Anonymous
11/08/2015 13:13
Subject: Secular family values rock!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:"I went in grieving deeply and came out wishing I could clear my head of the hateful rants of a very angry man. And so glad we're not raising our kids religiously."
You do realize most Christian churches do not operate this way?
I'm glad we are raising our kids with Christianity, certainly not this misrepresentation of it. Do what you want in your own home, but don't paint religion with such a broad brush.
That's what makes me laugh. You are raising your children in a "Christian" household. However, your Christianity is different from someone else's idea of Christianity. So what's the sense of following a religion when beliefs are all over the place?
totally ridiculous this a la carte approach to believing in some higher entity
But God knows who got it right and those people will be rewarded in heaven. Others will go to hell, or if there is no hell, will just lose consciousness and be dead forever like the atheists think will happen and like what most people think happens to all other non-human beings.
Some people, Christian or not, think that all "good" people will go to heaven, even atheists, but there's no way of knowing that. It's certainly not in the Bible,but that doesn't stop some Christians from believing it. It just seems so logical that good people shouldn't suffer eternally. But the focus of religion is not logic -- it's faith.
Anonymous
11/08/2015 13:09
Subject: Secular family values rock!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.
I'm a Christian and this is a silly rule for beginners/children. There's a tinge of selfishness to it, don't you think? Do something because it is right. Right and wrong. Right action. This also exists in many religions and philosophies. That being said, the teachings of Christ are a wonderful guide if you are trying to determine right from wrong. xo
Really? That's like saying christians do something right so you won't go to hell. If God wanted to create a system where people had no selfish motivation to be good or bad, he could send everyone to the same afterlife regardless.
You made such a great point but not for the reason you think.
According to Christian theology, and for the exact reason you mention, salvation is free. It does not depend on your behavior at all. The only thing to do is to acknowledge you don't deserve heaven because of how well you behave, and say that you need God's forgiveness (which is free). Good behavior after that is a fruit of this change (if change is real), but not necessary for getting to heaven.
In fact people get mad at the whole thing because they think it is unfair that 'bad people' can get in if they repent at the last minute.
I find it a neat trick and quite different from other systems of though- secular or religious. Generally they work under the premise of Santa will bring you present if you are a good boy. Christians say, Santa has brought you toys, and will forever howevet you act; aren't you grateful? Be a good boy.
Catholics don't believe that. Faith alone is not sufficient to get to heaven. James 2. Also Council of Trent.
If you dig deep enough it comes down to the same thing because in practice, the fruit will tell what the tree is. But I think that real non-performance based Gospel is a good antidote to smugness. If truly "all have fallen short", no one has anything to brag about as all 'good deeds' are not your own doing but rathet God doing them in you.
I think the article is right, religion breeds comptempt of others. However, the Gospel, propetly understood, should not. Humans unfortuantely have the tendency to slide into the 'good things to well-behaved people' (think about the concept of karma) and that means that it is all about how much better you are than others. That turns into jerky behavior teal quick.
Anonymous
11/08/2015 12:46
Subject: Secular family values rock!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:"I went in grieving deeply and came out wishing I could clear my head of the hateful rants of a very angry man. And so glad we're not raising our kids religiously."
You do realize most Christian churches do not operate this way?
I'm glad we are raising our kids with Christianity, certainly not this misrepresentation of it. Do what you want in your own home, but don't paint religion with such a broad brush.
That's what makes me laugh. You are raising your children in a "Christian" household. However, your Christianity is different from someone else's idea of Christianity. So what's the sense of following a religion when beliefs are all over the place?
totally ridiculous this a la carte approach to believing in some higher entity
She is raising her kids in a Christian household. And yes, Christian denominations differ in some ways but are mostly similar.
Anonymous
11/08/2015 12:19
Subject: Secular family values rock!
Anonymous wrote:"I went in grieving deeply and came out wishing I could clear my head of the hateful rants of a very angry man. And so glad we're not raising our kids religiously."
You do realize most Christian churches do not operate this way?
I'm glad we are raising our kids with Christianity, certainly not this misrepresentation of it. Do what you want in your own home, but don't paint religion with such a broad brush.
That's what makes me laugh. You are raising your children in a "Christian" household. However, your Christianity is different from someone else's idea of Christianity. So what's the sense of following a religion when beliefs are all over the place?
totally ridiculous this a la carte approach to believing in some higher entity
Anonymous
11/08/2015 12:08
Subject: Re:Secular family values rock!
Anonymous wrote:The secularists in his thread seem to be pushing an agenda awful hard. Seems almost desperate. Why is that?
because you're not used to secular people speaking up. It seems like "pushing an agenda" when it's more like expressing a point of view held by a minority that has historically been pretty quiet.
Anonymous
11/08/2015 12:06
Subject: Re:Secular family values rock!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The secularists in his thread seem to be pushing an agenda awful hard. Seems almost desperate. Why is that?
fundamentally sad people.
You can tell them on the street -- they are the ones moping around - especially on Sunday mornings at brunch or walking through the woods or sleeping in.
Anonymous
11/08/2015 11:09
Subject: Re:Secular family values rock!
Anonymous wrote:The secularists in his thread seem to be pushing an agenda awful hard. Seems almost desperate. Why is that?
fundamentally sad people.
Anonymous
11/08/2015 10:23
Subject: Re:Secular family values rock!
The secularists in his thread seem to be pushing an agenda awful hard. Seems almost desperate. Why is that?
