Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 19:39     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
What about the families who don't have functioning schools? They pay taxes and want their money's worth too. In the end, SF didn't have a mass exodus. RE in SF is booming.

(Personally, I think this whole discussion will fade into the background like a PP mentioned. We will revisit it in 2+ years.) Families will just live with over-crowded schools. More families will go private to avoid the over-crowded classes. Those who cannot afford private will just have to live with it and be thankful they have a school that is functioning. Status Quo.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 19:17     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
Anonymous wrote:
I suppose I am particularly OK with moving because I thought we'd have to move out for middle school anyway, so this is just accelerating the process.


I agree with everything you wrote, OP. We'd leave as well. I don't like uncertainty and I definitely won't gamble with our kids' education. I value community very much. School certainty and community are non-negotiable for our family. We can easily find it across either border with our friends who left years ago if DC tries to take away our neighborhood school.

Seems to me like the school situation will return to what it was like in the 90s if other families feel like we do.


We'll do worse: we will stay in DC but will move to private. This is much worse: we will stay as angry and disappointed voters against either new mayor who will endorse this shit.


That's not a bad idea!
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 19:08     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I beg you people, please do not show up to these meetings tomorrow and Tuesday yammering on about how you'll move (or worse, sue). That is not going to help move the debate on this. Please come up with a more mature line of discussion that will actually influence the discussion. Talk about what's working and what is not. Figure out ways to address what's not working. Talk about the lack of middle schools, the failure of education campuses, the huge investments in facilities that serve very few, etc. Don't be lured by the consultant-speak or the comparisons to any other city. But most importantly don't render yourself irrelevant by crossing your arms and talking about voting with your feet. That's a threat that many are more than happy to hear from you.


Do you think that middle and upper SES families choosing to move en-masse wouldn't influence the discussion? I think they should know what may end up being a logical result to some of the proposals they are making.


Just give your opinion on the scenarios without the threats. I promise you it will be taken as arrogance and dismissed. They are counting on some people leaving but care more about justice and educational equity. Simple register your opinion on their proposals.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 18:55     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I beg you people, please do not show up to these meetings tomorrow and Tuesday yammering on about how you'll move (or worse, sue). That is not going to help move the debate on this. Please come up with a more mature line of discussion that will actually influence the discussion. Talk about what's working and what is not. Figure out ways to address what's not working. Talk about the lack of middle schools, the failure of education campuses, the huge investments in facilities that serve very few, etc. Don't be lured by the consultant-speak or the comparisons to any other city. But most importantly don't render yourself irrelevant by crossing your arms and talking about voting with your feet. That's a threat that many are more than happy to hear from you.


Do you think that middle and upper SES families choosing to move en-masse wouldn't influence the discussion? I think they should know what may end up being a logical result to some of the proposals they are making.


Odd, in my view move out to the DC, to the privates, and to sue is a very serious and mature position. At the meeting (I plan to attend both tomorrow and on Tuesday) I will not shout it histerically, I can talk for hours and lecture on why I will sue and will move to private school . Bad move DC, as my 3 kids are keeping your scores high, as are my $$$ contributions to the PTA.

Deal Mom & Dad
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 18:49     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:we would move too. and if though people are flocking to DC now, making the city inhospitable to middle class families is not a smart move. DC is small, poeple would simply move a few miles and have MOCO or VA schools, go private or cling to charters. more middle class families would flee DCPS, and even schools that now are doing well would tank. and for people who think lots of gay couple would buy 4bd homes, you probably do not have kids in school, because at our DCPS elementary school there is plenty of gay couples with kids who are very much interested in not having to drive their kids around for stupid reasons. improve the schools that are struggling, don't trash the ones that are working.


This.


Not only parents, but also gay teachers with kids in my DCPS school.

Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 18:47     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
Anonymous wrote:I beg you people, please do not show up to these meetings tomorrow and Tuesday yammering on about how you'll move (or worse, sue). That is not going to help move the debate on this. Please come up with a more mature line of discussion that will actually influence the discussion. Talk about what's working and what is not. Figure out ways to address what's not working. Talk about the lack of middle schools, the failure of education campuses, the huge investments in facilities that serve very few, etc. Don't be lured by the consultant-speak or the comparisons to any other city. But most importantly don't render yourself irrelevant by crossing your arms and talking about voting with your feet. That's a threat that many are more than happy to hear from you.


Do you think that middle and upper SES families choosing to move en-masse wouldn't influence the discussion? I think they should know what may end up being a logical result to some of the proposals they are making.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 18:47     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?

I suppose I am particularly OK with moving because I thought we'd have to move out for middle school anyway, so this is just accelerating the process.


I agree with everything you wrote, OP. We'd leave as well. I don't like uncertainty and I definitely won't gamble with our kids' education. I value community very much. School certainty and community are non-negotiable for our family. We can easily find it across either border with our friends who left years ago if DC tries to take away our neighborhood school.

Seems to me like the school situation will return to what it was like in the 90s if other families feel like we do.


We'll do worse: we will stay in DC but will move to private. This is much worse: we will stay as angry and disappointed voters against either new mayor who will endorse this shit.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 18:45     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
Anonymous wrote:we would move too. and if though people are flocking to DC now, making the city inhospitable to middle class families is not a smart move. DC is small, poeple would simply move a few miles and have MOCO or VA schools, go private or cling to charters. more middle class families would flee DCPS, and even schools that now are doing well would tank. and for people who think lots of gay couple would buy 4bd homes, you probably do not have kids in school, because at our DCPS elementary school there is plenty of gay couples with kids who are very much interested in not having to drive their kids around for stupid reasons. improve the schools that are struggling, don't trash the ones that are working.


