I'm not Muslim, but I have two close friends who are Muslim so I cringe when I hear anti-Islam hate speech. I suspect that it is born of ignorance and fear. I didn't hear as much before Gulf War I.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just hink of our trip to Hawaii, sitting on a beach next to a muslim family. The husband and sons were enjoying the beach in their biard shorts. The wife and daughters were covered nearly head to toe in heavy black, long sleeves, heavy head scarf, sweltering in the July sun.

Sitting on a beach in the middle of paradise, those poor ladies looked sweaty and miserable. The guys looked like they were having a blast.

Hmmmm. The veiled Muslims I see at Ocean City go swimming. Now, is wouldn't want to do that fully veiled, but they seemed just fine. Maybe the women you saw don't know how to swim?

I used to think these pictures were a joke.

apparently not?

Anonymous wrote:I just hink of our trip to Hawaii, sitting on a beach next to a muslim family. The husband and sons were enjoying the beach in their biard shorts. The wife and daughters were covered nearly head to toe in heavy black, long sleeves, heavy head scarf, sweltering in the July sun.

Sitting on a beach in the middle of paradise, those poor ladies looked sweaty and miserable. The guys looked like they were having a blast.

Hmmmm. The veiled Muslims I see at Ocean City go swimming. Now, is wouldn't want to do that fully veiled, but they seemed just fine. Maybe the women you saw don't know how to swim?

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the hijab, the niqab and the burqa, although I don't think (might be wrong) it stems from the Quran.

oppressive forms of clothing

same could be said for Jewish dress codes for women (tznuit)

Really? I love them. There is nothing more beautiful to me than a veiled woman. I'm not too hot on the burqa but I love the hijab & niqab. I don't think of them as "Oppressive' at all, to the contrary I find them liberating. It's all about perception....

That is an awesome illustration of the narrow cognitive box that western people live in. Especially those who "live" their lives and "see" the world through the lens of US media.

I always read stories of how Muslim Women are oppressed with their hijabs and niqabs, and have been told in person how sorry people felt for my oppressed self when I wear the hijab. The poor, oppressed Muslim woman, covered from head to toe, has no free will, no rights what-so-ever and is blindly blackmailed into following this backward desert religion, dominated by men and seen almost as a slave trapped in the four walls of her home. To be honest, there is a heavy dose of paternalism and imperialism that comes along, because no one ever asks Muslim women what we think.

Muslim women who choose to wear the hijab are not oppressed, but consider themselves liberated. For many women, the adornment of the headscarf is the representation of the antithesis of female objectification and subjugation in a social sphere where the female body is, essentially, a capitalistic transaction. Women’s bodies are used to sell us, nearly everything, and this undoubtedly has an effect on how women engage with their own bodies and how men and women both engage with one another. Also, you have to understand that everything in our religion (islam) aims to free us from the chains of our egos, from vanity and from self-consumption, all through the belief in one God and through worshipping Him (and how this belief plays out in our daily interactions and self-pursuits). And some Christian (catholic nuns) and Jewish women do cover their hair too, but they are never seen as oppressed, so I don't understand the double standard. For ex, I've never seen a picture of the Virgin Mary with her head not covered but I don't think anyone would look at her as an oppressed woman.

As a non-practicing Catholic, I am aware of the habits. I had a cousin who was a nun in Italy.

still oppressive in my eyes, as I think religion is misogynistic

If Islam "aims to free" you of ego, then it should "free" men the same way.

You can spin it however you like, but there is no equality btw the sexes. I asked about the Quran. While certain items are mentioned (niqab perhaps?), they aren't a "requirement," correct? So if that IS the case, who suggested that women cover?

And the cartoon, while somewhat "entertaining," is nothing more than a depiction of extremes.

So it's not about viewing life through a Western lens; it's about truth. And what's appropriate for men should be appropriate for women.

Ok, let me clarify it a bit. Niqab(face cover) is not a requirement in Islam , hijab (headscarf) is a requirement. In the Qur’an, the direct commandment for post-pubescent women to cover their hair and neck is i:

"Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be modest. That is purer for them. Lo! Allah is Aware of what they do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters sons, or their women..."

You can also read the other verse about the same point, which is verse number 59 in Surah 33. It may be translated as:
{O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them [when they go abroad]. That will be better, that so they may be recognized and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.}

This indicates that one of the reasons for hijab is to distinguish the believing woman from the non-believing. This relates to your second question concerning the logic behind hijab.

It is true that men don’t have to cover their heads, but there is a dress code for them, as well. Men must at least be covered from the navel to the knees with loose fitting clothing. The rules for men are different because women are less likely to ogle men than the other way around. Men also shouldn't cut their beards.

the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also said:"These two [gold and silk] are forbidden for the males of my ummah and permissible for the females.” so Muslim Men can't wear silk or gold. So yeh the freeing of the ego is both for men & women but of course men and women will have a different dress code, just like in any normal society, a man covering his head would not do anything as far as modesty is concerned. Throughout history, in every society, honorable women did cover their head, for ex in Arabia, before Islam women of high lineage covered their heads, only servants woke around with bare heads . Besides following modest dress codes appropriate to the different natures of a man and woman, both Muslim men and women should abide by a certain modest and respectful code of conduct.

