Anonymous
11/18/2014 09:26
Subject: Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
It's not just Jews who were discriminated against, and it wasn't relegated solely to Harvard.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster. Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.
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WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.
However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?
If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.
But that is also because upper management in Corporate America is still largely white/male and continue to discriminate. This is an issue for white women is as well. Unfortunately, we are not a color blind society, not sure we will ever be. But one would like to think that a vaunted univ. like Harvard would be able to rise above racism. However, given its history regarding discrimination of Jews, I guess that's too much to ask for.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 09:25
Subject: Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster. Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.
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WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.
However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?
If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.
But that is also because upper management in Corporate America is still largely white/male and continue to discriminate. This is an issue for white women is as well. Unfortunately, we are not a color blind society, not sure we will ever be. But one would like to think that a vaunted univ. like Harvard would be able to rise above racism. However, given its history regarding discrimination of Jews, I guess that's too much to ask for.
Interesting you only consider "upper management" as a measure of success.. how about being an Olympian, or curing cancer, or started a new company, or winning a Pulitzer, or winning the Nobel Peace Prize.
If J.K. Rowling were Asian they would not have published her books?
The problem is the law of diminishing return with respect to IQ.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 09:21
Subject: Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
Anonymous wrote:I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster. Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.
• Reply•Share ›
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WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.
However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?
If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.
But that is also because upper management in Corporate America is still largely white/male and continue to discriminate. This is an issue for white women is as well. Unfortunately, we are not a color blind society, not sure we will ever be. But one would like to think that a vaunted univ. like Harvard would be able to rise above racism. However, given its history regarding discrimination of Jews, I guess that's too much to ask for.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 09:19
Subject: Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster. Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.
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WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.
However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?
If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.
One could argue that their lack of success despite demonstrated intellectual ability points to institutionalized discrimination in politics, business, etc (which I strongly believe is the case).
Heck, ask a white woman in STEM if it's harder for her to succeed than a man and she will say yes, EVEN IF she is equally or more talented. There are lots of old white guys in positions of power that can keep women and minorities away from the success they deserve.
I say this as a white woman, BTW.
or it could be argued that they are taught rote memorization is the key to success and that failure is not an option, when they fail they give up and take a path that ensures success, like being an employee, a great one... that they don't take risks and rarely reach their full potential.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 09:18
Subject: Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
I don't know that post college success is any kind of measure but grades and scores certainly aren't. Without something more -- a hook, stellar grades and scores don't get you into Harvard, no matter who you are. So if you are going to assess discrimination, you need to find a way to assess that something more. I don't know how you do that.
I also wonder how foreign students play into this. All of these schools are accepting far more foreign students and China is the largest country sending students to the US. Colleges love these students because they pay full freight. Do these students "count"? I don't know how to answer that question.
I don't know if its been pointed out in this long thread but the UNC case is different. Its been brought by a white student and UNC is a public university.
I also wonder how foreign students play into this. All of these schools are accepting far more foreign students and China is the largest country sending students to the US. Colleges love these students because they pay full freight. Do these students "count"? I don't know how to answer that question.
I don't know if its been pointed out in this long thread but the UNC case is different. Its been brought by a white student and UNC is a public university.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 09:17
Subject: Re:Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
It's cool. I'll just tell my half Asian kids to claim they are hispanic on their applications. Since it's a bogus ethnicity (not tied to anything and anyone can claim it) that gets all kind of affirmative action, I'm sure they can get in and get scholarships.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 09:15
Subject: Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
Anonymous wrote:I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster. Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.
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WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.
However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?
If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.
One could argue that their lack of success despite demonstrated intellectual ability points to institutionalized discrimination in politics, business, etc (which I strongly believe is the case).
Heck, ask a white woman in STEM if it's harder for her to succeed than a man and she will say yes, EVEN IF she is equally or more talented. There are lots of old white guys in positions of power that can keep women and minorities away from the success they deserve.
I say this as a white woman, BTW.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 09:07
Subject: Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
I thought below was an interesting perspective from a Yahoo poster. Usually Yahoo comments are despicably racist but I thought this comment was interesting even though I disagree on one of his opinions.
• Reply•Share ›
Avatar
WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.
However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?
If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.
• Reply•Share ›
Avatar
WJ Alden • 17 hours ago
As a private university, Harvard should have the right o admit whomever it wants. Of course most people at Harvard don't think businesses should have the right to hire whomever they want, so I guess they can't use that argument.
However, while Asians in the US may do better, on average, than non-Asians, they do not outperform the rest of us to a degree that suggests they should be >20% of Ivy League student bodies. Whether in politics, business, or culture, the evidence just isn't there. Are universities supposed to stick purely to grades and test scores - on which Asians do really, really well - to decide whom to admit, or can they look at post-college performance to understand that those aren't great predictors of our future elite?
If you look at just grades and test scores you could probably make a strong case that elite universities are discriminating against Asians. A look at post-college success, though, greatly weakens the case.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 08:57
Subject: Re:Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
You do know that affirmative action is not restricted just to ethnicity?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:admissions committees will say they use a 'holistic" approach; like X played they bagpipes and we don't have a bagpipe player so she got the nod over Y who had slightly higher grades and SATs but only played the violin, and we have tons of those. The courts will not tell Harvard what criteria it must use in shaping its classes.
Kinda sounds like using "fit" in hiring decisions. Excellent way to continue discrimination.
Not really. That's what the current law is. The Supreme Court will never ban affirmative action,
Anonymous
11/18/2014 07:00
Subject: Re:Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:admissions committees will say they use a 'holistic" approach; like X played they bagpipes and we don't have a bagpipe player so she got the nod over Y who had slightly higher grades and SATs but only played the violin, and we have tons of those. The courts will not tell Harvard what criteria it must use in shaping its classes.
Kinda sounds like using "fit" in hiring decisions. Excellent way to continue discrimination.
Not really. That's what the current law is. The Supreme Court will never ban affirmative action,
Anonymous
11/18/2014 06:57
Subject: Re:Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
Does NC offer a ballot initiative process? That worked in CA and MI, much to the chagrin of white elitists. Lawsuits will go nowhere.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 06:55
Subject: Re:Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
Anonymous wrote:admissions committees will say they use a 'holistic" approach; like X played they bagpipes and we don't have a bagpipe player so she got the nod over Y who had slightly higher grades and SATs but only played the violin, and we have tons of those. The courts will not tell Harvard what criteria it must use in shaping its classes.
Kinda sounds like using "fit" in hiring decisions. Excellent way to continue discrimination.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 06:46
Subject: Re:Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
admissions committees will say they use a 'holistic" approach; like X played they bagpipes and we don't have a bagpipe player so she got the nod over Y who had slightly higher grades and SATs but only played the violin, and we have tons of those. The courts will not tell Harvard what criteria it must use in shaping its classes.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 06:20
Subject: Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
I couldn't agree more hence the eye roll.Anonymous wrote:The sports analogies are stupid. Fundamentally different missions. Only mission of sports is to make money.
Anonymous
11/18/2014 06:17
Subject: Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas
The sports analogies are stupid. Fundamentally different missions. Only mission of sports is to make money.