Anonymous wrote:So why should their political grievances affect us here or those anywhere else who don't believe? You make no sense.

You can't think critically, so I will let you live in your ignorance. Maybe one day, you will find out ~

So why should their political grievances affect us here or those anywhere else who don't believe? You make no sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:With freedom comes responsibility, as the saying goes. People focus on their rights, maybe once in a while, we should focus on our duties to mankind. Hate begets Hate. I have never understood the principle of "right to offend". Why would you like to offend someone? What's the usefulness of this right? What was the value added to the world of the distasteful cartoons? They didn't make the world a better place, they contributed to the marginalization and mockery of minorities and contributed to adding more hate to a broken world. Just because you have a right to say something, doesn't mean you should!

With that said, shouldn't the person who the hatred is directed at just ignore the ignorance of the name caller? Of course just because they can be offensive, does not mean that they should be. Unfortunately, it always has been and most likely always will be. When I was younger I was picked on and made fun of. I was offended and it hurt terribly. However, there came a point where I realized that they are making fun of me because of some issue that they have going on in their life. It has nothing to do with me. They have a right to their opinion and to voice it. I have the option of not letting it affect me. More than likely, they are the ones that are miserable and I decided not to let them drag me down with them. Hate does not always beget hate. Unfortunately it does when people are uneducated and are easy pray for those who do hate...no matter what their background is.

Well the majority ignores them, one in a while you have a.lunatic who goes bersek, and the Paris attacks were not just about the cartoons. There are underlying issues that brought us to where we are today and this can not be analyzed in a vacuum, outside of the context and surrounding climate

So, are you saying that what happened in Paris is justified? I am not trying to be an ass, I just want to make sure I understand before posting a comment.

It is not justified, but it can be explained~

So all people who practice the radical form of Islam are lunatics, is this what you are saying?

No. Most of them have political grievances. They are using the wrong tools to solve legitimate issues and problems that exist in their societies

So you think these are stable, intelligent, individuals who just happen to have political grievances? Out of curiosity, what are these political grievances you say they have? What in the world can make it okay to kill people because they don't agree with the same God that you do?

I have already discussed this many times in many posts that are easily searchable. (And your narrative is false, they don't just kill people because they worship a different God, this is a bit simplistic!) Here's one:


-In the Muslim community, we have uneducated, self-taught followers who believe they are qualified to give religious verdicts and that they can make someone else's life permissible, without ever actually having studied with a single scholar. Googling fatwas and quoting random incidents from the Seerah is enough these days to become a faqih.

-The terms jihad (struggle) and Shaheed ( martyr) have been hijacked by extremist movements who might be motivated by legitimate concerns, but express that motivation in un-Islamic manners, and cause destruction & bloodshed in the name of religion whilst overlooking their own responsibilities towards their communities.

-Young overzealous youth, angered by the transgressions of Western powers, are often swayed by fancy rhetoric and enticing slogans into entering a military conflict that eventually ends up harming the very people they claim to protect

-The Muslim world lacks strong leaders and strong institutions. They are mostly led by dictators who oppress their own people and are in bed with the western world.

- You have a country like Saudi Arabia that is exporting more extremism than oil. Political identity around grievances are then used and exploited in regions with huge crisis of identity problems.

- Lots of extremists that inspire people through the web, we need to counter that narrative

- Attacks like the ones in Paris will provoke the rise of nationalist policies and parties in the West, and this is what extremists want, so they can draw a further wedge and recruit more people. Their main goal is to divide communities so they can polarize and radicalize.

For anyone interested, I highly recommend this talk by Dr.Yasir Qadhi about the causes and roots of Muslim Fundamentalism .In this interview, he gets into the mindset of radical "Islamic" movements and unveils the psychological framework that leads to terrorism. He academically analyses the three primary combinations that must exist before radicalism is resorted to

Anonymous wrote:

So you think these are stable, intelligent, individuals who just happen to have political grievances? Out of curiosity, what are these political grievances you say they have? What in the world can make it okay to kill people because they don't agree with the same God that you do?

Isn't Allah the same as the Christian God?

- another Ranting Atheist asking a question

Perhaps I should have said "don't agree with the same ideology as you". It's supposably the same God from what I understand.

So you think these are stable, intelligent, individuals who just happen to have political grievances? Out of curiosity, what are these political grievances you say they have? What in the world can make it okay to kill people because they don't agree with the same God that you do?

Isn't Allah the same as the Christian God?

