Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 11:40     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

This. We can debate the point at which the %FARMS starts to become counterproductive, but what to do to make the theory into reality? On some other thread someone explained how school choice worked in another state -- the county published lists of schools with open slots and parents could apply for those spaces, but would need to reapply at the next stage (MS or HS) and were responsible for their own transportation. That's more or less the way that DC works, and those of us who had kids in DC and who lived through this process can attest to how chaotic it can be. We got into our first choice out of the block, and with sibling preferences, we were set for ES. But many people applied every year (and sometimes mid-year) to try to get into a school, drove their kids all over town in the meantime, and we all missed out on the concept of a neighborhood school, school friends you could visit on foot or by bike, and the simple pleasure of not spending 2 hours a day in transit. I can see where open enrollment can, on the margins, even out some places like the Cold Spring/Ritchie Park imbalance pointed out elsewhere, but it's no silver bullet for county-wide imbalances, especially in a county as big as Montgomery.


Agreed. We don't know at what point the % of FARMS becomes counter-productive for low-income kids, but the report is completely correcting that housing policy is school policy.

The problem is that this is a feature, not a bug. Housing policy reflects the desire of people with money to live over here, as far as possible from the poor people over there. And part of the reason for that desire is schools.


I don't think it's fair to say that all people who live in the green zone chose to live there to get "as far as possible from the poor people." I'm sure there are some, but there are also a bunch like us who lived in DC in very mixed neighborhoods, and who hoped to get a better academic experience in MD. Would have been great to retain more diversity, while getting what we wanted in terms of things like walkability, commute time, and yes, the high performing schools, but we couldn't have it all. The fact of the matter is that MoCo is pretty segregated -- I get that I don't help matters by choosing a green zone school instead of living in the red zone (seriously never heard these terms before two weeks ago), but it is not a situation I created because I allegedly dislike poor people. FWIW, I'm not white, and our household income is quite modest. We were able to buy here only because we were lucky to own a house in DC that appreciated a ton. Yes, we are lucky, and perhaps even "privileged" in the scheme of things -- but I don't deserve the suggestion that I must despise the poor because of where I chose to live.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 11:40     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
But it would be so sad, if the rich girl couldn't have the over-the-top prom she'd always dreamed of, just because all of those pesky poor students in her class!


You're missing the point and focusing on the W student prom aspect. Look at the bigger picture--why does the W student have to give up the life she is used to? Why can't she stay at her school? And while everyone is focusing on the W student going to the DCC school--no one is addressing the social/economic impact to the DCC student who is now at the W school? What about that child's feelings? How does that family pay for things that are the norm at the higher SES school?

I'm not disputing that the education provided should be level across the county. I believe that all schools should offer the same courses and rigor. If one school in a cluster offers Chinese, then one school in EACH cluster should offer Chinese so that all children across the county have access to a similar education.


What you're saying is that public schools should be economically segregated for the self-esteem of the students.

All I can say about that is that I disagree.


Ok--how to propose to address a teenagers self-esteem? A huge part of HS is fitting in. How do you propose you help the kids fit in?


Bizarre.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 11:35     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:But can't she still have all of those things at the DCC school? The county wouldn't be taking away her money or her car, just sending her to a different school. You could actually take a whole neighborhood and send them to a DCC school so that there would still be a community school.


But it would be so sad, if the rich girl couldn't have the over-the-top prom she'd always dreamed of, just because all of those pesky poor students in her class!


You're missing the point and focusing on the W student prom aspect. Look at the bigger picture--why does the W student have to give up the life she is used to? Why can't she stay at her school? And while everyone is focusing on the W student going to the DCC school--no one is addressing the social/economic impact to the DCC student who is now at the W school? What about that child's feelings? How does that family pay for things that are the norm at the higher SES school?

I'm not disputing that the education provided should be level across the county. I believe that all schools should offer the same courses and rigor. If one school in a cluster offers Chinese, then one school in EACH cluster should offer Chinese so that all children across the county have access to a similar education.


Compared to the rest of the US, we are considered upper SES, but here in DC area, we are probably average. That said, the school my DCs go to have some families that are wealthier than us, and some that are poorer than us. That's just life. Unless you are #1 on Forbes richest at all times, someone will always have more than you. A teenager, on both sides of the SES, can deal with this reality.

I grew up middle/lower SES, and I remember not having any money on field trips, etc.. while my friends did. It did suck. But it was life. I'm pretty sure my parents would have rather had me at an academically enriching school than a lower performing one just to save my feelings.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 11:33     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
But it would be so sad, if the rich girl couldn't have the over-the-top prom she'd always dreamed of, just because all of those pesky poor students in her class!


