My best friend and his wife recently separated (with the intent to divorce) and I was very much against it in the beginning. They have two daughters (9 and 4) and I was very worried about how it would affect the children. I figured the 9 yo would be absolutely destroyed and talked to him a lot about ways they could work it out for kids. In their case, they had been in therapy for years, even before the second child was born, so they really did try for years to make it work.

Fast forward a few months and everyone is doing well. The girls seem happy and adjusted to their new normal and the parents get along well with no fighting. My friend has also become a MUCH better father as a result of the divorce. He was incedibly unhappy in his marriage and would avoid being around his wife as much as possible, which meant they never did anything as a family for fun. Now that he is with his kids on his own 50% of the week, he's very attentive and they have a much better relationship with him because he is a happier person. It really shows--his depression over his marriage had slowly turned him into a person who I didn't even recognize anymore. Now, I can finally see the "old" him again--the guy who I became instant friends with 20 years ago.

I'm not saying that this is the norm or that you should walk away OP but just giving you an example of a situation where divorce (at least for right now), seems to have been the right move. I just hope this lasts for the long haul.

Anonymous wrote:

So these are divorces that occurred in the 1970s... When typically one person (usually mom) got custody and the other was maybe relegated to weekends if anything, women had fewer job opportunities, society took a very suspicious view of anything outside the nuclear model, and before it was common for people to successfully co-parent once they were no longer married...

Much of what you said is still very true today. Look, if you have data that you feel is more relevant, by all means post it. But whether discussing global warming, formula feeding, or any other topic, ANECDOTAL DATA IS NOT DATA.

Well, I don't have any data. But I hope there is some out there being collected, because this isn't what it looks like anymore among my circle of divorced people raising kids. My anecdotal sample of one indicates my kid is doing pretty great, and so are his friends.

If it is too far gone to fix, then divorce.

Kids have been raised in split households for a long time. It isn't that big of a deal.

Anonymous wrote:

If your parents are just roommates and co parents with no affection and no sex in their marriage.. But do not fight.... Is that want you think is better?

Yup. I think marriage means something-- you don't just bail as soon as things get difficult. And a lot of marriages with children come back from times like this. So if kids are still at home, I think it's better for the children and possibly better for the adults to ride it out. You can still get divorced later.

But really, the best thing is to control yourself and not fight in front of the kids. What a crazy idea, huh?

If your parents are just roommates and co parents with no affection and no sex in their marriage.. But do not fight.... Is that want you think is better?

I don't think any child spends a lot of time concerned about their parents' sex lives. The negative impact of divorce on children is so grave that this situation is less than optimal but not worse than divorce. Lack of romance in a marriage is a fixable problem. Undoing the trauma of divorce is not easily fixable if it can ever be resolved.

Anonymous wrote:My parents were unhappily married, with a ton of yelling and my mom carrying on an affair for several years, that my dad knew about. I still wish they could have reconciled.

Sure, it was a relief when they divorced. But the price we all paid for that relief was pretty steep. I hated the schlepping back and forth-- still hate it when I have to do it on the holidays. Hated the step-parents too. Financially it was tough, and that means they aren't able to retire at the normal time. They each get half as much time with their grandchild, and that's really sad for my daughters. It's going to be really hard on me and my siblings trying to care for them as they age in two different locations. Sure, my life isn't totally wrecked, I'm "resilient" (I hate that saying), but it sure is a pain in the ass. They the parents, us kids, and our own spouses and children, are all still paying the price for their divorce.

Here's an alternative to divorce that is much easier for everyone: STOP FIGHTING. You are an adult and can control what comes out of your mouth. So find a way to stop fighting. Get counseling, work out your differences, and don't kid yourself that divorce is a good solution. It may be better than your crappy marriage, but it still really sucks. So try to do better.

i

If your parents are just roommates and co parents with no affection and no sex in their marriage.. But do not fight.... Is that want you think is better?

Anonymous wrote:Is there a consensus on this? I am starting to despair of things getting much better with DH despite counseling. We have two DD under 3. Every day I vow not to subject them to our fighting and tension but often break this vow.
At best things between us are decent, never really good any more.

