Anonymous
07/15/2014 14:45
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP As a rule of thumb: When one person draws up a detailed financial plan in all this detail presents it to you and your lawyer takes one glance at it and says "fine!" you are getting screwed.
Lose the argument that you would have made six figures. That's not working. But you need a good lawyer. What stands put to me is that he has a fully paid off place and you have the mortgage on the house. And 3 years does not sound like much if you have followed him for 10+.
When you use the term following spouse does that mean you were in a foreign posting where you could not work?
It sure sounds to me like you need a good lawyer!
OP here again. The other house is not paid off. It too has a mortgage.
I'm the "devil's advocate" pp.
FYI, for the "it's your choice, live with it" posters: Virginia law specifically permits the judge, when determining whether to enter spousal support, should consider:
1. The obligations, needs and financial resources of the parties, including but not limited to income from all pension, profit sharing or retirement plans, of whatever nature;
2. The standard of living established during the marriage;
3. The duration of the marriage;
***
11. The decisions regarding employment, career, economics, education and parenting arrangements made by the parties during the marriage and their effect on present and future earning potential, including the length of time one or both of the parties have been absent from the job market;
12. The extent to which either party has contributed to the attainment of education, training, career position or profession of the other party
Section 20-107.1
It seems to me that she is probably entitled to some spousal support. I read yesterday that Virginia no longer automatically awards permanent spousal support, but there is a presumption that spousal support will be permanent if it was a long-term marriage, and a presumption for a limited duration if the marriage was short term. Regarding the amount, someone asked if the fairfax county formula is for child support or spousal support. I think it's for spousal support only.
Accepting OP's representation that the split is basically 50/50 on the assets & debts (though I do question what happens to the 50% equity in the home if she does not refinance), I think you should tell DH that if, as he says, he wants an end to all the fighting and a clean break, then he needs to offer more than what he thinks is fair. He needs to offer what she thinks is fair. That's your mantra. If he wants to fight about every little thing, fine. But if he doesn't, he has to give in.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 14:35
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:1) Your child is not your divorce pawn. Don't ever say that again.
2) No life lost. You made your decisions. Deal with it.
3) See a damn attorney. They will help you negotiate. There's a whole year to go before you can file for divorce. [/qu
Why do women try to use kids as pawns? I have an attorney friend who tells me 1/2 the cases she sees the women try to use the kids as leverage against the dads, she will. It work with such women.
I'm a woman, but why would any parent feel it's ok to try something like that? Dad's do it too.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 14:13
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
Anonymous wrote:1) Your child is not your divorce pawn. Don't ever say that again.
2) No life lost. You made your decisions. Deal with it.
3) See a damn attorney. They will help you negotiate. There's a whole year to go before you can file for divorce. [/qu
Why do women try to use kids as pawns? I have an attorney friend who tells me 1/2 the cases she sees the women try to use the kids as leverage against the dads, she will. It work with such women.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 14:09
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
Anonymous wrote:OP As a rule of thumb: When one person draws up a detailed financial plan in all this detail presents it to you and your lawyer takes one glance at it and says "fine!" you are getting screwed.
Lose the argument that you would have made six figures. That's not working. But you need a good lawyer. What stands put to me is that he has a fully paid off place and you have the mortgage on the house. And 3 years does not sound like much if you have followed him for 10+.
When you use the term following spouse does that mean you were in a foreign posting where you could not work?
It sure sounds to me like you need a good lawyer!
OP here again. The other house is not paid off. It too has a mortgage.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 11:00
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
Anonymous wrote:1) Your child is not your divorce pawn. Don't ever say that again.
2) No life lost. You made your decisions. Deal with it.
3) See a damn attorney. They will help you negotiate. There's a whole year to go before you can file for divorce.
Exactly. OP, you're bitter that he's had more financial success than you did and now gets to "call the shots." Suck it up. You were complicit in that decision. Bet when you were spending money from the accounts he was contributing more to, you weren't complaining.
