I plan to leave after K. The reason we are not staying until 5th is because I am afraid that my kid will be behind when we eventually make the move to the suburbs for a good middle school option. I have a family member who is teaching elementary school in VA and they seem to be light years ahead of what is going on in DC schools, simply because they have a population who can be challenged.

Anonymous wrote:Shoot! I thought the answer to the high-SES EOTP DCPS 2nd grade question was SWS, which is ON the hill, but no longer OF the Hill. Hmmm. . .

thats okay, I will follow the progress at Ross, and avoid quibbles over geography

Shoot! I thought the answer to the high-SES EOTP DCPS 2nd grade question was SWS, which is ON the hill, but no longer OF the Hill. Hmmm. . .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and when people say "EoTP" they don't mean the Cap Hill schools. Those are the Cap hill schools. They mean Petworth, Columbia Heights, Logan Circle, Brookland etc.

thank you - I didn't know DCUM terminology. AFAICT in district discussion in general EoTP does include the Hill.

But that's ridiculous - CapHill isn't anywhere near "the park." East of Rock Creek Park are those areas of NW and NE that are, well - east of the park.

So is Cleveland Park not WoTR because its not near the Anacostia?

I read WoTP and EOTR as the distinctive areas - being east of the anacostia means something in terms housing, SES, demographics, politics. being west of rock creek also does. WOTR just means "the rest of DC" as does (in a different sense) EoTP.

Where does EoTP stop? Is Brookland EoTP? It not really closer to Rock Creek than the Hill is. Does it mean EoTP but west of North Cap? West of Georgia Avenue?

Do you have some vested interest in lumping in the Hill with the upper reaches of NW EoTP? They're really not the same, and I speak frome experience. I lived in Brightwood for several years and have friends who live on the Hill. We all dealt with the DCPS/DCPCS systems and would agree that there are stark differences. Take a look at the map, the real estate and the recent history - the Hill is much more gentrified/expensive/has a longer history of school engagement then Petworth, Brightwood/Takoma, and Brookland. Do you really not get that? There's no Capitol Hill Public School Parents' Association in Petworth, Brightwood/Takoma, or Brookland and it is years off because the communities have been much more recently changed, people don't know each other, etc.

can people ever accept that someone is just trying to understand them, and not arguing? I am quite aware that the Hill is unique. Gotcha. But someone above (you maybe?) said that the Hill is not EOTP because its not near the park. Is that it (in which case Brookland is also not EOTP?) or is it the unique educational situation on the Hill, and its prices? If the latter, is it correct to say that EOTP refers to any place in DC that is, well, east of Rock Creek Park, but is not the Hill? Seriously, I am asking.

People are do damned edgy.

Yes, I did say that the Hill doesn't count, both because of basic geography and because the SES demographics and the educational situation are quite different. Sorry to be edgy - I assume everything on DCUM is snark and that's how I read your post. Point taken.

I just want to add, to show I'm not some Hill-hater, some points to demonstrate that the differences are real. Search Redfin for real estate listings - a search for Capitol Hill turns up 12 listings at $1M or more. You've got H Street, Barracks Row, and Eastern Market in the neighborhood and a longtime activist culture. Search Brightwood on Redfin - the most expensive listing for a SFH is $740K and the average for listings is about $550K. It's only become "hot" in the past few years. There's no gentrified commercial corridor (unless you count Wal-Mart as gentrified, LOL). I lived in Brightwood, and on average it was a nice community, but it is VERY different. I tried to rally some parents in the spirit of the Hill Parents' Association and no one was enthusiastic. Most people in these neighborhoods that I meet are like I was - trying to stay in the city in a place they can actually afford on the HHI of mere mortals, trying to make it work, but also not 100% committed to the place forever if it's not working for our families. Much like I assume people were in the early days of the Hill. It's a different reality in that part of the city, with a different mix and culture. And relative to OP's original question, it does matter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s just come to a consensus here, non-geographically speaking, EOTP excludes CapHill and ALL of Ward 3 is WOTP.

Wrong forum - try religion maybe.

Ha!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and when people say "EoTP" they don't mean the Cap Hill schools. Those are the Cap hill schools. They mean Petworth, Columbia Heights, Logan Circle, Brookland etc.

thank you - I didn't know DCUM terminology. AFAICT in district discussion in general EoTP does include the Hill.

But that's ridiculous - CapHill isn't anywhere near "the park." East of Rock Creek Park are those areas of NW and NE that are, well - east of the park.

So is Cleveland Park not WoTR because its not near the Anacostia?

I read WoTP and EOTR as the distinctive areas - being east of the anacostia means something in terms housing, SES, demographics, politics. being west of rock creek also does. WOTR just means "the rest of DC" as does (in a different sense) EoTP.

