Anonymous
03/28/2014 01:31
Subject: What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:$$$ this lottery would amount to a new tax, inequitably appliedAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That the loss of proximate access will result in significant financial stress for parents who now have to arrange transport to distant schools and lose having an older sibling close by so have to pay for aftercare. And that the overcrowding is artificially created in the first case.
Great. What's your
cause of action?
Only if you regard your IB status at a school as a property right. However, the law doesn't see it that way.
Whoever is writing this doesn't seem to understand that an alleged violation of equal protection is enough to get a case through the court's door, as long as some evidence of harm can be shown in the pleadings. S/he seems to think the case would be analogous to a garden-variety zoning case, when it's not, it's about application of education policy.
Um. Hmmm.
Are you aware that there are families in several other areas of the city with subpar DCPS options for middle and high school?
Is it your opinion that those families are receiving an equitable application of education policy? Do you feel that the DC government should value a family that rents an apartment near Mann over a family that pays property taxes on a house near Powell or Maury or--heck, even Cleveland or Tubman where one can't find a house under $900K?
Is it really the belief of most Ward 3 parents that everyone EOTP is poor, AA and low performing?
Is it really the belief of most Ward 3 parents that every student EOTP who is poor, AA and low performing is undeserving of a quality education or simply should not get one if it interferes in any way with the residents WOTP? (As determined by residents WOTP)
My real curiosity is about how you identify and treat AA families from high income, high standard households who live WOTP. (The ones that haven't gone private). Do they also get the "we're not racists, we just value our children" spiel when you attempt to omit them from your lawsuit keychain parties?
Anonymous
03/28/2014 01:30
Subject: What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:$$$ this lottery would amount to a new tax, inequitably appliedAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That the loss of proximate access will result in significant financial stress for parents who now have to arrange transport to distant schools and lose having an older sibling close by so have to pay for aftercare. And that the overcrowding is artificially created in the first case.
Great. What's your
cause of action?
Only if you regard your IB status at a school as a property right. However, the law doesn't see it that way.
Whoever is writing this doesn't seem to understand that an alleged violation of equal protection is enough to get a case through the court's door, as long as some evidence of harm can be shown in the pleadings. S/he seems to think the case would be analogous to a garden-variety zoning case, when it's not, it's about application of education policy.
That's just not right. To sustain an EP claim here, you would have to allege much more than "some evidence" of harm. You would have to allege that blacks were so disproportionately impacted that the new policy was effectively meant to target them. In other words, you would have to show a radical shift. If Wilson were to become 80-90 percent white, then your claim may survive a MTD.
Not to mention that I assume you would want a preliminary injunction, which means you'd also have to show a high likelihood of success.
Given that DC will come armed with a host of non-race based reasons for its decision (it only takes one and they win), good luck.
Anonymous
03/28/2014 01:14
Subject: What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am not attorney. I am a middle income parent IB for Janney/Deal/Wilson:
1. A quick review through Google shows that there's a multitude of lawsuits cases associated to school boundary changes from "both parts of the barricade". So I am sure a judge will want to listen to a well-constructed case by IB families.
2. There's huge number of middle income families living in the very large and tall condo buildings on Mass Avenue just south of Ward Circle, or on Cathedral between Wisconsin and New Mexico. Talking about no-frill condos, so all families have chosen the location to have access to the FAB-3 DCPS (Janney/Deal/Wisconsin)
3. These groups are already well-organized within the same building, kids share the common spaces and there's a strong sense of community .
4. I moved out from Mass Ave 4000 two years ago and still have a ton of friends over there and I can assure you that it will take nothing to start the sparkle in these communities, and raise the numbers and money needed for a strong lawsuit.
5. End of the story. DCPS and their grad-student technical advisors should be kicked out of boundary from DC as they are the sole responsible entities of this mess, of this situation of community against community, for having turned a successful story into an issue which will generate more and more hatre and anguish in parents.
Sure, there are lawsuits over school redistricting, but the only ones that get anywhere are those that contend that the district is resegregating schools, as there is clear legal precedent for those. If you are just going to argue that you have the right to attend a particular school, you will get nowhere, as such rights don't exist.