- another Ranting Atheist asking a question

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:With freedom comes responsibility, as the saying goes. People focus on their rights, maybe once in a while, we should focus on our duties to mankind. Hate begets Hate. I have never understood the principle of "right to offend". Why would you like to offend someone? What's the usefulness of this right? What was the value added to the world of the distasteful cartoons? They didn't make the world a better place, they contributed to the marginalization and mockery of minorities and contributed to adding more hate to a broken world. Just because you have a right to say something, doesn't mean you should!

With that said, shouldn't the person who the hatred is directed at just ignore the ignorance of the name caller? Of course just because they can be offensive, does not mean that they should be. Unfortunately, it always has been and most likely always will be. When I was younger I was picked on and made fun of. I was offended and it hurt terribly. However, there came a point where I realized that they are making fun of me because of some issue that they have going on in their life. It has nothing to do with me. They have a right to their opinion and to voice it. I have the option of not letting it affect me. More than likely, they are the ones that are miserable and I decided not to let them drag me down with them. Hate does not always beget hate. Unfortunately it does when people are uneducated and are easy pray for those who do hate...no matter what their background is.

Well the majority ignores them, one in a while you have a.lunatic who goes bersek, and the Paris attacks were not just about the cartoons. There are underlying issues that brought us to where we are today and this can not be analyzed in a vacuum, outside of the context and surrounding climate

So, are you saying that what happened in Paris is justified? I am not trying to be an ass, I just want to make sure I understand before posting a comment.

It is not justified, but it can be explained~

So all people who practice the radical form of Islam are lunatics, is this what you are saying?

No. Most of them have political grievances. They are using the wrong tools to solve legitimate issues and problems that exist in their societies

So you think these are stable, intelligent, individuals who just happen to have political grievances? Out of curiosity, what are these political grievances you say they have? What in the world can make it okay to kill people because they don't agree with the same God that you do?

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:With freedom comes responsibility, as the saying goes. People focus on their rights, maybe once in a while, we should focus on our duties to mankind. Hate begets Hate. I have never understood the principle of "right to offend". Why would you like to offend someone? What's the usefulness of this right? What was the value added to the world of the distasteful cartoons? They didn't make the world a better place, they contributed to the marginalization and mockery of minorities and contributed to adding more hate to a broken world. Just because you have a right to say something, doesn't mean you should!

With that said, shouldn't the person who the hatred is directed at just ignore the ignorance of the name caller? Of course just because they can be offensive, does not mean that they should be. Unfortunately, it always has been and most likely always will be. When I was younger I was picked on and made fun of. I was offended and it hurt terribly. However, there came a point where I realized that they are making fun of me because of some issue that they have going on in their life. It has nothing to do with me. They have a right to their opinion and to voice it. I have the option of not letting it affect me. More than likely, they are the ones that are miserable and I decided not to let them drag me down with them. Hate does not always beget hate. Unfortunately it does when people are uneducated and are easy pray for those who do hate...no matter what their background is.

Well the majority ignores them, one in a while you have a.lunatic who goes bersek, and the Paris attacks were not just about the cartoons. There are underlying issues that brought us to where we are today and this can not be analyzed in a vacuum, outside of the context and surrounding climate

So, are you saying that what happened in Paris is justified? I am not trying to be an ass, I just want to make sure I understand before posting a comment.

It is not justified, but it can be explained~

So all people who practice the radical form of Islam are lunatics, is this what you are saying?

No. Most of them have political grievances. They are using the wrong tools to solve legitimate issues and problems that exist in their societies

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:With freedom comes responsibility, as the saying goes. People focus on their rights, maybe once in a while, we should focus on our duties to mankind. Hate begets Hate. I have never understood the principle of "right to offend". Why would you like to offend someone? What's the usefulness of this right? What was the value added to the world of the distasteful cartoons? They didn't make the world a better place, they contributed to the marginalization and mockery of minorities and contributed to adding more hate to a broken world. Just because you have a right to say something, doesn't mean you should!

With that said, shouldn't the person who the hatred is directed at just ignore the ignorance of the name caller? Of course just because they can be offensive, does not mean that they should be. Unfortunately, it always has been and most likely always will be. When I was younger I was picked on and made fun of. I was offended and it hurt terribly. However, there came a point where I realized that they are making fun of me because of some issue that they have going on in their life. It has nothing to do with me. They have a right to their opinion and to voice it. I have the option of not letting it affect me. More than likely, they are the ones that are miserable and I decided not to let them drag me down with them. Hate does not always beget hate. Unfortunately it does when people are uneducated and are easy pray for those who do hate...no matter what their background is.

Well the majority ignores them, one in a while you have a.lunatic who goes bersek, and the Paris attacks were not just about the cartoons. There are underlying issues that brought us to where we are today and this can not be analyzed in a vacuum, outside of the context and surrounding climate

So, are you saying that what happened in Paris is justified? I am not trying to be an ass, I just want to make sure I understand before posting a comment.