You're missing the point and focusing on the W student prom aspect. Look at the bigger picture--why does the W student have to give up the life she is used to? Why can't she stay at her school? And while everyone is focusing on the W student going to the DCC school--no one is addressing the social/economic impact to the DCC student who is now at the W school? What about that child's feelings? How does that family pay for things that are the norm at the higher SES school?

I'm not disputing that the education provided should be level across the county. I believe that all schools should offer the same courses and rigor. If one school in a cluster offers Chinese, then one school in EACH cluster should offer Chinese so that all children across the county have access to a similar education.


What you're saying is that public schools should be economically segregated for the self-esteem of the students.

All I can say about that is that I disagree.


Ok--how to propose to address a teenagers self-esteem? A huge part of HS is fitting in. How do you propose you help the kids fit in?
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 11:32     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:But can't she still have all of those things at the DCC school? The county wouldn't be taking away her money or her car, just sending her to a different school. You could actually take a whole neighborhood and send them to a DCC school so that there would still be a community school.


If you took an entire neighborhood so that there was still a community cohesion, I think that would be good. If you took students by lottery, I think you would lose the neighborhood school feel.

But that brings up another point---what about driving back and forth for after school activities? It's great when the kids get their licenses and can drive, but for the 1st 2 yrs of HS, that's not reality. And if my kid needs me to pick her up across the county that's going to present a transportation issue. Or if my kid has a program in the evening that I just can't get to because of other children, transportation, and traffic, that's also an issue.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 11:32     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:
But it would be so sad, if the rich girl couldn't have the over-the-top prom she'd always dreamed of, just because all of those pesky poor students in her class!


You're missing the point and focusing on the W student prom aspect. Look at the bigger picture--why does the W student have to give up the life she is used to? Why can't she stay at her school? And while everyone is focusing on the W student going to the DCC school--no one is addressing the social/economic impact to the DCC student who is now at the W school? What about that child's feelings? How does that family pay for things that are the norm at the higher SES school?

I'm not disputing that the education provided should be level across the county. I believe that all schools should offer the same courses and rigor. If one school in a cluster offers Chinese, then one school in EACH cluster should offer Chinese so that all children across the county have access to a similar education.


What you're saying is that public schools should be economically segregated for the self-esteem of the students.

All I can say about that is that I disagree.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 11:28     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:But can't she still have all of those things at the DCC school? The county wouldn't be taking away her money or her car, just sending her to a different school. You could actually take a whole neighborhood and send them to a DCC school so that there would still be a community school.


But it would be so sad, if the rich girl couldn't have the over-the-top prom she'd always dreamed of, just because all of those pesky poor students in her class!


You're missing the point and focusing on the W student prom aspect. Look at the bigger picture--why does the W student have to give up the life she is used to? Why can't she stay at her school? And while everyone is focusing on the W student going to the DCC school--no one is addressing the social/economic impact to the DCC student who is now at the W school? What about that child's feelings? How does that family pay for things that are the norm at the higher SES school?

I'm not disputing that the education provided should be level across the county. I believe that all schools should offer the same courses and rigor. If one school in a cluster offers Chinese, then one school in EACH cluster should offer Chinese so that all children across the county have access to a similar education.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 11:21     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:But can't she still have all of those things at the DCC school? The county wouldn't be taking away her money or her car, just sending her to a different school. You could actually take a whole neighborhood and send them to a DCC school so that there would still be a community school.


But it would be so sad, if the rich girl couldn't have the over-the-top prom she'd always dreamed of, just because all of those pesky poor students in her class!
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 11:13     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
But can't she still have all of those things at the DCC school? The county wouldn't be taking away her money or her car, just sending her to a different school. You could actually take a whole neighborhood and send them to a DCC school so that there would still be a community school.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 11:09     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What happens to the social imbalances? The county can allow/force people to move between school districts. But that doesn't change where you come from.

So for example, if you live in a DCC cluster and are not wealthy and end up in a W district, how do you address some of social/financial inequities? Does your child just learn to feel left out? Does the local PTA take responsibility for paying for things like prom tickets that your family might not be able to afford?

Conversely, what about the W child who now goes to a DCC school. For years the child dreamed of HS in a certain manner--a car to drive, a limo to prom, the most fashionable clothes. Her neighbors go to the local W school and have this lifestyle. It's what she was brought up with and what she expects. But now her reality is very different and she is teased and mocked for her fashionable clothes. Her prom is not a high end production as her friends have but rather a lower cost dance.


Is this post tongue-in-cheek, or real?

Seriously?


I'm the parent that wrote this and yes it is serious. HS is not only about the lower economic SES. The academic and social needs of ALL children in the county need to be addressed.


Oh. My.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 11:08     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What happens to the social imbalances? The county can allow/force people to move between school districts. But that doesn't change where you come from.

