Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 21:43     Subject: Re:Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:Was more curious about this thread on Blair as part of the DCC but don't have kids going there. With all of the questions about teaching comparison, I thought I would pull up some scores (from Schools at a Glance). I pulled out one racial demographic and one socio-economic demographic:

Whitman -
The white children all scored >95% on the MSA, 87% algebra proficiency, 89% geometry proficiency and 93% took AP level classes
There were not enough FARMS children to publish scores for the MSA, 35% algebra proficiency, 38% geometry proficiency and 62% took AP

Blair
The white children all scored >95% on the MSA exams, 91% algebra proficiency, 90% geometry proficiency and >95% took AP level classes
The FARMS children scored around 90% on the MSA exams, 43% algebra proficiency, 50.2% geometry proficiency and 69% took AP

So with some background info being the same, it appears that the outcomes are similar and might be a little better at Blair. I don't know how to factor in the magnet but I also can't factor in the skewed socio-economic differences either.

I will say that my child attends a school with a high FARMs rate and the teachers are fantastic. They teach to all levels and are engaged so I don't think that a high FARMs school means bad teachers. Sometimes the resources are stretched because there are kids who need additional help that they are not getting at home, but the school does a great job of meeting everyone's needs.

Getting back to the OP, I can agree that these things happen and are not great. I think whether the school takes them seriously and addressed the issue keeps the kids safe - that is the important thing. I went to a well off school that had drugs, fights, etc. However, those issues didn't bleed into the main student body and stayed on the periphery unless you got involved.


Winston Churchill HS: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04602.pdf
Montgomery Blair HS: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04757.pdf
Blair had 43.3% of FARMS and students 54.6% of black complete Algebra with a "C" or Higher by Grade 9
Churchill had 65.6% of FARMS and 62.7% of black students complete Algebra with a "C" or Higher by Grade 9
So, if we are going to use the type of comparison that you advocate, Blair does not look good. Blair does not do well by FARMS students or black students in the Algebra matrix. Again, this is the type of comparison you have chosen.
Mind you, Blair includes magnet statistics in many of the numbers and magnet students tend to be the best form most of the county.
It seems, at best your analysis is incomplete and misleading.
You might also want to ask Blair for academic ineligibility and suspension numbers and compare them with their appropriate demographic at other schools.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 14:36     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
That's lovely, PP. Thank you for pulling together and summarizing the data.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 14:32     Subject: Re:Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Was more curious about this thread on Blair as part of the DCC but don't have kids going there. With all of the questions about teaching comparison, I thought I would pull up some scores (from Schools at a Glance). I pulled out one racial demographic and one socio-economic demographic:

Whitman -
The white children all scored >95% on the MSA, 87% algebra proficiency, 89% geometry proficiency and 93% took AP level classes
There were not enough FARMS children to publish scores for the MSA, 35% algebra proficiency, 38% geometry proficiency and 62% took AP

Blair
The white children all scored >95% on the MSA exams, 91% algebra proficiency, 90% geometry proficiency and >95% took AP level classes
The FARMS children scored around 90% on the MSA exams, 43% algebra proficiency, 50.2% geometry proficiency and 69% took AP

So with some background info being the same, it appears that the outcomes are similar and might be a little better at Blair. I don't know how to factor in the magnet but I also can't factor in the skewed socio-economic differences either.

I will say that my child attends a school with a high FARMs rate and the teachers are fantastic. They teach to all levels and are engaged so I don't think that a high FARMs school means bad teachers. Sometimes the resources are stretched because there are kids who need additional help that they are not getting at home, but the school does a great job of meeting everyone's needs.

Getting back to the OP, I can agree that these things happen and are not great. I think whether the school takes them seriously and addressed the issue keeps the kids safe - that is the important thing. I went to a well off school that had drugs, fights, etc. However, those issues didn't bleed into the main student body and stayed on the periphery unless you got involved.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 13:02     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Thank you to all who expressed their feelings on this topic. A number of us were mulling over moving or considering staying put and sending our children to Blair. You've helped us make that decision. Thank you.

To Blair supporters I would suggest that you hold off on suggesting anyone who poses a question about Blair is a Poolesville supporter.

Lastly, for the lecture on apples-to-apples comparison let me point out that MCPS data allows for a comparison between schools of similar demographics as well as comparison between similar groups at different schools. If you do care about making the right comparison, you should ask Blair to disagregate the performance of students in its magnet program from the performance of the "regular school."


What number?


I live in the Blair boundary area (DTSS) and have never met anyone mulling over a move for that reason. Nevertheless "a number" of them may exist. But considering that this year over 100 DCC 8th graders who named Blair their first HS choice had to be turned away for lack of seats, there are most definitely " a number" of families who would thank you for clearing out. Good luck wherever you wind up!
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 12:48     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:
Thank you to all who expressed their feelings on this topic. A number of us were mulling over moving or considering staying put and sending our children to Blair. You've helped us make that decision. Thank you.

To Blair supporters I would suggest that you hold off on suggesting anyone who poses a question about Blair is a Poolesville supporter.

