Anonymous wrote:Love that in the middle of all this questioning on how Westbriar ES AAP came about, there's a parent questioning whether it's a good enough center for their snowflake.

Thank you, at least someone noticed it.

I didn't start this thread why it was made an AAP center but to check how they are doing in terms of AAP center.

I need to make a decision soon whether to move to the area that feeds to Westbriar.

I didn't hear too many good things about westbriar yet.

I don't see any indication that anyone has been acting in bad faith here, but I do see how some GenEd parents at Westbriar who thought the AAP center there would be comparatively small may eventually end up with an AAP center school similar to other centers (Archer, Churchill Road, Colvin Run, Haycock) in terms of the ratio of AAP to GenEd students.

And that's exactly what all the boosters, (principals, PTA prez, etc.) said would not happen. Hence the bad faith when anyone with half a brain could see that if you build an AAP center, they will come. In droves!

And lest you forget, FCPS labels services, not students. So there is no such thing as an AAP student, or AAP parent, Gen Ed Student or Gen Ed parent. In fact there will be many parents who are likely to seem some of their children receiving AAP and others receiving Gen Ed at Westbriar. I'm sure they'll have no problem with the division.

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Anonymous wrote:Many Westbriar parents as well as the principal encouraged the school to be a center. They even helped persuade Stenwood and Freedom Hill parents to argue against going to Lemon Road even though those schools are very close to the Lemon Road border and almost all go on to the same middle and high school as the Lemon Road kids.

And this makes sense how? Basically people were lured by a "better" neighborhood. Navy Elementary was also turned into a center and you hear little about it on these forums. Why is that? It's only Louise Archer, Haycock and now Westbriar.

The principal wanted this so the principal was going to get this no matter what she had to say or how disingenuous she had to be. Most of the parents who supported this have younger kids and have big dreams for their kids and little clue how centers work or how divisive they can be no matter what the principal says. I feel sorry for the families at Westbriar now -- they have no idea what a monstrosity that school is going to turn into. Their only hope is that ultimately a new Tysons school picks up some of the capacity.

Such drama! It's like Lisa Pilson at Westbriar gets to play the evil Kelly Shears role in the sequel to the Haycock movie.

Schools around Tysons are growing. It inevitably results in program and boundary adjustments. Kids get reassigned, and it's messy, but life goes on and they still get to attend good schools. I guess you'd be happier if Virginia employment figures continue to tank and the growth comes to a halt.

There's a difference between necessary boundary adjustments and unnecessarily doubling the size of a school. Especially when that means drawing people from distant neighborhoods ie. more traffic into an already congested area. Or perhaps you should move here and see for yourself.

Are you saying you wanted the extra traffic routed to Lemon Road/Idylwood Road rather than Westbriar/Old Courthouse Road? Sounds kind of NIMBY.

In any event, I don't think Westbriar's population has doubled yet, due to the opening of the AAP center. Before that ever were to happen, it appears that FCPS plans to move the "Westbriar island" off Beulah that is physically separated from the rest of the Westbriar attendance district to Colvin Run and/or Wolftrap ES, both of which are expected to have extra capacity. Many families in that area wanted to be assigned to Colvin Run when it was opened, but FCPS didn't accommodate the request at the time, as it would have either made Colvin Run a triple-feeder (Langley/McLean/Marshall) or required changes to the existing MS/HS assignments. Now that Cooper and Langley are under-enrolled, FCPS may decide to move at least some of the Westbriar island to Colvin Run/Cooper/Langley, which would bring down the total enrollment at Westbriar.

I don't see any indication that anyone has been acting in bad faith here, but I do see how some GenEd parents at Westbriar who thought the AAP center there would be comparatively small may eventually end up with an AAP center school similar to other centers (Archer, Churchill Road, Colvin Run, Haycock) in terms of the ratio of AAP to GenEd students.

Love that in the middle of all this questioning on how Westbriar ES AAP came about, there's a parent questioning whether it's a good enough center for their snowflake.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Westbriar parents as well as the principal encouraged the school to be a center. They even helped persuade Stenwood and Freedom Hill parents to argue against going to Lemon Road even though those schools are very close to the Lemon Road border and almost all go on to the same middle and high school as the Lemon Road kids.

And this makes sense how? Basically people were lured by a "better" neighborhood. Navy Elementary was also turned into a center and you hear little about it on these forums. Why is that? It's only Louise Archer, Haycock and now Westbriar.