Think about this - you will only parent your DDs 50% of the time.

You will miss out on lots of things when it is not your day, week, or weekend.

You will spend half of all holidays without them and them without you.

That alone makes me despair much more than a less than ideal marriage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with previous posters. Read Unexpected Legacy of Divorce - it is eye-opening and concludes that children that grow up in unhappy marriages are better off in the long-run than this whose parents divorced. I come from divorce and work in early childhood and divorces are ENORMOUSLY damaging to children. IMHO divorce is far more damaging than a bad marriage, although a bad marriage is no picnic for kids either. Best advice is to try harder - and surrender some key ground to your s/o in order to show him the way to surrendering ground. You re not losing - just paving the way and setting a good example of what kind of relationship you want to have with him. He is human and doing the best he can - and frankly - you may be wrong about some things you are fighting about. Let it go - love him - talk to him - and compromise. Your children will be MUCH MUCH better for it.

Wow. Could not disagree more. I remember being 14 and so SO miserable over the atmosphere of our home which was "ok" two days a week and hell for five. Always fighting. You never knew what would set them off. So many dinners, family trips, vacations, ruined. I still get anxious at the sound of the garage door opening because growing up it was portentous. It could mean the peacefulness was about to be broken because someone was home and they were going to argue. And this is your run of he mill shitty marriage- no physical abuse, no drugs. Just two pissed off people who enjoyed hurting one another. I would look at baby pictures and wish I was a baby again do I wouldnt have to deal with any of it.
It was a FUCKING RELIEF when they divorced and home could be a normal environment.

ME TOO. And this experience informed my decision to divorce when my child was a toddler.

x3. Everything PP said, I can relate to. Thats why I will never tolerate that for my child. My goal is to either meet the right person, or become a single mom. Either way, I KNOW it is healthier for a child to grow up in a happy household than one where people are arguing and hating each other.

My parents were unhappily married, with a ton of yelling and my mom carrying on an affair for several years, that my dad knew about. I still wish they could have reconciled.

Sure, it was a relief when they divorced. But the price we all paid for that relief was pretty steep. I hated the schlepping back and forth-- still hate it when I have to do it on the holidays. Hated the step-parents too. Financially it was tough, and that means they aren't able to retire at the normal time. They each get half as much time with their grandchild, and that's really sad for my daughters. It's going to be really hard on me and my siblings trying to care for them as they age in two different locations. Sure, my life isn't totally wrecked, I'm "resilient" (I hate that saying), but it sure is a pain in the ass. They the parents, us kids, and our own spouses and children, are all still paying the price for their divorce.

Here's an alternative to divorce that is much easier for everyone: STOP FIGHTING. You are an adult and can control what comes out of your mouth. So find a way to stop fighting. Get counseling, work out your differences, and don't kid yourself that divorce is a good solution. It may be better than your crappy marriage, but it still really sucks. So try to do better.

Anonymous wrote:Another thing to remember is that getting a divorce feels like it will solve so many problems when a couple is in the thick of conflict, but studies show that people do not bounce back from divorce very well, especially women, but men also. So if the children are worse off, and there's a better than even chance that you and your spouse will be worse off, what is the point?

Or as Nora Ephron put it, marriages end but divorce is forever.

So these are divorces that occurred in the 1970s... When typically one person (usually mom) got custody and the other was maybe relegated to weekends if anything, women had fewer job opportunities, society took a very suspicious view of anything outside the nuclear model, and before it was common for people to successfully co-parent once they were no longer married...

Much of what you said is still very true today. Look, if you have data that you feel is more relevant, by all means post it. But whether discussing global warming, formula feeding, or any other topic, ANECDOTAL DATA IS NOT DATA.

Egm80 wrote:

Egm80 wrote:If you are interested in data and not just anecdotes, there is a book on this called "The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce" that followed children of divorce (and the divorcees) after 25 years. It is worth a read.