Where does EoTP stop? Is Brookland EoTP? It not really closer to Rock Creek than the Hill is. Does it mean EoTP but west of North Cap? West of Georgia Avenue?

Do you have some vested interest in lumping in the Hill with the upper reaches of NW EoTP? They're really not the same, and I speak frome experience. I lived in Brightwood for several years and have friends who live on the Hill. We all dealt with the DCPS/DCPCS systems and would agree that there are stark differences. Take a look at the map, the real estate and the recent history - the Hill is much more gentrified/expensive/has a longer history of school engagement then Petworth, Brightwood/Takoma, and Brookland. Do you really not get that? There's no Capitol Hill Public School Parents' Association in Petworth, Brightwood/Takoma, or Brookland and it is years off because the communities have been much more recently changed, people don't know each other, etc.

can people ever accept that someone is just trying to understand them, and not arguing? I am quite aware that the Hill is unique. Gotcha. But someone above (you maybe?) said that the Hill is not EOTP because its not near the park. Is that it (in which case Brookland is also not EOTP?) or is it the unique educational situation on the Hill, and its prices? If the latter, is it correct to say that EOTP refers to any place in DC that is, well, east of Rock Creek Park, but is not the Hill? Seriously, I am asking.

People are do damned edgy.

Yes, I did say that the Hill doesn't count, both because of basic geography and because the SES demographics and the educational situation are quite different. Sorry to be edgy - I assume everything on DCUM is snark and that's how I read your post. Point taken.

Anonymous wrote:Let’s just come to a consensus here, non-geographically speaking, EOTP excludes CapHill and ALL of Ward 3 is WOTP.

Wrong forum - try religion maybe.

Let’s just come to a consensus here, non-geographically speaking, EOTP excludes CapHill and ALL of Ward 3 is WOTP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and when people say "EoTP" they don't mean the Cap Hill schools. Those are the Cap hill schools. They mean Petworth, Columbia Heights, Logan Circle, Brookland etc.

thank you - I didn't know DCUM terminology. AFAICT in district discussion in general EoTP does include the Hill.

But that's ridiculous - CapHill isn't anywhere near "the park." East of Rock Creek Park are those areas of NW and NE that are, well - east of the park.

So is Cleveland Park not WoTR because its not near the Anacostia?

I read WoTP and EOTR as the distinctive areas - being east of the anacostia means something in terms housing, SES, demographics, politics. being west of rock creek also does. WOTR just means "the rest of DC" as does (in a different sense) EoTP.

Where does EoTP stop? Is Brookland EoTP? It not really closer to Rock Creek than the Hill is. Does it mean EoTP but west of North Cap? West of Georgia Avenue?

Do you have some vested interest in lumping in the Hill with the upper reaches of NW EoTP? They're really not the same, and I speak frome experience. I lived in Brightwood for several years and have friends who live on the Hill. We all dealt with the DCPS/DCPCS systems and would agree that there are stark differences. Take a look at the map, the real estate and the recent history - the Hill is much more gentrified/expensive/has a longer history of school engagement then Petworth, Brightwood/Takoma, and Brookland. Do you really not get that? There's no Capitol Hill Public School Parents' Association in Petworth, Brightwood/Takoma, or Brookland and it is years off because the communities have been much more recently changed, people don't know each other, etc.

can people ever accept that someone is just trying to understand them, and not arguing? I am quite aware that the Hill is unique. Gotcha. But someone above (you maybe?) said that the Hill is not EOTP because its not near the park. Is that it (in which case Brookland is also not EOTP?) or is it the unique educational situation on the Hill, and its prices? If the latter, is it correct to say that EOTP refers to any place in DC that is, well, east of Rock Creek Park, but is not the Hill? Seriously, I am asking.

People are do damned edgy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading some of the comments in the Bruce Monroe thread, it puzzles me that many families are taking this route. How do you expect a school to improve if you just up and leave? What’s the point of living in the city? Your jobs or because you hope to land a spot in a Charter?

We are an EOTP family, who unlike others, plan on staying at our Title 1 school up to 5th grade.

Why does this puzzle you? I suppose it's nice that you think it's your job to improve a school, but many parents see it as the school's job to educate their child. That's not exactly the same thing. Not everyone is enrolling in a school with the intention of improving it, and if the school isn't up-to-par by K or 1st grade then parents whose number one priority is a high-quality education are well within their rights to bail.

It's pretty much this. I'm sorry, but my child is not an experiment for me to plug into a social engineering scheme. I'm a hard-core Democrat educated in public schools, but the whole system has become a nightmarish mess. And it's beyond my power to fix. Sorry.

I respect your right to send your kid wherever you feel is best, but please lay off the "social engineering" - I'm sending my kids to my EOTP DCPS school because I think that's what's best for them not for some education planning experiment. Maybe your school is a nightmarish mess - I don't know it or you, but mine isn't and the "whole system" isn't.