It is not justified, but it can be explained~

So all people who practice the radical form of Islam are lunatics, is this what you are saying?

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:With freedom comes responsibility, as the saying goes. People focus on their rights, maybe once in a while, we should focus on our duties to mankind. Hate begets Hate. I have never understood the principle of "right to offend". Why would you like to offend someone? What's the usefulness of this right? What was the value added to the world of the distasteful cartoons? They didn't make the world a better place, they contributed to the marginalization and mockery of minorities and contributed to adding more hate to a broken world. Just because you have a right to say something, doesn't mean you should!

With that said, shouldn't the person who the hatred is directed at just ignore the ignorance of the name caller? Of course just because they can be offensive, does not mean that they should be. Unfortunately, it always has been and most likely always will be. When I was younger I was picked on and made fun of. I was offended and it hurt terribly. However, there came a point where I realized that they are making fun of me because of some issue that they have going on in their life. It has nothing to do with me. They have a right to their opinion and to voice it. I have the option of not letting it affect me. More than likely, they are the ones that are miserable and I decided not to let them drag me down with them. Hate does not always beget hate. Unfortunately it does when people are uneducated and are easy pray for those who do hate...no matter what their background is.

Well the majority ignores them, one in a while you have a.lunatic who goes bersek, and the Paris attacks were not just about the cartoons. There are underlying issues that brought us to where we are today and this can not be analyzed in a vacuum, outside of the context and surrounding climate

So, are you saying that what happened in Paris is justified? I am not trying to be an ass, I just want to make sure I understand before posting a comment.

It is not justified, but it can be explained~

Anonymous wrote:
Is this forum YOUR hill to die on? to forever banish people who disagree with you? (There are several atheist posters) A lot of people are not very provoked by posts from people with different points of view. Some people probably even come here interested to see how other people think. If you don't like being provoked, this forum is obviously not the place to hang out. If you drive off one pesky atheist, a little later another completely different one might show up. But, hey - this is the internet, there are many other places you can go that delete posts they don't like.

Forever banish? No. Trying to piece together motivation. Very simple.

You are correct, this is an open forum so every time a poster makes an inflammatory comment I am free to ask WHY.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why not -- is religion some kind of a "no Fly zone" that can't be criticized? Should christians refrain from quoting bible verses when atheists post? it's bothersome, yes, but should it be banned? should they stop reminding atheists of the eternity in hell that awaits them?

This is just what I said would happen. The false argument that atheists are being banned from posting. No. But tell me the motivation for commenting about fairy tales and anti-religious rhetoric when believers are just having a dialogue about something they share in common. What makes you think, "Oh, I have to get in on this ..."?

Again I ask, why post? Not, should you be allowed, but why post in those instances?

no one says that atheists are being banned from posting but you, above. The issue is why should anyone with any religious or irreligious opinion not be free to criticize. The motivation, on all sides, is the free expression of opinion. It can be unpleasant to face criticism of one's beliefs - those are the breaks. To avoid intrusion, maybe you can set up a private message board somewhere, get testimonies of proper belief and charge admission.

I'm saying there is no need to criticize in every faith-based thread and yet there seems to be a lot of it. The criticism is not organic at all - it just pops up with talk of "fables" and "delusions". Why post criticism when there is no debate at all? Two people are discussing something common to them (no argument in sight) and a third or forth party comes in with criticism. Tell me how that makes sense.

You're criticizing people who criticize. There is "no need" for that either, but it seems OK to you. people reading here can ignore it or not. Perhaps that's a good path to take when people whose views you don't appreciate seem to butt in to a conversation.

Well sure we all can ignore, but I'm asking YOU why you "butt in" with posts meant to provoke.

Why? Compulsion? This forum is your hill to die on? Why?

Is this forum YOUR hill to die on? to forever banish people who disagree with you? (There are several atheist posters) A lot of people are not very provoked by posts from people with different points of view. Some people probably even come here interested to see how other people think. If you don't like being provoked, this forum is obviously not the place to hang out. If you drive off one pesky atheist, a little later another completely different one might show up. But, hey - this is the internet, there are many other places you can go that delete posts they don't like.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:With freedom comes responsibility, as the saying goes. People focus on their rights, maybe once in a while, we should focus on our duties to mankind. Hate begets Hate. I have never understood the principle of "right to offend". Why would you like to offend someone? What's the usefulness of this right? What was the value added to the world of the distasteful cartoons? They didn't make the world a better place, they contributed to the marginalization and mockery of minorities and contributed to adding more hate to a broken world. Just because you have a right to say something, doesn't mean you should!