Anonymous
11/08/2015 09:45
Subject: Secular family values rock!
What I resent is most are people like muslim fundamentalists and Christian conservatives alike, who wield their supposed faith as a club and shield to batter and beat anyone they don't like and to fend off any criticism with their false moral imperatives and phony righteousness.
Anonymous
11/08/2015 09:34
Subject: Secular family values rock!
Anonymous wrote:http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0115-zuckerman-secular-parenting-20150115-story.html
Come over to the dark side, folks--we have cookies.
And apparently we now also have values. Came as a total surprise to me.
I saw this and it didn't surprise me as a practicing Catholic as the vast majority of small children I know are "good people" regardless of their upbringing. It did make me especially perplexed though what happens to all these kids when they grow up. Religion is no guarantee of raising a moral child. I think it's a good tool to have in your parenting kit, though.
Anonymous
11/08/2015 09:28
Subject: Secular family values rock!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.
I'm a Christian and this is a silly rule for beginners/children. There's a tinge of selfishness to it, don't you think? Do something because it is right. Right and wrong. Right action. This also exists in many religions and philosophies. That being said, the teachings of Christ are a wonderful guide if you are trying to determine right from wrong. xo
Really? That's like saying christians do something right so you won't go to hell. If God wanted to create a system where people had no selfish motivation to be good or bad, he could send everyone to the same afterlife regardless.
You made such a great point but not for the reason you think.
According to Christian theology, and for the exact reason you mention, salvation is free. It does not depend on your behavior at all. The only thing to do is to acknowledge you don't deserve heaven because of how well you behave, and say that you need God's forgiveness (which is free). Good behavior after that is a fruit of this change (if change is real), but not necessary for getting to heaven.
In fact people get mad at the whole thing because they think it is unfair that 'bad people' can get in if they repent at the last minute.
I find it a neat trick and quite different from other systems of though- secular or religious. Generally they work under the premise of Santa will bring you present if you are a good boy. Christians say, Santa has brought you toys, and will forever howevet you act; aren't you grateful? Be a good boy.
Catholics don't believe that. Faith alone is not sufficient to get to heaven. James 2. Also Council of Trent.
Anonymous
11/08/2015 09:20
Subject: Secular family values rock!
PP, unfortunately they way we learn about christianity genereally is all wrong, and it often turns into the be good- santa will bring toy scenario. That's why I am also having a hard time deciding what to do with my kid.
Anonymous
11/08/2015 09:16
Subject: Secular family values rock!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.
I'm a Christian and this is a silly rule for beginners/children. There's a tinge of selfishness to it, don't you think? Do something because it is right. Right and wrong. Right action. This also exists in many religions and philosophies. That being said, the teachings of Christ are a wonderful guide if you are trying to determine right from wrong. xo
Really? That's like saying christians do something right so you won't go to hell. If God wanted to create a system where people had no selfish motivation to be good or bad, he could send everyone to the same afterlife regardless.
You made such a great point but not for the reason you think.
According to Christian theology, and for the exact reason you mention, salvation is free. It does not depend on your behavior at all. The only thing to do is to acknowledge you don't deserve heaven because of how well you behave, and say that you need God's forgiveness (which is free). Good behavior after that is a fruit of this change (if change is real), but not necessary for getting to heaven.
In fact people get mad at the whole thing because they think it is unfair that 'bad people' can get in if they repent at the last minute.
I find it a neat trick and quite different from other systems of though- secular or religious. Generally they work under the premise of Santa will bring you present if you are a good boy. Christians say, Santa has brought you toys, and will forever howevet you act; aren't you grateful? Be a good boy.
Anonymous
11/08/2015 08:51
Subject: Re:Secular family values rock!
Another highly counterintuitive finding from a research team at the University of Chicago based on a sample of over 1100 kids from several countries:
https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/religious-kids-arent-as-good-at-sharing-study-221423445.html
“Our findings contradict the common sense and popular assumption that children from religious households are more altruistic and kind toward others,” the lead author of the study — Jean Decety, the Irving B. Harris distinguished service professor in psychology and psychiatry and director of the Child NeuroSuite at the University of Chicago — said in the release. “In our study, kids from atheist and nonreligious families were, in fact, more generous.”
Decety added: “Together, these results reveal the similarity across countries in how religion negatively influences children’s altruism. They challenge the view that religiosity facilitates pro-social behavior, and call into question whether religion is vital for moral development — suggesting the secularization of moral discourse does not reduce human kindness. In fact, it does just the opposite.”
https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/religious-kids-arent-as-good-at-sharing-study-221423445.html
“Our findings contradict the common sense and popular assumption that children from religious households are more altruistic and kind toward others,” the lead author of the study — Jean Decety, the Irving B. Harris distinguished service professor in psychology and psychiatry and director of the Child NeuroSuite at the University of Chicago — said in the release. “In our study, kids from atheist and nonreligious families were, in fact, more generous.”
Decety added: “Together, these results reveal the similarity across countries in how religion negatively influences children’s altruism. They challenge the view that religiosity facilitates pro-social behavior, and call into question whether religion is vital for moral development — suggesting the secularization of moral discourse does not reduce human kindness. In fact, it does just the opposite.”
Anonymous
01/20/2015 07:48
Subject: Secular family values rock!
Anonymous wrote:http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0115-zuckerman-secular-parenting-20150115-story.html
Come over to the dark side, folks--we have cookies.
And apparently we now also have values. Came as a total surprise to me.
Let's hang out, OP.