If you take out WOTP schools, which are mostly unavailable to EOTP, then DCPS is about a third or a quarter proficient (per DC CAS). In what world is that not nightmarish?

Exactly. And yes, it most certainly is social engineering - from the carefully crafted lottery policies to the parental politics.

This. And the self-affirming pats on the back that these parents are doing the right thing for everybody, while other parents are just selfish.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and when people say "EoTP" they don't mean the Cap Hill schools. Those are the Cap hill schools. They mean Petworth, Columbia Heights, Logan Circle, Brookland etc.

thank you - I didn't know DCUM terminology. AFAICT in district discussion in general EoTP does include the Hill.

But that's ridiculous - CapHill isn't anywhere near "the park." East of Rock Creek Park are those areas of NW and NE that are, well - east of the park.

So is Cleveland Park not WoTR because its not near the Anacostia?

I read WoTP and EOTR as the distinctive areas - being east of the anacostia means something in terms housing, SES, demographics, politics. being west of rock creek also does. WOTR just means "the rest of DC" as does (in a different sense) EoTP.

Where does EoTP stop? Is Brookland EoTP? It not really closer to Rock Creek than the Hill is. Does it mean EoTP but west of North Cap? West of Georgia Avenue?

Do you have some vested interest in lumping in the Hill with the upper reaches of NW EoTP? They're really not the same, and I speak frome experience. I lived in Brightwood for several years and have friends who live on the Hill. We all dealt with the DCPS/DCPCS systems and would agree that there are stark differences. Take a look at the map, the real estate and the recent history - the Hill is much more gentrified/expensive/has a longer history of school engagement then Petworth, Brightwood/Takoma, and Brookland. Do you really not get that? There's no Capitol Hill Public School Parents' Association in Petworth, Brightwood/Takoma, or Brookland and it is years off because the communities have been much more recently changed, people don't know each other, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and when people say "EoTP" they don't mean the Cap Hill schools. Those are the Cap hill schools. They mean Petworth, Columbia Heights, Logan Circle, Brookland etc.

thank you - I didn't know DCUM terminology. AFAICT in district discussion in general EoTP does include the Hill.

But that's ridiculous - CapHill isn't anywhere near "the park." East of Rock Creek Park are those areas of NW and NE that are, well - east of the park.

Yes. While technically it is true that the Hill is "east" of the park, it is also sort of its own animal as far as DC schools are concerned. Please stop being pedantic, other PP.

Im not being pedantic - my earlier thank you was not sarcastic. This IS the first time I heard a definition for EOTP that confines it to areas near Rock Creek. I do understand the Hill is different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and when people say "EoTP" they don't mean the Cap Hill schools. Those are the Cap hill schools. They mean Petworth, Columbia Heights, Logan Circle, Brookland etc.

thank you - I didn't know DCUM terminology. AFAICT in district discussion in general EoTP does include the Hill.

But that's ridiculous - CapHill isn't anywhere near "the park." East of Rock Creek Park are those areas of NW and NE that are, well - east of the park.

Yes. While technically it is true that the Hill is "east" of the park, it is also sort of its own animal as far as DC schools are concerned. Please stop being pedantic, other PP.

Well, the hill is also south of the park, or southeast if you want to get really pedantic about it. My friends on the hill would not consider themselves as being lumped in with the neighborhoods most of us consider EOTP - they are well aware, as you said, that the hill is "it's own animal" in many respects.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and when people say "EoTP" they don't mean the Cap Hill schools. Those are the Cap hill schools. They mean Petworth, Columbia Heights, Logan Circle, Brookland etc.

thank you - I didn't know DCUM terminology. AFAICT in district discussion in general EoTP does include the Hill.

But that's ridiculous - CapHill isn't anywhere near "the park." East of Rock Creek Park are those areas of NW and NE that are, well - east of the park.

So is Cleveland Park not WoTR because its not near the Anacostia?

I read WoTP and EOTR as the distinctive areas - being east of the anacostia means something in terms housing, SES, demographics, politics. being west of rock creek also does. WOTR just means "the rest of DC" as does (in a different sense) EoTP.

Where does EoTP stop? Is Brookland EoTP? It not really closer to Rock Creek than the Hill is. Does it mean EoTP but west of North Cap? West of Georgia Avenue?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and when people say "EoTP" they don't mean the Cap Hill schools. Those are the Cap hill schools. They mean Petworth, Columbia Heights, Logan Circle, Brookland etc.

thank you - I didn't know DCUM terminology. AFAICT in district discussion in general EoTP does include the Hill.

But that's ridiculous - CapHill isn't anywhere near "the park." East of Rock Creek Park are those areas of NW and NE that are, well - east of the park.

Yes. While technically it is true that the Hill is "east" of the park, it is also sort of its own animal as far as DC schools are concerned. Please stop being pedantic, other PP.