The principal wanted this so the principal was going to get this no matter what she had to say or how disingenuous she had to be. Most of the parents who supported this have younger kids and have big dreams for their kids and little clue how centers work or how divisive they can be no matter what the principal says. I feel sorry for the families at Westbriar now -- they have no idea what a monstrosity that school is going to turn into. Their only hope is that ultimately a new Tysons school picks up some of the capacity.

Such drama! It's like Lisa Pilson at Westbriar gets to play the evil Kelly Shears role in the sequel to the Haycock movie.

Schools around Tysons are growing. It inevitably results in program and boundary adjustments. Kids get reassigned, and it's messy, but life goes on and they still get to attend good schools. I guess you'd be happier if Virginia employment figures continue to tank and the growth comes to a halt.

There's a difference between necessary boundary adjustments and unnecessarily doubling the size of a school. Especially when that means drawing people from distant neighborhoods ie. more traffic into an already congested area. Or perhaps you should move here and see for yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Westbriar parents as well as the principal encouraged the school to be a center. They even helped persuade Stenwood and Freedom Hill parents to argue against going to Lemon Road even though those schools are very close to the Lemon Road border and almost all go on to the same middle and high school as the Lemon Road kids.

And this makes sense how? Basically people were lured by a "better" neighborhood. Navy Elementary was also turned into a center and you hear little about it on these forums. Why is that? It's only Louise Archer, Haycock and now Westbriar.

The principal wanted this so the principal was going to get this no matter what she had to say or how disingenuous she had to be. Most of the parents who supported this have younger kids and have big dreams for their kids and little clue how centers work or how divisive they can be no matter what the principal says. I feel sorry for the families at Westbriar now -- they have no idea what a monstrosity that school is going to turn into. Their only hope is that ultimately a new Tysons school picks up some of the capacity.

Such drama! It's like Lisa Pilson at Westbriar gets to play the evil Kelly Shears role in the sequel to the Haycock movie.

Schools around Tysons are growing. It inevitably results in program and boundary adjustments. Kids get reassigned, and it's messy, but life goes on and they still get to attend good schools. I guess you'd be happier if Virginia employment figures continue to tank and the growth comes to a halt.

Anonymous wrote:Many Westbriar parents as well as the principal encouraged the school to be a center. They even helped persuade Stenwood and Freedom Hill parents to argue against going to Lemon Road even though those schools are very close to the Lemon Road border and almost all go on to the same middle and high school as the Lemon Road kids.

And this makes sense how? Basically people were lured by a "better" neighborhood. Navy Elementary was also turned into a center and you hear little about it on these forums. Why is that? It's only Louise Archer, Haycock and now Westbriar.

The principal wanted this so the principal was going to get this no matter what she had to say or how disingenuous she had to be. Most of the parents who supported this have younger kids and have big dreams for their kids and little clue how centers work or how divisive they can be no matter what the principal says. I feel sorry for the families at Westbriar now -- they have no idea what a monstrosity that school is going to turn into. Their only hope is that ultimately a new Tysons school picks up some of the capacity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many Westbriar parents as well as the principal encouraged the school to be a center. They even helped persuade Stenwood and Freedom Hill parents to argue against going to Lemon Road even though those schools are very close to the Lemon Road border and almost all go on to the same middle and high school as the Lemon Road kids.

Many parents were thrilled when it was announced it would become a center. Would be interested if they still feel that way.

NP here- why would they not be thrilled so quickly? It's been an AAP center for less than a year- what could have changed that dramatically?

Anonymous wrote:Many Westbriar parents as well as the principal encouraged the school to be a center. They even helped persuade Stenwood and Freedom Hill parents to argue against going to Lemon Road even though those schools are very close to the Lemon Road border and almost all go on to the same middle and high school as the Lemon Road kids.

Many parents were thrilled when it was announced it would become a center. Would be interested if they still feel that way.

Many Westbriar parents as well as the principal encouraged the school to be a center. They even helped persuade Stenwood and Freedom Hill parents to argue against going to Lemon Road even though those schools are very close to the Lemon Road border and almost all go on to the same middle and high school as the Lemon Road kids.

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Anonymous wrote:I think this purported plethora of choices for AAP students pales with the number of choices students and parents of all students have to make beginning in middle school.

But that's just it - ALL students have these choices to make in middle and high school. Why not in elementary school as well? Kids who are capable of "advanced" work should be given ample opportunity to participate. AAP shouldn't be limited to certain kids only. There are plenty of Gen Ed kids who are just as capable. Yet, unlike AAP kids, they are not given the choice of whether to attend a different school, with free transportation thrown in.