With that said, shouldn't the person who the hatred is directed at just ignore the ignorance of the name caller? Of course just because they can be offensive, does not mean that they should be. Unfortunately, it always has been and most likely always will be. When I was younger I was picked on and made fun of. I was offended and it hurt terribly. However, there came a point where I realized that they are making fun of me because of some issue that they have going on in their life. It has nothing to do with me. They have a right to their opinion and to voice it. I have the option of not letting it affect me. More than likely, they are the ones that are miserable and I decided not to let them drag me down with them. Hate does not always beget hate. Unfortunately it does when people are uneducated and are easy pray for those who do hate...no matter what their background is.

Well the majority ignores them, one in a while you have a.lunatic who goes bersek, and the Paris attacks were not just about the cartoons. There are underlying issues that brought us to where we are today and this can not be analyzed in a vacuum, outside of the context and surrounding climate

So, are you saying that what happened in Paris is justified? I am not trying to be an ass, I just want to make sure I understand before posting a comment.

IMO the problem is that you can't have a serious conversation about a serious subject without Ranting Atheist coming on to say "Flying Spaghetti Monster! Horus and the golden penis! Nyah Nyah!!!" Except for "where's a church or synagogue that meets me needs?" threads, every.single.thread gets derailed by identical idiocy.

Does Ranting Atheist really think it's necessary to derail every.single.thread on religion, even the ones that start out thoughtfully, with "your God doesn't exist, you idiot?" Maybe DCUM isn't the place for deep discussions about faith, but it would be nice to have a simple discussion without being torpedoed by this clown.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why not -- is religion some kind of a "no Fly zone" that can't be criticized? Should christians refrain from quoting bible verses when atheists post? it's bothersome, yes, but should it be banned? should they stop reminding atheists of the eternity in hell that awaits them?

This is just what I said would happen. The false argument that atheists are being banned from posting. No. But tell me the motivation for commenting about fairy tales and anti-religious rhetoric when believers are just having a dialogue about something they share in common. What makes you think, "Oh, I have to get in on this ..."?

Again I ask, why post? Not, should you be allowed, but why post in those instances?

no one says that atheists are being banned from posting but you, above. The issue is why should anyone with any religious or irreligious opinion not be free to criticize. The motivation, on all sides, is the free expression of opinion. It can be unpleasant to face criticism of one's beliefs - those are the breaks. To avoid intrusion, maybe you can set up a private message board somewhere, get testimonies of proper belief and charge admission.

I'm saying there is no need to criticize in every faith-based thread and yet there seems to be a lot of it. The criticism is not organic at all - it just pops up with talk of "fables" and "delusions". Why post criticism when there is no debate at all? Two people are discussing something common to them (no argument in sight) and a third or forth party comes in with criticism. Tell me how that makes sense.

You're criticizing people who criticize. There is "no need" for that either, but it seems OK to you. people reading here can ignore it or not. Perhaps that's a good path to take when people whose views you don't appreciate seem to butt in to a conversation.

Well sure we all can ignore, but I'm asking YOU why you "butt in" with posts meant to provoke.

Why? Compulsion? This forum is your hill to die on? Why?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why not -- is religion some kind of a "no Fly zone" that can't be criticized? Should christians refrain from quoting bible verses when atheists post? it's bothersome, yes, but should it be banned? should they stop reminding atheists of the eternity in hell that awaits them?

This is just what I said would happen. The false argument that atheists are being banned from posting. No. But tell me the motivation for commenting about fairy tales and anti-religious rhetoric when believers are just having a dialogue about something they share in common. What makes you think, "Oh, I have to get in on this ..."?

Again I ask, why post? Not, should you be allowed, but why post in those instances?

no one says that atheists are being banned from posting but you, above. The issue is why should anyone with any religious or irreligious opinion not be free to criticize. The motivation, on all sides, is the free expression of opinion. It can be unpleasant to face criticism of one's beliefs - those are the breaks. To avoid intrusion, maybe you can set up a private message board somewhere, get testimonies of proper belief and charge admission.

I'm saying there is no need to criticize in every faith-based thread and yet there seems to be a lot of it. The criticism is not organic at all - it just pops up with talk of "fables" and "delusions". Why post criticism when there is no debate at all? Two people are discussing something common to them (no argument in sight) and a third or forth party comes in with criticism. Tell me how that makes sense.

You're criticizing people who criticize. There is "no need" for that either, but it seems OK to you. people reading here can ignore it or not. Perhaps that's a good path to take when people whose views you don't appreciate seem to butt in to a conversation.