So for example, if you live in a DCC cluster and are not wealthy and end up in a W district, how do you address some of social/financial inequities? Does your child just learn to feel left out? Does the local PTA take responsibility for paying for things like prom tickets that your family might not be able to afford?

Conversely, what about the W child who now goes to a DCC school. For years the child dreamed of HS in a certain manner--a car to drive, a limo to prom, the most fashionable clothes. Her neighbors go to the local W school and have this lifestyle. It's what she was brought up with and what she expects. But now her reality is very different and she is teased and mocked for her fashionable clothes. Her prom is not a high end production as her friends have but rather a lower cost dance.



Is this post tongue-in-cheek, or real?

Seriously?


I'm the parent that wrote this and yes it is serious. HS is not only about the lower economic SES. The academic and social needs of ALL children in the county need to be addressed.

Is this from a teenager or a parent? Lord help us if it's a parent.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 10:47     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What happens to the social imbalances? The county can allow/force people to move between school districts. But that doesn't change where you come from.

So for example, if you live in a DCC cluster and are not wealthy and end up in a W district, how do you address some of social/financial inequities? Does your child just learn to feel left out? Does the local PTA take responsibility for paying for things like prom tickets that your family might not be able to afford?

Conversely, what about the W child who now goes to a DCC school. For years the child dreamed of HS in a certain manner--a car to drive, a limo to prom, the most fashionable clothes. Her neighbors go to the local W school and have this lifestyle. It's what she was brought up with and what she expects. But now her reality is very different and she is teased and mocked for her fashionable clothes. Her prom is not a high end production as her friends have but rather a lower cost dance.



Is this post tongue-in-cheek, or real?

Seriously?


Is this from a teenager or a parent? Lord help us if it's a parent.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 10:33     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:What happens to the social imbalances? The county can allow/force people to move between school districts. But that doesn't change where you come from.

So for example, if you live in a DCC cluster and are not wealthy and end up in a W district, how do you address some of social/financial inequities? Does your child just learn to feel left out? Does the local PTA take responsibility for paying for things like prom tickets that your family might not be able to afford?

Conversely, what about the W child who now goes to a DCC school. For years the child dreamed of HS in a certain manner--a car to drive, a limo to prom, the most fashionable clothes. Her neighbors go to the local W school and have this lifestyle. It's what she was brought up with and what she expects. But now her reality is very different and she is teased and mocked for her fashionable clothes. Her prom is not a high end production as her friends have but rather a lower cost dance.



Is this post tongue-in-cheek, or real?

Seriously?
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 10:32     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:What happens to the social imbalances? The county can allow/force people to move between school districts. But that doesn't change where you come from.

So for example, if you live in a DCC cluster and are not wealthy and end up in a W district, how do you address some of social/financial inequities? Does your child just learn to feel left out? Does the local PTA take responsibility for paying for things like prom tickets that your family might not be able to afford?

Conversely, what about the W child who now goes to a DCC school. For years the child dreamed of HS in a certain manner--a car to drive, a limo to prom, the most fashionable clothes. Her neighbors go to the local W school and have this lifestyle. It's what she was brought up with and what she expects. But now her reality is very different and she is teased and mocked for her fashionable clothes. Her prom is not a high end production as her friends have but rather a lower cost dance.



I love the melodramatic picture you have painted. Poor little rich girl.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2014 10:31     Subject: Should MCPS start busing or open enrollment?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I agree, but I suggest that busing be designed so that no elementary school has more than 20% of students on FARMS. That means that some low SES kids get bused to Potomac, Chevy Chase, and Bethesda and some high SES kids get bused to Silver Spring, Wheaton, Gaithersburg.
All middle schools and high schools should either have a magnet program, immersion program, or some other special program to attract high performing students and those that have potential, but have not yet been motivated to highly perform. There should be some programs that you must test into and some that are purely lottery based.

Of course, this will never happen because high SES parents would vote out any school board members who dared suggest it. Starr would be ridden out of town on a rail for even hinting that their snowflakes might rub elbows with a poor kid.

So the gap will remain.



Given that 33 % of MCPS kids are on FARMS, what do you propose to do with that 13%?

I'm torn on this. On one hand, I'd love to see more diversity in our local school. On the other hand, having lived in DC and traipsed across the city for "school choice" and experienced living on a block where the 10 kids went to 9 different schools, I really appreciate the fact that my kid can walk to school, and walk to friends' houses, and see school friends at the local park, etc . . . I would hate to give that up.

What MoCo really needs is more scattered site low income housing. Rather than busing low income kids to our neighborhood, I wish they'd figure out a way for those families to live here.


BINGO!

It will never happen, though, because those in expensive neighborhoods will exercise influence to see that it doesn't. They don't want their kids rubbing elbows with children from poor families.

Housing, it is all about housing.