Do you really want it tossed back in your face that a determination has been made that certain students are more capable of handling an advanced curriculum than others at that particular stage in their development? Or that students who are zoned for a school with both GenEd and an AAP center do not get to pick schools? Or that expecting GenEd kids who are not ready for LLIV or AAP programs to tackle the additional challenges could do them more harm than good? Or that there are also plenty of non-AAP kids who receive benefits from FCPS that kids in AAP typically do not receive?

I'm agnostic as to what the "right" answer is here, but I don't think it's obvious that substantially scaling back AAP would improve FCPS. If anything, it might accelerate FCPS's transition to a system similar to MCPS, where the distinctions between the desirable schools and the undesirable schools are more pronounced, and well-known to parents, than in FCPS.

Anonymous wrote:I think this purported plethora of choices for AAP students pales with the number of choices students and parents of all students have to make beginning in middle school.

But that's just it - ALL students have these choices to make in middle and high school. Why not in elementary school as well? Kids who are capable of "advanced" work should be given ample opportunity to participate. AAP shouldn't be limited to certain kids only. There are plenty of Gen Ed kids who are just as capable. Yet, unlike AAP kids, they are not given the choice of whether to attend a different school, with free transportation thrown in.

I think this purported plethora of choices for AAP students pales with the number of choices students and parents of all students have to make beginning in middle school.

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Anonymous wrote:Some at Lemon Road complain the AAP program there is too small and doesn't have "critical mass." Others at Westbriar complain the AAP program there will get too big and overwhelm the school. It's no surprise that the School Board doesn't do what the "community" wants when the "community" doesn't speak with one voice.

Oh enough of you already....you clearly need some instruction on how things work in this area. Basically, the loudest voices at Westbriar and other schools that would be affected were the voices of parents who didn't want their kids going to school in the Lemon Road neighborhood. Period. Just like the Vienna folks that didn't want their kids to go to Luther Jackson for middle school. It is appalling that the School Board let them get away with it.

How polite you are (not). Why exactly shouldn't some Westbriar AAP parents prefer not to send their kids to an elementary school on the other side of Tysons? There is nothing wrong about the immediate Lemon Road neighborhood (it's in a nice area off Idylwood Road). But it is a bit of a hike if you happen to live in Vienna off Old Courthouse or Beulah Road.

I'm just being honest, which many of the parents were not. I've visited Lemon Road and have no problem with where it is or what the student make up is, but a number of the parents of affected schools in this case drive their kids over hells half acre around here to get them to various enrichment programs (languages, Bethesda or BRYC soccer three times a week, anyone?) so to claim that Lemon Road was too far is disingenuous at best.

BTW, Westbriar kids feed into Kilmer and GCM high school, both of which are on the other side of Tysons, so again, given that there is a bus service, I'm not really buying this argument.

There are far fewer middle and high schools than elementary schools, so you have to accept the longer distance later. That doesn't mean it's outrageous for someone at Westbriar to ask for an AAP option closer than Lemon Road. And if more AAP kids were at Lemon Road, someone else would be complaining about how the school was now overrun with AAP kids from Vienna and how GenEd kids at Lemon Road were getting the short end. The kvetching just never stops.

Still think it's a phony argument -- there are parents who would drive their kids to Alexandria from Vienna every day if FCPS suddenly put a highly gifted magnet there and called it TJ Prep elementary school. The nature of this whole center-based system is that no one but the base school families care when their local school is turned into an AAP center. They're the ones who suffer and see their community turned into something most never wanted it to be and they're the ones whose voices are not heard. As other PP's have noted, the AAP parents and their wannabees always drown everyone else out. The sooner FCPS is forced to move to a model where level IV kids stay at their base schools their needs can usually easily be met, the better. And I say this as a parent who had a kid in GT. I get it. But the numbers have just gotten too big and many of the kids who are forcing the shift to more center just aren't that special.

I think the fallacy of your argument jumps off the screen. On the one hand, no one but the base school parents "care" in the current system, in your opinion, yet on the other hand it's only AAP parents who speak in and are heard.

I guess that type of fantasy is convenient if you just want to rail against AAP and demonize other AAP parents, but it's also sorely lacking in logic. There is a cacophony of voices that is heard at different volumes in different situations, and sometimes it leads to decisions that appear to favor AAP students and other times it leads to decisions that appear to disadvantage them. One could have a discussion as to the proper scale and structure of an AAP program, and the circumstances in which the needs of students could be met equally well in base schools rather than dedicated centers, but the fact is that the growth of AAP programs is a response to factors that are more complex than simply one group of parents imposing their wishes on others against their will.

At no point have I ever seen a situation in which AAP students have been "disadvantaged". The mere fact that they are offered two choices regarding where to be educated - at their base school or at a center, with free busing provided - speaks volumes. What kinds of choices are General Ed. kids being offered?