I suppose you can file a lawsuit, but I know some of the people in those buildings. I can't imagine their throwing any money at this without some assurance that the case wouldn't be tossed out. You can't provide those assurances.
I know people with kids on those buildings who are lawyers, one is faculty at AU law school. Lets see their views first,
All the more reason why they would be unwilling to fork over a retainer; they'll understand the case is hopeless
Anonymous
03/28/2014 01:12
Subject: What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:Just why are they reviewing the boundaries, again? Is it because someone over there at DCPS is a masochist?
School closures have left quite a few residences without a clear inbounds school. Many homes now have two or three elementary schools for whichntyjhey are "zoned". One of the purposes of the boundary changes is to rectfy that.
Anonymous
03/28/2014 00:35
Subject: What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:Just why are they reviewing the boundaries, again? Is it because someone over there at DCPS is a masochist?
This is a very good question. There are 129 schools in DCPS and less than a dozen where boundaries come into play. All of the remainder accept every student who wants to attend. Of the schools where boundaries come into play, less than half are full with in-boundary kids. Many of those families would gladly go somewhere else if the quality of the school was the same.
If there were more desirable options boundaries wouldn't be an issue.
Anonymous
03/28/2014 00:32
Subject: Re:What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:
There are two types of lawsuits that I can imagine:
1) If DC govt decides to end all OOB feeder rights to the WOTP schools, in order to solve the crowding problem, the practical result might be de facto segregation. Deal/Wilson, and to a lesser extent Hardy, will be very white, while the schools EOTP will be very black. I could see some (black) EOTP parents trying for a civil rights/desegregation case. Request a desegregation order, demand that students be put on buses or demand to keep the OOB feeders etc.
Look at the OOB percentage of Deal and Wilson, their racial makeups and their capacity. Ending OOB feeder rights would shrink Wilson by about 10% and Deal not at all. There would still be lots of OOB kids at both schools, they would just be different OOB kids than the ones who come in through feeders. You could argue they might be more diverse than the kids there today. Both schools are very diverse and would remain so even if feeder rights were eliminated. Reducing crowding is a compelling state interest and the impact would be negligible.
Anonymous
03/27/2014 23:42
Subject: What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Just why are they reviewing the boundaries, again? Is it because someone over there at DCPS is a masochist?
Anonymous
03/27/2014 23:29
Subject: What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Good idea, drain the budget of DCPS even more on things not related to education.
Anonymous
03/27/2014 23:25
Subject: What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am not attorney. I am a middle income parent IB for Janney/Deal/Wilson:
1. A quick review through Google shows that there's a multitude of lawsuits cases associated to school boundary changes from "both parts of the barricade". So I am sure a judge will want to listen to a well-constructed case by IB families.
2. There's huge number of middle income families living in the very large and tall condo buildings on Mass Avenue just south of Ward Circle, or on Cathedral between Wisconsin and New Mexico. Talking about no-frill condos, so all families have chosen the location to have access to the FAB-3 DCPS (Janney/Deal/Wisconsin)
3. These groups are already well-organized within the same building, kids share the common spaces and there's a strong sense of community .
4. I moved out from Mass Ave 4000 two years ago and still have a ton of friends over there and I can assure you that it will take nothing to start the sparkle in these communities, and raise the numbers and money needed for a strong lawsuit.
5. End of the story. DCPS and their grad-student technical advisors should be kicked out of boundary from DC as they are the sole responsible entities of this mess, of this situation of community against community, for having turned a successful story into an issue which will generate more and more hatre and anguish in parents.
Sure, there are lawsuits over school redistricting, but the only ones that get anywhere are those that contend that the district is resegregating schools, as there is clear legal precedent for those. If you are just going to argue that you have the right to attend a particular school, you will get nowhere, as such rights don't exist.
I suppose you can file a lawsuit, but I know some of the people in those buildings. I can't imagine their throwing any money at this without some assurance that the case wouldn't be tossed out. You can't provide those assurances.
I know people with kids on those buildings who are lawyers, one is faculty at AU law school. Lets see their views first,
Anonymous
03/27/2014 23:21
Subject: What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:$$$ this lottery would amount to a new tax, inequitably appliedAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That the loss of proximate access will result in significant financial stress for parents who now have to arrange transport to distant schools and lose having an older sibling close by so have to pay for aftercare. And that the overcrowding is artificially created in the first case.