Lastly, for the lecture on apples-to-apples comparison let me point out that MCPS data allows for a comparison between schools of similar demographics as well as comparison between similar groups at different schools. If you do care about making the right comparison, you should ask Blair to disagregate the performance of students in its magnet program from the performance of the "regular school."


What number?
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 12:45     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: Just a simple question--------------is a Blair education good as that at any "W" school by any measure[/b]?


Well, it's an extremely stupid question, demonstrating extreme ignorance, but, yes, for the Blair kids who fit the same demographic profile as their W counterparts, and come to the table with the same external advantages, the outcome is the same. Surely you get that, right?


Definitely. A bad teacher (my older daughter had 2 at Blair, both in math) is less disastrous to a kid from a middle or high SES family. We paid for tutors and emailed the teacher, department head, and administrators weekly until instruction improved (case #1) or a transfer to another teacher came through (case #2).


In the most obnoxious and offensive manner (surely, you get that, right?) what you are saying is that the teaching at Blair is the same at any W counterpart. Now that is stupidity at its zenith!! Look at the academic indicators and tell me how ypu justify your belief.


C'mon, to try to use the overall academic indicators of very different places as proof, without any context, is a willfully obtuse act. It would get you tossed out of any intro class in social science.

Let me go through it again. To make a real apples-to-apples comparison of the ACADEMIC experience provided by Blair and, say, Wootton, you must do so using like peer groups. Which means in a diverse school like Blair, you must separate the kids from educated, middle-to-high SES backgrounds from their more academically challenged ESOL and FARMs schoolmates. For THOSE kids, the ACADEMIC experience is the same. Both schools offer the exact same advanced classes taught by a spectrum of teachers of varying abilities. Both schools offer a peer group of similarly advanced students. Both schools serve as launch pads to excellent colleges. That is provable by the Naviance, or even just the annual list in Bethesda magazine.

Now those schools will offer very different CULTURAL experiences. For some families, that's where the discomfort lies. I would argue that Blair's diversity contributes to the overall educational experience, but that's a personal bias. Others may feel differently and that's their personal bias. The thing is, people are often uncomfortable owning that kind of bias, so they like to claim it's really about the academics.




Thank you to all who expressed their feelings on this topic. A number of us were mulling over moving or considering staying put and sending our children to Blair. You've helped us make that decision. Thank you.

To Blair supporters I would suggest that you hold off on suggesting anyone who poses a question about Blair is a Poolesville supporter.

Lastly, for the lecture on apples-to-apples comparison let me point out that MCPS data allows for a comparison between schools of similar demographics as well as comparison between similar groups at different schools. If you do care about making the right comparison, you should ask Blair to disagregate the performance of students in its magnet program from the performance of the "regular school."


Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 10:36     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: Just a simple question--------------is a Blair education good as that at any "W" school by any measure[/b]?


Well, it's an extremely stupid question, demonstrating extreme ignorance, but, yes, for the Blair kids who fit the same demographic profile as their W counterparts, and come to the table with the same external advantages, the outcome is the same. Surely you get that, right?


Definitely. A bad teacher (my older daughter had 2 at Blair, both in math) is less disastrous to a kid from a middle or high SES family. We paid for tutors and emailed the teacher, department head, and administrators weekly until instruction improved (case #1) or a transfer to another teacher came through (case #2).


In the most obnoxious and offensive manner (surely, you get that, right?) what you are saying is that the teaching at Blair is the same at any W counterpart. Now that is stupidity at its zenith!! Look at the academic indicators and tell me how ypu justify your belief.


C'mon, to try to use the overall academic indicators of very different places as proof, without any context, is a willfully obtuse act. It would get you tossed out of any intro class in social science.

Let me go through it again. To make a real apples-to-apples comparison of the ACADEMIC experience provided by Blair and, say, Wootton, you must do so using like peer groups. Which means in a diverse school like Blair, you must separate the kids from educated, middle-to-high SES backgrounds from their more academically challenged ESOL and FARMs schoolmates. For THOSE kids, the ACADEMIC experience is the same. Both schools offer the exact same advanced classes taught by a spectrum of teachers of varying abilities. Both schools offer a peer group of similarly advanced students. Both schools serve as launch pads to excellent colleges. That is provable by the Naviance, or even just the annual list in Bethesda magazine.

Now those schools will offer very different CULTURAL experiences. For some families, that's where the discomfort lies. I would argue that Blair's diversity contributes to the overall educational experience, but that's a personal bias. Others may feel differently and that's their personal bias. The thing is, people are often uncomfortable owning that kind of bias, so they like to claim it's really about the academics.

Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 08:26     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Of course you don't have to explain anything to anybody Including why you're so fixated on Blair..

Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 08:25     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:^^^also, I'm awarding you a bonus point for the "chip on your shoulder" part -- that's always a good thing to say when you want to make it somebody else's fault that you're saying offensive things.

But then I'm taking the bonus point away again, because I didn't go to Blair, and my children don't and won't go to Blair, so no chip.