I know this is an unpopular opinion on this site but I think the AAP kids who were kicked out of Haycock were disadvantaged. I'm sure Lemon Road will be a fine AAP center but the kids should have been permitted to finish at Haycock. The unnecessary stress of another school change was very unfair. What's done is done but please don't say the AAP kids always win.

The AAP kids as a group are the only ones even being given a choice - do they want to be in AAP at all, do they want to stay at their base school, do they want to be bused to a center. It is advantageous to be offered choices, no? General Ed. students aren't given any such options. In my opinion, and that of many others, AAP kids are given far too many choices when compared with all the other kids in FCPS. What makes this group of kids special and deserving of more options than any others? The whole system is designed to favor them and no one seems to be brave enough to put the brakes on and rein things in.

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Anonymous wrote:Some at Lemon Road complain the AAP program there is too small and doesn't have "critical mass." Others at Westbriar complain the AAP program there will get too big and overwhelm the school. It's no surprise that the School Board doesn't do what the "community" wants when the "community" doesn't speak with one voice.

Oh enough of you already....you clearly need some instruction on how things work in this area. Basically, the loudest voices at Westbriar and other schools that would be affected were the voices of parents who didn't want their kids going to school in the Lemon Road neighborhood. Period. Just like the Vienna folks that didn't want their kids to go to Luther Jackson for middle school. It is appalling that the School Board let them get away with it.

How polite you are (not). Why exactly shouldn't some Westbriar AAP parents prefer not to send their kids to an elementary school on the other side of Tysons? There is nothing wrong about the immediate Lemon Road neighborhood (it's in a nice area off Idylwood Road). But it is a bit of a hike if you happen to live in Vienna off Old Courthouse or Beulah Road.

I'm just being honest, which many of the parents were not. I've visited Lemon Road and have no problem with where it is or what the student make up is, but a number of the parents of affected schools in this case drive their kids over hells half acre around here to get them to various enrichment programs (languages, Bethesda or BRYC soccer three times a week, anyone?) so to claim that Lemon Road was too far is disingenuous at best.

BTW, Westbriar kids feed into Kilmer and GCM high school, both of which are on the other side of Tysons, so again, given that there is a bus service, I'm not really buying this argument.

There are far fewer middle and high schools than elementary schools, so you have to accept the longer distance later. That doesn't mean it's outrageous for someone at Westbriar to ask for an AAP option closer than Lemon Road. And if more AAP kids were at Lemon Road, someone else would be complaining about how the school was now overrun with AAP kids from Vienna and how GenEd kids at Lemon Road were getting the short end. The kvetching just never stops.

Still think it's a phony argument -- there are parents who would drive their kids to Alexandria from Vienna every day if FCPS suddenly put a highly gifted magnet there and called it TJ Prep elementary school. The nature of this whole center-based system is that no one but the base school families care when their local school is turned into an AAP center. They're the ones who suffer and see their community turned into something most never wanted it to be and they're the ones whose voices are not heard. As other PP's have noted, the AAP parents and their wannabees always drown everyone else out. The sooner FCPS is forced to move to a model where level IV kids stay at their base schools their needs can usually easily be met, the better. And I say this as a parent who had a kid in GT. I get it. But the numbers have just gotten too big and many of the kids who are forcing the shift to more center just aren't that special.

I think the fallacy of your argument jumps off the screen. On the one hand, no one but the base school parents "care" in the current system, in your opinion, yet on the other hand it's only AAP parents who speak in and are heard.

I guess that type of fantasy is convenient if you just want to rail against AAP and demonize other AAP parents, but it's also sorely lacking in logic. There is a cacophony of voices that is heard at different volumes in different situations, and sometimes it leads to decisions that appear to favor AAP students and other times it leads to decisions that appear to disadvantage them. One could have a discussion as to the proper scale and structure of an AAP program, and the circumstances in which the needs of students could be met equally well in base schools rather than dedicated centers, but the fact is that the growth of AAP programs is a response to factors that are more complex than simply one group of parents imposing their wishes on others against their will.

At no point have I ever seen a situation in which AAP students have been "disadvantaged". The mere fact that they are offered two choices regarding where to be educated - at their base school or at a center, with free busing provided - speaks volumes. What kinds of choices are General Ed. kids being offered?

I know this is an unpopular opinion on this site but I think the AAP kids who were kicked out of Haycock were disadvantaged. I'm sure Lemon Road will be a fine AAP center but the kids should have been permitted to finish at Haycock. The unnecessary stress of another school change was very unfair. What's done is done but please don't say the AAP kids always win.