Great. What's your
cause of action?
Only if you regard your IB status at a school as a property right. However, the law doesn't see it that way.
Whoever is writing this doesn't seem to understand that an alleged violation of equal protection is enough to get a case through the court's door, as long as some evidence of harm can be shown in the pleadings. S/he seems to think the case would be analogous to a garden-variety zoning case, when it's not, it's about application of education policy.
Anonymous
03/27/2014 23:15
Subject: What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:$$$ this lottery would amount to a new tax, inequitably appliedAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That the loss of proximate access will result in significant financial stress for parents who now have to arrange transport to distant schools and lose having an older sibling close by so have to pay for aftercare. And that the overcrowding is artificially created in the first case.
Great. What's your
cause of action?
Only if you regard your IB status at a school as a property right. However, the law doesn't see it that way.
Anonymous
03/27/2014 23:13
Subject: What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:I am not attorney. I am a middle income parent IB for Janney/Deal/Wilson:
1. A quick review through Google shows that there's a multitude of lawsuits cases associated to school boundary changes from "both parts of the barricade". So I am sure a judge will want to listen to a well-constructed case by IB families.
2. There's huge number of middle income families living in the very large and tall condo buildings on Mass Avenue just south of Ward Circle, or on Cathedral between Wisconsin and New Mexico. Talking about no-frill condos, so all families have chosen the location to have access to the FAB-3 DCPS (Janney/Deal/Wisconsin)
3. These groups are already well-organized within the same building, kids share the common spaces and there's a strong sense of community .
4. I moved out from Mass Ave 4000 two years ago and still have a ton of friends over there and I can assure you that it will take nothing to start the sparkle in these communities, and raise the numbers and money needed for a strong lawsuit.
5. End of the story. DCPS and their grad-student technical advisors should be kicked out of boundary from DC as they are the sole responsible entities of this mess, of this situation of community against community, for having turned a successful story into an issue which will generate more and more hatre and anguish in parents.
Sure, there are lawsuits over school redistricting, but the only ones that get anywhere are those that contend that the district is resegregating schools, as there is clear legal precedent for those. If you are just going to argue that you have the right to attend a particular school, you will get nowhere, as such rights don't exist.
I suppose you can file a lawsuit, but I know some of the people in those buildings. I can't imagine their throwing any money at this without some assurance that the case wouldn't be tossed out. You can't provide those assurances.
Anonymous
03/27/2014 21:10
Subject: What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Claiming compensation for private school tuiton, DCPS City-Wide HS Lottery eliminating my guaranteed access to HS with acceptable academic standards .
Great. What is your cause of action?
Eh. Case:
http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/edu/documents/grahammotion.pdf
Darn.. 3rd year law students hired by 21 Century Fund had not found this!!
DOJ website of treasure with cases :
http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/edu/
The law:
http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml;jsessionid=A4CB828D5294F938DA70F7DC1BC15273?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prelim-title20-chapter39-subchapter1&saved=|Z3JhbnVsZWlkOlVTQy1wcmVsaW0tdGl0bGUyMC1zZWN0aW9uMTcxNA%3D%3D|||0|false|prelim&edition=prelim
see 1703.
Anonymous
03/27/2014 20:57
Subject: Re:What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. It has always seemed to me AA families EOTP always had a potential case, but people getting moved out of the crowded white schools to other DCPS with space? No way. You are just a bunch of idiots.
There are two types of lawsuits that I can imagine:
1) If DC govt decides to end all OOB feeder rights to the WOTP schools, in order to solve the crowding problem, the practical result might be de facto segregation. Deal/Wilson, and to a lesser extent Hardy, will be very white, while the schools EOTP will be very black. I could see some (black) EOTP parents trying for a civil rights/desegregation case. Request a desegregation order, demand that students be put on buses or demand to keep the OOB feeders etc.
2) If DC decides to make WOTP MS/HS lottery with no proximity preference, or does something else to upset WOTP parents, the WOTP parents could hire lawyers steeped in DC admin and Federal review and try to find every procedural flaw that they can. This could delay the process and create time for a political campaign, but not stop the process.