I just hink of our trip to Hawaii, sitting on a beach next to a muslim family. The husband and sons were enjoying the beach in their biard shorts. The wife and daughters were covered nearly head to toe in heavy black, long sleeves, heavy head scarf, sweltering in the July sun.

Sitting on a beach in the middle of paradise, those poor ladies looked sweaty and miserable. The guys looked like they were having a blast.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the hijab, the niqab and the burqa, although I don't think (might be wrong) it stems from the Quran.

oppressive forms of clothing

same could be said for Jewish dress codes for women (tznuit)

Really? I love them. There is nothing more beautiful to me than a veiled woman. I'm not too hot on the burqa but I love the hijab & niqab. I don't think of them as "Oppressive' at all, to the contrary I find them liberating. It's all about perception....

That is an awesome illustration of the narrow cognitive box that western people live in. Especially those who "live" their lives and "see" the world through the lens of US media.

I always read stories of how Muslim Women are oppressed with their hijabs and niqabs, and have been told in person how sorry people felt for my oppressed self when I wear the hijab. The poor, oppressed Muslim woman, covered from head to toe, has no free will, no rights what-so-ever and is blindly blackmailed into following this backward desert religion, dominated by men and seen almost as a slave trapped in the four walls of her home. To be honest, there is a heavy dose of paternalism and imperialism that comes along, because no one ever asks Muslim women what we think.

Muslim women who choose to wear the hijab are not oppressed, but consider themselves liberated. For many women, the adornment of the headscarf is the representation of the antithesis of female objectification and subjugation in a social sphere where the female body is, essentially, a capitalistic transaction. Women’s bodies are used to sell us, nearly everything, and this undoubtedly has an effect on how women engage with their own bodies and how men and women both engage with one another. Also, you have to understand that everything in our religion (islam) aims to free us from the chains of our egos, from vanity and from self-consumption, all through the belief in one God and through worshipping Him (and how this belief plays out in our daily interactions and self-pursuits). And some Christian (catholic nuns) and Jewish women do cover their hair too, but they are never seen as oppressed, so I don't understand the double standard. For ex, I've never seen a picture of the Virgin Mary with her head not covered but I don't think anyone would look at her as an oppressed woman.

As a non-practicing Catholic, I am aware of the habits. I had a cousin who was a nun in Italy.

still oppressive in my eyes, as I think religion is misogynistic

If Islam "aims to free" you of ego, then it should "free" men the same way.

You can spin it however you like, but there is no equality btw the sexes. I asked about the Quran. While certain items are mentioned (niqab perhaps?), they aren't a "requirement," correct? So if that IS the case, who suggested that women cover?

And the cartoon, while somewhat "entertaining," is nothing more than a depiction of extremes.

So it's not about viewing life through a Western lens; it's about truth. And what's appropriate for men should be appropriate for women.

Exactly my question. If the whole intent is to free one of dog and judge a person not by their body or looks, why aren't men wearing hijabs? I personally dress conservatively, but would never want to be caught in a black robe in 90 degree weather!

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the hijab, the niqab and the burqa, although I don't think (might be wrong) it stems from the Quran.

oppressive forms of clothing

same could be said for Jewish dress codes for women (tznuit)

Really? I love them. There is nothing more beautiful to me than a veiled woman. I'm not too hot on the burqa but I love the hijab & niqab. I don't think of them as "Oppressive' at all, to the contrary I find them liberating. It's all about perception....

That is an awesome illustration of the narrow cognitive box that western people live in. Especially those who "live" their lives and "see" the world through the lens of US media.

I always read stories of how Muslim Women are oppressed with their hijabs and niqabs, and have been told in person how sorry people felt for my oppressed self when I wear the hijab. The poor, oppressed Muslim woman, covered from head to toe, has no free will, no rights what-so-ever and is blindly blackmailed into following this backward desert religion, dominated by men and seen almost as a slave trapped in the four walls of her home. To be honest, there is a heavy dose of paternalism and imperialism that comes along, because no one ever asks Muslim women what we think.

Muslim women who choose to wear the hijab are not oppressed, but consider themselves liberated. For many women, the adornment of the headscarf is the representation of the antithesis of female objectification and subjugation in a social sphere where the female body is, essentially, a capitalistic transaction. Women’s bodies are used to sell us, nearly everything, and this undoubtedly has an effect on how women engage with their own bodies and how men and women both engage with one another. Also, you have to understand that everything in our religion (islam) aims to free us from the chains of our egos, from vanity and from self-consumption, all through the belief in one God and through worshipping Him (and how this belief plays out in our daily interactions and self-pursuits). And some Christian (catholic nuns) and Jewish women do cover their hair too, but they are never seen as oppressed, so I don't understand the double standard. For ex, I've never seen a picture of the Virgin Mary with her head not covered but I don't think anyone would look at her as an oppressed woman.