Poor kid. Hope she gets lots of time with your husband, since he seems far more reasonable than you do.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 10:56
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
I agree that you should apologize for bringing DC into the financial discussion and simply say, you were very upset at the discussion and did not mean that. And mean what you say when you apologize. Not only is it bad for your child (obviously), it makes you look bad, plain and simple.
Remember that most of what happens now can appear as his account in a court document, and anything written can be used as an attachment. Try and always be the bigger person. You want to be the one that sounds reasonable and in control of your emotions. It's hard, but you want to be that person -- only helps you.
As for the support and settlement offer, I agree with the PPs who suggest that you go to another attorney and have the settlement reviewed. If you have retained your attorney, I would double check that you don't piss him or her off. Your other option is to meet with your current attorney and use the draft settlement as a starting point and negotiate from there. It is a negotiated document, so you do not have to just accept what your STBX is offering.
I'm divorced and was working with two kids under 5 at the time. I did not seek alimony, even though my ex makes much more money than me. I felt like that would prolong an unhealthy relationship between the two of us. Screw that!
I have one friend who received alimony for a short period of time while she found a job. And the job she found did not pay much. The alimony decreased and then expired. You can negotiate a better split of the assets and child-related expenses (above and beyond child support) if you think the offer is unfair.
Remember that most of what happens now can appear as his account in a court document, and anything written can be used as an attachment. Try and always be the bigger person. You want to be the one that sounds reasonable and in control of your emotions. It's hard, but you want to be that person -- only helps you.
As for the support and settlement offer, I agree with the PPs who suggest that you go to another attorney and have the settlement reviewed. If you have retained your attorney, I would double check that you don't piss him or her off. Your other option is to meet with your current attorney and use the draft settlement as a starting point and negotiate from there. It is a negotiated document, so you do not have to just accept what your STBX is offering.
I'm divorced and was working with two kids under 5 at the time. I did not seek alimony, even though my ex makes much more money than me. I felt like that would prolong an unhealthy relationship between the two of us. Screw that!
I have one friend who received alimony for a short period of time while she found a job. And the job she found did not pay much. The alimony decreased and then expired. You can negotiate a better split of the assets and child-related expenses (above and beyond child support) if you think the offer is unfair.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 10:52
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
I would rather have title to the fully paid off home. Especially since he expects to have to pay capital gain taxes when it is sold, so it has appreciated a lot. Plus if he lives in it for a mere 2 years he can get the first $250,000 tax exempt.
Definitely more for college.
Definitely more for college.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 10:49
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
OP As a rule of thumb: When one person draws up a detailed financial plan in all this detail presents it to you and your lawyer takes one glance at it and says "fine!" you are getting screwed.
Lose the argument that you would have made six figures. That's not working. But you need a good lawyer. What stands put to me is that he has a fully paid off place and you have the mortgage on the house. And 3 years does not sound like much if you have followed him for 10+.
When you use the term following spouse does that mean you were in a foreign posting where you could not work?
It sure sounds to me like you need a good lawyer!
Lose the argument that you would have made six figures. That's not working. But you need a good lawyer. What stands put to me is that he has a fully paid off place and you have the mortgage on the house. And 3 years does not sound like much if you have followed him for 10+.
When you use the term following spouse does that mean you were in a foreign posting where you could not work?
It sure sounds to me like you need a good lawyer!
Anonymous
07/15/2014 10:42
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
1) Your child is not your divorce pawn. Don't ever say that again.
2) No life lost. You made your decisions. Deal with it.
3) See a damn attorney. They will help you negotiate. There's a whole year to go before you can file for divorce.
2) No life lost. You made your decisions. Deal with it.
3) See a damn attorney. They will help you negotiate. There's a whole year to go before you can file for divorce.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 10:40
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
DH seems like the level headed, fair and mature person in this relationship. Perhaps he should go for full custody.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 10:34
Subject: Re:What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would press for more money for college for your child. I would ask for financial disclosure. what is the second (rental)property worth? If he's proposing splitting the house, but taking the second property, that doesn't seem fair. I would suggest splitting the house, but his share gets reduced by 50 percent of the worth of the rental property.