I am not sure what the chances are for (1). I'm a lawyer but I don't have experience with those types of cases. Maybe someone else can comment.
Regarding (2), maybe you could succeed in making life difficult for DC for a while, but only for a while, and you are spending your own money while DC spends your tax dollars defending your suit. I think more likely than (2), if WOTP parents or high-SES parents in general feel aggrieved, maybe they could take it to Congress. DC doesn't have any votes but maybe there are some reps who are willing to make an issue out of it. Maybe you could convince Republicans that DC will become even more Democrat if bad school policy results in white flight from the city. If DC was worried that Congress might interfere (this has rarely been done), then DC might water down the proposal...
But as others have said, there is no constitutional right to neighborhood schools. Even if many of us see neighborhood schools as fundamental to the fabric of society in the US. I certainly do.
This was very helpful, thanks PP.
This is funny. "DC will become even more Democrat" "Convince Republicans".
DC is about as Democrat as it gets and Republicans have given THAT up since well... forever.
Of course you are right with your first statement, but as for your second, let's see. DC is becoming richer and whiter every year, and as a consequence the Republican vote must be growing steadily. Sure, the city is still very democrat, but if the current demographic trends continue we may see a consistent "independent" candidate for mayor ("independent" like Bloomberg in NYC), and maybe even a winner. This year is the first year that we'll have had a contested general for mayor since home rule, right? A sign of the times. Some DC residents refer to this as "The Plan", and while in reality it is not planned, it is certainly happening.
Kinda prophetic. Dems are pulling hard for Catania. He's "that" indie candidate.
Yeah, Catania is a white former Republican running as an independent and drawing support from across the spectrum, like Bloomberg. The comparison probably ends there!
Anonymous
03/27/2014 19:37
Subject: Re:What would a lawsuit over redistricting/school assignment look like?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. It has always seemed to me AA families EOTP always had a potential case, but people getting moved out of the crowded white schools to other DCPS with space? No way. You are just a bunch of idiots.
There are two types of lawsuits that I can imagine:
1) If DC govt decides to end all OOB feeder rights to the WOTP schools, in order to solve the crowding problem, the practical result might be de facto segregation. Deal/Wilson, and to a lesser extent Hardy, will be very white, while the schools EOTP will be very black. I could see some (black) EOTP parents trying for a civil rights/desegregation case. Request a desegregation order, demand that students be put on buses or demand to keep the OOB feeders etc.
2) If DC decides to make WOTP MS/HS lottery with no proximity preference, or does something else to upset WOTP parents, the WOTP parents could hire lawyers steeped in DC admin and Federal review and try to find every procedural flaw that they can. This could delay the process and create time for a political campaign, but not stop the process.
I am not sure what the chances are for (1). I'm a lawyer but I don't have experience with those types of cases. Maybe someone else can comment.
Regarding (2), maybe you could succeed in making life difficult for DC for a while, but only for a while, and you are spending your own money while DC spends your tax dollars defending your suit. I think more likely than (2), if WOTP parents or high-SES parents in general feel aggrieved, maybe they could take it to Congress. DC doesn't have any votes but maybe there are some reps who are willing to make an issue out of it. Maybe you could convince Republicans that DC will become even more Democrat if bad school policy results in white flight from the city. If DC was worried that Congress might interfere (this has rarely been done), then DC might water down the proposal...
But as others have said, there is no constitutional right to neighborhood schools. Even if many of us see neighborhood schools as fundamental to the fabric of society in the US. I certainly do.
This was very helpful, thanks PP.
This is funny. "DC will become even more Democrat" "Convince Republicans".
DC is about as Democrat as it gets and Republicans have given THAT up since well... forever.
Of course you are right with your first statement, but as for your second, let's see. DC is becoming richer and whiter every year, and as a consequence the Republican vote must be growing steadily. Sure, the city is still very democrat, but if the current demographic trends continue we may see a consistent "independent" candidate for mayor ("independent" like Bloomberg in NYC), and maybe even a winner. This year is the first year that we'll have had a contested general for mayor since home rule, right? A sign of the times. Some DC residents refer to this as "The Plan", and while in reality it is not planned, it is certainly happening.
Kinda prophetic. Dems are pulling hard for Catania. He's "that" indie candidate.