As a non-practicing Catholic, I am aware of the habits. I had a cousin who was a nun in Italy.

still oppressive in my eyes, as I think religion is misogynistic

If Islam "aims to free" you of ego, then it should "free" men the same way.

You can spin it however you like, but there is no equality btw the sexes. I asked about the Quran. While certain items are mentioned (niqab perhaps?), they aren't a "requirement," correct? So if that IS the case, who suggested that women cover?

And the cartoon, while somewhat "entertaining," is nothing more than a depiction of extremes.

So it's not about viewing life through a Western lens; it's about truth. And what's appropriate for men should be appropriate for women.

Thank you PP, looks like documentary is actually available here for free http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KatiezCAAtY

I strongly encourage anyone who would like to know more about Islam and Muslims to watch this wonderful documentary about a Gallup poll with a billion Muslims. Many of you will be surprised at what you will learn. Reading many if the replies here reminds me how important education is. The best thing anyone can do to understand some of things better is to actually go out and meet someone who is Muslim. You will see that you have much more in common than you think.

http://www.upf.tv/films/inside-islam/

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the hijab, the niqab and the burqa, although I don't think (might be wrong) it stems from the Quran.

oppressive forms of clothing

same could be said for Jewish dress codes for women (tznuit)

Really? I love them. There is nothing more beautiful to me than a veiled woman. I'm not too hot on the burqa but I love the hijab & niqab. I don't think of them as "Oppressive' at all, to the contrary I find them liberating. It's all about perception....

That is an awesome illustration of the narrow cognitive box that western people live in. Especially those who "live" their lives and "see" the world through the lens of US media.

I always read stories of how Muslim Women are oppressed with their hijabs and niqabs, and have been told in person how sorry people felt for my oppressed self when I wear the hijab. The poor, oppressed Muslim woman, covered from head to toe, has no free will, no rights what-so-ever and is blindly blackmailed into following this backward desert religion, dominated by men and seen almost as a slave trapped in the four walls of her home. To be honest, there is a heavy dose of paternalism and imperialism that comes along, because no one ever asks Muslim women what we think.

Muslim women who choose to wear the hijab are not oppressed, but consider themselves liberated. For many women, the adornment of the headscarf is the representation of the antithesis of female objectification and subjugation in a social sphere where the female body is, essentially, a capitalistic transaction. Women’s bodies are used to sell us, nearly everything, and this undoubtedly has an effect on how women engage with their own bodies and how men and women both engage with one another. Also, you have to understand that everything in our religion (islam) aims to free us from the chains of our egos, from vanity and from self-consumption, all through the belief in one God and through worshipping Him (and how this belief plays out in our daily interactions and self-pursuits). And some Christian (catholic nuns) and Jewish women do cover their hair too, but they are never seen as oppressed, so I don't understand the double standard. For ex, I've never seen a picture of the Virgin Mary with her head not covered but I don't think anyone would look at her as an oppressed woman.

Because of terrorism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Didn't Christians mass murder heretics by burning them at the stake?

No.

The Spanish Inquisition executed fewer than 4,000 people in 350 years. Hardly mass murder. Stalin, Mao, and other atheistic liberal heroes would regard 4,000 deaths in one day as evidence of insufficient revolutionary zeal on the part of their executioners.

I bet they admired the Christians who managed to wipe out whole tribes all over the Americas.

I read the book Infidel..abound a woman who did not want to be Muslim. That and 9/11 really changed my view....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not anti-Islam.

I just want Muslims to stay in their own countries and not come here. Nothing good comes of it when they do.

Silly and misguided.

Most Muslims who live here were born here. So they likely will stay in their country. The US.

Up to a third of the slaves were Muslim. They built this country that you enjoy.

Do you have a site for this? I have never read that before. I have heard several hundred but not A third. Where did you read that statistic?

It's in multiple places. Some say 10-15%. Some say 25-30% of African slaves were Muslim.

http://www.tolerance.org/publication/american-muslims-united-states

http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/islam-in-america/

http://islam.about.com/od/history/a/afammuslims.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-muslims-in-america/2011/03/30/AFePWOIC_story.html

http://nyupress.org/books/book-details.aspx?bookId=11900#.U-F0r_ldWLE

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the hijab, the niqab and the burqa, although I don't think (might be wrong) it stems from the Quran.

oppressive forms of clothing

same could be said for Jewish dress codes for women (tznuit)

Really? I love them. There is nothing more beautiful to me than a veiled woman. I'm not too hot on the burqa but I love the hijab & niqab. I don't think of them as "Oppressive' at all, to the contrary I find them liberating. It's all about perception....

That is an awesome illustration of the narrow cognitive box that western people live in. Especially those who "live" their lives and "see" the world through the lens of US media.