This.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 18:40     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is the OP here. People are welcome to say good riddance to us, PP - but if I don't have the school I want for our kids, and can afford to move, why on earth would I stay? Childfree people will then move to our house and be happy enough there and everything will balance itself out. I like walking everywhere and being close to work, but not enough to send any of my children to a school I don't care for.

To the PP who mentioned geographical component - I saw that but the problem is we live on the Hill where our inbound school is good (Brent) but any of the other neighboring ones, not so much, so any school choice that has a decent chance of landing my DD at e.g. Tyler Traditional (or sending half of Tyler Traditional students to Brent) is not really great.


If this comes about, they will try and lure you to stay with promises of great programs and shiny new stuff. The inequality at this point is so great in our school system ( for example between the education one receives at Brent, and the one at Tyler Traditional ) that those is charge are willing to gamble that you really want to stay and will give up some certainty to do so.


OP here. Well, I can't speak for other parents, of course, but they would be gambling wrong as far as it comes to me. I like certainty that my children would get to go to a good school more than I do my admittedly lovely townhouse and short commute. (Would a lot of people really stay? It's one thing to stay and work hard to improve a struggling school when you know the same children will be there every year for years and/or it will be your kid's friends going there and the parents working together to make things better, and another to do it when due to the controlled choice everyone is scattered and there is no continuity year to year or between children). I suppose if they did controlled choice and all the schools involved were awesome, I'd consider staying, but that is obviously not the case.

I suppose I am particularly OK with moving because I thought we'd have to move out for middle school anyway, so this is just accelerating the process.


I agree with everything you wrote, OP. We'd leave as well. I don't like uncertainty and I definitely won't gamble with our kids' education. I value community very much. School certainty and community are non-negotiable for our family. We can easily find it across either border with our friends who left years ago if DC tries to take away our neighborhood school.

Seems to me like the school situation will return to what it was like in the 90s if other families feel like we do.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 18:29     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:At this point, I do not see why Grey would want to implement controlled choice/city-wide lottery.

He won't be able to use it as a propaganda theme for the race, nor he needs it to give back to his Wards , which have just mildly supported him (lower numbers that he expected showed up at the primary polls).



See, my concern is the opposite -- he has nothing to lose (e.g. he doesn't face re-election), so there is no barrier to him supporting and implementing controlled choice/city-wide lottery. It may be controversial, but it could benefit to the people to which he has ties (either due to the fact that they are the people in his neighborhood, the people who supported him, etc.) and to which he may feel loyal and/or a debt of gratitude. So in that scenario, why NOT implement it? What does he care if all the people who voted against him in the primary don't like it?

If Gray were to officially "adopt" the program before he leaves, then I worry that it is a done deal if Bowser is elected. I suspect she would be inclined to just go with the flow, versus Catania, who I feel would be much more inclined to come in and say "nope nope nope."


He would offend so many people by shoving the Mayor's Order down their throats, that it would never stick. The candidates during the general election will state a wait-and-see approach. The City Council would never allow it to happen.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 18:27     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
I agree thus gives Gray more not less leverage to be extreme.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 18:25     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
Anonymous wrote:At this point, I do not see why Grey would want to implement controlled choice/city-wide lottery.

He won't be able to use it as a propaganda theme for the race, nor he needs it to give back to his Wards , which have just mildly supported him (lower numbers that he expected showed up at the primary polls).



See, my concern is the opposite -- he has nothing to lose (e.g. he doesn't face re-election), so there is no barrier to him supporting and implementing controlled choice/city-wide lottery. It may be controversial, but it could benefit to the people to which he has ties (either due to the fact that they are the people in his neighborhood, the people who supported him, etc.) and to which he may feel loyal and/or a debt of gratitude. So in that scenario, why NOT implement it? What does he care if all the people who voted against him in the primary don't like it?

If Gray were to officially "adopt" the program before he leaves, then I worry that it is a done deal if Bowser is elected. I suspect she would be inclined to just go with the flow, versus Catania, who I feel would be much more inclined to come in and say "nope nope nope."
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 18:22     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
Anonymous wrote:In addition to the above. they should be able to respond:
- Social changes and extra monetary/non-monetary costs for families due to the fact that kids will not be able to go to school by themselves (if parents need to stay home, i.e. do not have the extra 40 mins to/from school to ride by bus the kid to school - should they hire a babysitter)?
- Cost of parents' transportation (bus ticket ride) if they can't no longer walk to school
- Traffic impact (all out at the same time!) and crowding of public transportation
- Net impact on school outcomes due to "desirable" families leaving DCPS (to go to private school)
- Net impact on school outcomes due to "desirable" families moving to Montgomery County
- Net impact on PTA resources (and thus academic outcomes) of reduced contributions to PTA from wealthy families leaving DCPS
- Net impact on PTA resources (and thus academic outcomes) of reduced contributions to PTA from neighborhod disaffiliation (several PTA fund-raisers, are participated by the neighborhood not only by the parents)

etc etc




Plus they need to commit and state it clear and loud, that they will keep consistent DCPS performing tests (current DC-CAS format) over the next years, and not introduce a new standardized testing method, just to interrupt the time-series continuity and hide the perverse negative effects they will get in most of the present high performing schools (and the just mild effect on the not-so-good ones).
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 18:19     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
Catania has my vote for many reasons.
Anonymous
Post 04/04/2014 18:19     Subject: What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?
At this point, I do not see why Grey would want to implement controlled choice/city-wide lottery.

He won't be able to use it as a propaganda theme for the race, nor he needs it to give back to his Wards , which have just mildly supported him (lower numbers that he expected showed up at the primary polls).