What does it say

Here is the abstract from a psychology website:
Abstract
This follow-up study of 131 children, who were 3-18 years old when their parents divorced in the early 1970s, marks the culmination of 25 years of research. The use of extensive clinical interviews allowed for exploration in great depth of their thoughts, feelings, and behaviors as they negotiated childhood, adolescence, young adulthood, and adulthood. At the 25-year follow-up, a comparison group of their peers from the same community was added. Described in rich clinical detail, the findings highlight the unexpected gulf between growing up in intact versus divorced families, and the difficulties children of divorce encounter in achieving love, sexual intimacy, and commitment to marriage and parenthood. These findings have significant implications for new clinical and educational interventions. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved)

So these are divorces that occurred in the 1970s... When typically one person (usually mom) got custody and the other was maybe relegated to weekends if anything, women had fewer job opportunities, society took a very suspicious view of anything outside the nuclear model, and before it was common for people to successfully co-parent once they were no longer married...

Yeah, I'm a little dubious.

Anonymous wrote:Another thing to remember is that getting a divorce feels like it will solve so many problems when a couple is in the thick of conflict, but studies show that people do not bounce back from divorce very well, especially women, but men also. So if the children are worse off, and there's a better than even chance that you and your spouse will be worse off, what is the point?

.... when in truth, it is creating problems that you cannot yet begin to fathom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with previous posters. Read Unexpected Legacy of Divorce - it is eye-opening and concludes that children that grow up in unhappy marriages are better off in the long-run than this whose parents divorced. I come from divorce and work in early childhood and divorces are ENORMOUSLY damaging to children. IMHO divorce is far more damaging than a bad marriage, although a bad marriage is no picnic for kids either. Best advice is to try harder - and surrender some key ground to your s/o in order to show him the way to surrendering ground. You re not losing - just paving the way and setting a good example of what kind of relationship you want to have with him. He is human and doing the best he can - and frankly - you may be wrong about some things you are fighting about. Let it go - love him - talk to him - and compromise. Your children will be MUCH MUCH better for it.

Wow. Could not disagree more. I remember being 14 and so SO miserable over the atmosphere of our home which was "ok" two days a week and hell for five. Always fighting. You never knew what would set them off. So many dinners, family trips, vacations, ruined. I still get anxious at the sound of the garage door opening because growing up it was portentous. It could mean the peacefulness was about to be broken because someone was home and they were going to argue. And this is your run of he mill shitty marriage- no physical abuse, no drugs. Just two pissed off people who enjoyed hurting one another. I would look at baby pictures and wish I was a baby again do I wouldnt have to deal with any of it.
It was a FUCKING RELIEF when they divorced and home could be a normal environment.

ME TOO. And this experience informed my decision to divorce when my child was a toddler.

Anonymous wrote:I agree with previous posters. Read Unexpected Legacy of Divorce - it is eye-opening and concludes that children that grow up in unhappy marriages are better off in the long-run than this whose parents divorced. I come from divorce and work in early childhood and divorces are ENORMOUSLY damaging to children. IMHO divorce is far more damaging than a bad marriage, although a bad marriage is no picnic for kids either. Best advice is to try harder - and surrender some key ground to your s/o in order to show him the way to surrendering ground. You re not losing - just paving the way and setting a good example of what kind of relationship you want to have with him. He is human and doing the best he can - and frankly - you may be wrong about some things you are fighting about. Let it go - love him - talk to him - and compromise. Your children will be MUCH MUCH better for it.

Wow. Could not disagree more. I remember being 14 and so SO miserable over the atmosphere of our home which was "ok" two days a week and hell for five. Always fighting. You never knew what would set them off. So many dinners, family trips, vacations, ruined. I still get anxious at the sound of the garage door opening because growing up it was portentous. It could mean the peacefulness was about to be broken because someone was home and they were going to argue. And this is your run of he mill shitty marriage- no physical abuse, no drugs. Just two pissed off people who enjoyed hurting one another. I would look at baby pictures and wish I was a baby again do I wouldnt have to deal with any of it.
It was a FUCKING RELIEF when they divorced and home could be a normal environment.