Well, if you have nothing to do with Blair, I wonder why you like to label any questions about the school as "offensive." You are obviously invested in Blair.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 08:23     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the most obnoxious and offensive manner (surely, you get that, right?) what you are saying is that the teaching at Blair is the same at any W counterpart. Now that is stupidity at its zenith!! Look at the academic indicators and tell me how ypu justify your belief.


Look at the demographic differences between Blair and Whitman, and then tell me how you justify your belief that the teaching at Blair must be worse.

(I sure hope that the justification won't be, "Well, OBVIOUSLY any good teacher would rather teach at Whitman than Blair.)

And you haven't answered the question of why you're so fixated on Blair.


Get your chip off your shoulder.
1. No one made any assessment about teaching at Blair.
2. The demographic differences between Blair and Whitman prove nothing about teaching at either place.

The constant attacks that are hurled at anyone who dares to ask a question about Blair makes one wonder about the school. So, do Blair a favor and stop attacking people.


"...what you are saying is that the teaching at Blair is the same at any W counterpart. Now that is stupidity at its zenith!! Look at the academic indicators and tell me how you justify your belief" certainly is an assessment about teaching at Blair.

But I'm glad that you agree with me that the demographic differences between Blair and Whitman prove nothing about teaching at either place.

And you still haven't answered the question of why you're so fixated on Blair.


i don't know if you've realized that this is an anonymous forum and no one appointed you the guardian of Blair. No one needs to explain anything to you.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 08:03     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
^^^also, I'm awarding you a bonus point for the "chip on your shoulder" part -- that's always a good thing to say when you want to make it somebody else's fault that you're saying offensive things.

But then I'm taking the bonus point away again, because I didn't go to Blair, and my children don't and won't go to Blair, so no chip.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 07:57     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the most obnoxious and offensive manner (surely, you get that, right?) what you are saying is that the teaching at Blair is the same at any W counterpart. Now that is stupidity at its zenith!! Look at the academic indicators and tell me how ypu justify your belief.


Look at the demographic differences between Blair and Whitman, and then tell me how you justify your belief that the teaching at Blair must be worse.

(I sure hope that the justification won't be, "Well, OBVIOUSLY any good teacher would rather teach at Whitman than Blair.)

And you haven't answered the question of why you're so fixated on Blair.


Get your chip off your shoulder.
1. No one made any assessment about teaching at Blair.
2. The demographic differences between Blair and Whitman prove nothing about teaching at either place.

The constant attacks that are hurled at anyone who dares to ask a question about Blair makes one wonder about the school. So, do Blair a favor and stop attacking people.


"...what you are saying is that the teaching at Blair is the same at any W counterpart. Now that is stupidity at its zenith!! Look at the academic indicators and tell me how you justify your belief" certainly is an assessment about teaching at Blair.

But I'm glad that you agree with me that the demographic differences between Blair and Whitman prove nothing about teaching at either place.

And you still haven't answered the question of why you're so fixated on Blair.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 07:46     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the most obnoxious and offensive manner (surely, you get that, right?) what you are saying is that the teaching at Blair is the same at any W counterpart. Now that is stupidity at its zenith!! Look at the academic indicators and tell me how ypu justify your belief.


Look at the demographic differences between Blair and Whitman, and then tell me how you justify your belief that the teaching at Blair must be worse.

(I sure hope that the justification won't be, "Well, OBVIOUSLY any good teacher would rather teach at Whitman than Blair.)

And you haven't answered the question of why you're so fixated on Blair.


Get your chip off your shoulder.
1. No one made any assessment about teaching at Blair.
2. The demographic differences between Blair and Whitman prove nothing about teaching at either place.

The constant attacks that are hurled at anyone who dares to ask a question about Blair makes one wonder about the school. So, do Blair a favor and stop attacking people.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 06:43     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:In the most obnoxious and offensive manner (surely, you get that, right?) what you are saying is that the teaching at Blair is the same at any W counterpart. Now that is stupidity at its zenith!! Look at the academic indicators and tell me how ypu justify your belief.


Look at the demographic differences between Blair and Whitman, and then tell me how you justify your belief that the teaching at Blair must be worse.

(I sure hope that the justification won't be, "Well, OBVIOUSLY any good teacher would rather teach at Whitman than Blair.)

And you haven't answered the question of why you're so fixated on Blair.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 06:22     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: Just a simple question--------------is a Blair education good as that at any "W" school by any measure[/b]?


Well, it's an extremely stupid question, demonstrating extreme ignorance, but, yes, for the Blair kids who fit the same demographic profile as their W counterparts, and come to the table with the same external advantages, the outcome is the same. Surely you get that, right?


Definitely. A bad teacher (my older daughter had 2 at Blair, both in math) is less disastrous to a kid from a middle or high SES family. We paid for tutors and emailed the teacher, department head, and administrators weekly until instruction improved (case #1) or a transfer to another teacher came through (case #2).


In the most obnoxious and offensive manner (surely, you get that, right?) what you are saying is that the teaching at Blair is the same at any W counterpart. Now that is stupidity at its zenith!! Look at the academic indicators and tell me how ypu justify your belief.