS elementary school (Brookmont Elementary).

The existing building would have to be knocked down and the school rebuilt. But you could send Sumner and Glen Echo Heights kids to that new school, relieving Wood Acres of enough pressure to make room for the new arrivals in Westbard.

Has this been mentioned as a possibility (the site, if not who would go to the school)?



Or how about re-purposing the current holding school off of Goldsboro?
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 14:43     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
Anonymous wrote:When did this turn into the transportation planning forum?



Like the MDOT, MCPS exists to serve developer interests.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 14:42     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
Here's what they want to jack your property taxes to build.

What a joke.

http://cctmaryland.com/images/stories/documents/maps/lpa/Description_of_Project_rev.pdf
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 14:39     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
When did this turn into the transportation planning forum?
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 14:33     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?


I agree with you that there are staging requirements for funding the CCT in the Great Seneca Science Corridor Master Plan. This is also a good thing: no funding for the CCT (from Shady Grove to Metropolitan Grove), no development at Belward Farm. Or would you prefer no staging requirements?

What transit funding do you want to use to improve transit access for Clarksburg and northern Gaithersburg? How much would it cost to build these 2 additional Metro stops, and how would you pay for it?



I like the other poster's idea about M-83, which would connect Clarksburg to Shady Grove Metro and/or running a BRT (or buses) directly down (0-2 stops along a direct route would be fine). Instead, what we are offered is the CCT, which twists and loops its way through Germantown, Gaithersburg, and Rockville and is ultimately used to justify development.

As for my preferences regarding "Science City", I prefer low density development in accordance with the donor's intent. Then there would be no need to run a BRT through that neighorhood.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 14:27     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
Anonymous wrote:OP, back again.

In terms of where a new elementary school could go, how about the site of Washington Waldorf School, next door to the Defense Mapping Agency site on Sangamore?

Years ago it was an MCPS elementary school (Brookmont Elementary).

The existing building would have to be knocked down and the school rebuilt. But you could send Sumner and Glen Echo Heights kids to that new school, relieving Wood Acres of enough pressure to make room for the new arrivals in Westbard.

Has this been mentioned as a possibility (the site, if not who would go to the school)?


MCPS signed a 30-year lease with the Waldorf school in 2012, so no -- I don't think that's an option (good planning, MCPS!)
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 14:25     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

More roads isn't the solution to all the problems, but I think it's part of the solution, along with public transport.

All we have right now is 4 lanes on 495, and it's been that way for 20+ years. So far, I have heard no talk of adding a public transport link, and the current option (red line into DC, then silver line back out) isn't that feasible for most people. What do you propose instead?


Great points. Another point is that a lot of the traffic crossing the American Legion bridge comprises trucks and other commercial vehicles transiting through the region. A well-designed bypass route would hopefully alleviate some of that traffic as well.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2015 14:21     Subject: Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?
Anonymous wrote:

BRT bill comes in at $5 billion:
http://robertdyer.blogspot.com/2013/11/fact-checking-montgomery-county-brt.html

More roads isn't the solution to all the problems, but I think it's part of the solution, along with public transport. The population in this area is going up, and that's nothing we can change. More people means not only more need for people to get around, but also goods and products, because we have more consumers. Not expanding road infrastructure seems like a poor decision -- it hinders both people and goods from moving easily.

I see no change in there being plenty of trade and jobs between MoCo and NoVA. How else will people and goods move around? All we have right now is 4 lanes on 495, and it's been that way for 20+ years. So far, I have heard no talk of adding a public transport link, and the current option (red line into DC, then silver line back out) isn't that feasible for most people. What do you propose instead?


The ENTIRE BRT network may come in at $5 billion, however Robert Dyer decided to calculate it. But nobody is proposing to build that right now. How much is BRT on 355 from Friendship Heights to Clarksburg, compared to M-83 just from Montgomery Village to Clarksburg? Also, how well will BRT serve to give people transportation choices, compared to M-83? Also, how many acres of wetlands, floodplains, and forests will BRT cross, compared to M-83?

Yes, by all means, let's start talking about public transportation links between Maryland and Virginia. That's a great idea.