Otherwise, I don't think--despite what you feel is right--that you're going to get better alimony, given that you have been employed and are employed.
also total up retirements and split down the middle.
keep in mind the cost of lawyers duking it out. I wouldn't necessarily accept this draft, but I would accept something close to it--sounds like your STBX is being reasonable and wants to move forward. Much better than someone who is going to fight for the death over everything.
OP here. He has listed out all the debts and assets for me. I can view everything on Mint.com. What he is proposing is somewhat what the PP suggests, however he says my share is reduced b/c he is willing to take on the lions share of the marital debt and that the second property, if sold, is subject to capital gains, which he would have to shoulder, unless he moves into the property. It is currently rented out. He is maintaining health insurance coverage for DC and life insurance of $1 million in DC's name.
I just feel I need more cashflow on a monthly basis. DH tells me that he is being more than fair, doesn't want to fight about it, is tired of fighting over every little thing (which is why he says he wants the divorce) and simply wants to break and move on while maintaining relationship with DC. I sort of lost it last night on him and told him he may never see DC again if I don't get what I want. Bad I know, but I was just pissed.
Whoah. I'm actually on your side -- I think you should see a good lawyer and see about getting more of the retirement, and that you have some interest in the second property. But you are DEAD WRONG about "never seeing DC again." His relationship with your kid has nothing to do with his relationship with you. Snap out of that mode fast. I get that you're hurt and betrayed, but do not use your child as a pawn. I mean it, snap out of that now, apologize, and never ever even hint at it again. If you do, you will be a bad, bad human being.
DH can tell you that he's being fair all he wants and that he doesn't want to fight about it. It ain't over until a lawyer who you trust tells you that it's the best deal you can get. He doesn't get to decide how much you will fight for your share.
He also wouldn't be the first guy to "forget" some stuff when listing out all the debts and assets. Just sayin'.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 10:34
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
Anonymous wrote:In Fairfax county, which has a standard formula (according to my lawyer), you would get nothing.
How does that work? Divorce in VA spouse gets nothing?
Anonymous
07/15/2014 10:28
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
I'm sorry, but for your daughter's sake could you please go to therapy? You really don't sound very stable. No one "owes" you anything, and threatening to keep your child from your ex when he's offering you a reasonable settlement just because you "don't get what I want" is completely unreasonable.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 10:09
Subject: Re:What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
Anonymous wrote:I would press for more money for college for your child. I would ask for financial disclosure. what is the second (rental)property worth? If he's proposing splitting the house, but taking the second property, that doesn't seem fair. I would suggest splitting the house, but his share gets reduced by 50 percent of the worth of the rental property.
Otherwise, I don't think--despite what you feel is right--that you're going to get better alimony, given that you have been employed and are employed.
also total up retirements and split down the middle.
keep in mind the cost of lawyers duking it out. I wouldn't necessarily accept this draft, but I would accept something close to it--sounds like your STBX is being reasonable and wants to move forward. Much better than someone who is going to fight for the death over everything.
OP here. He has listed out all the debts and assets for me. I can view everything on Mint.com. What he is proposing is somewhat what the PP suggests, however he says my share is reduced b/c he is willing to take on the lions share of the marital debt and that the second property, if sold, is subject to capital gains, which he would have to shoulder, unless he moves into the property. It is currently rented out. He is maintaining health insurance coverage for DC and life insurance of $1 million in DC's name.
I just feel I need more cashflow on a monthly basis. DH tells me that he is being more than fair, doesn't want to fight about it, is tired of fighting over every little thing (which is why he says he wants the divorce) and simply wants to break and move on while maintaining relationship with DC. I sort of lost it last night on him and told him he may never see DC again if I don't get what I want. Bad I know, but I was just pissed.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 09:35
Subject: What is Just Compensation for a "Life Lost"?
Time to do some major networking with those peers of yours from grad school.
So he came to you and asked forms divorce and had this agreement already written up? Harsh. You have to be separated for a year in VA, so take the time to consult with a couple of lawyers.
So he came to you and asked forms divorce and had this agreement already written up? Harsh. You have to be separated for a year in VA, so take the time to consult with a couple of lawyers.