Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 16:26     Subject: FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
Anonymous wrote:

How do you propose that a public school system individualize curriculum for thousands of students.
Go-ahead, I'm waiting.


See, it's this kind of thinking that leads us to the conclusion that we need to throw up our hands and take the easy route.

I don't think it is feasible or desirable to a public school system to individualize curriculum for thousands of students. Besides, we aren't talking about curriculum, we're talking about benchmarks and how progress is measured to determine whether or not our public school system is educating our kids in an effective and useful way.

I think that teachers who are effective and given the flexibility in their classrooms already individualize their instruction according to their students' personal learning styles.

I don't think the curriculum needs to be individualized, but it does need to be focused on giving our kids the tools they will need to be successful. Reading, writing, math are all important to be sure. But so our critical thinking, communication, soft skills, and leadership. What does Common Core do to advance any of these?

You just said absolutely nothing. And understanding that a public education system cannot individualize education is not throwing your hands up and doing nothing -- it is having common sense.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 16:17     Subject: FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

How do you propose that a public school system individualize curriculum for thousands of students.
Go-ahead, I'm waiting.


See, it's this kind of thinking that leads us to the conclusion that we need to throw up our hands and take the easy route.

I don't think it is feasible or desirable to a public school system to individualize curriculum for thousands of students. Besides, we aren't talking about curriculum, we're talking about benchmarks and how progress is measured to determine whether or not our public school system is educating our kids in an effective and useful way.

I think that teachers who are effective and given the flexibility in their classrooms already individualize their instruction according to their students' personal learning styles.

I don't think the curriculum needs to be individualized, but it does need to be focused on giving our kids the tools they will need to be successful. Reading, writing, math are all important to be sure. But so our critical thinking, communication, soft skills, and leadership. What does Common Core do to advance any of these?


omg - Why can't people go to the site and read up on CC standards? Or at least view a framework and the philosophy behind it.

There are speaking and listening standards, which relate to communication (no shocker there) and critical thinking.

Leadership? huh? speechless - I don't even know where to begin, as this is such an odd comment. Leadership is not a standard. But by focusing on speaking and listening and by increasing rigor through critical thinking, you are giving students opportunities to develop leadership skills.

Soft skills? They stem from communication and expression. nothing hidden there!


Would someone please recommend a site for reading up on Common Core standards.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 16:15     Subject: FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
Anonymous wrote:

How do you propose that a public school system individualize curriculum for thousands of students.
Go-ahead, I'm waiting.


See, it's this kind of thinking that leads us to the conclusion that we need to throw up our hands and take the easy route.

I don't think it is feasible or desirable to a public school system to individualize curriculum for thousands of students. Besides, we aren't talking about curriculum, we're talking about benchmarks and how progress is measured to determine whether or not our public school system is educating our kids in an effective and useful way.

I think that teachers who are effective and given the flexibility in their classrooms already individualize their instruction according to their students' personal learning styles.

I don't think the curriculum needs to be individualized, but it does need to be focused on giving our kids the tools they will need to be successful. Reading, writing, math are all important to be sure. But so our critical thinking, communication, soft skills, and leadership. What does Common Core do to advance any of these?


omg - Why can't people go to the site and read up on CC standards? Or at least view a framework and the philosophy behind it.

There are speaking and listening standards, which relate to communication (no shocker there) and critical thinking.

Leadership? huh? speechless - I don't even know where to begin, as this is such an odd comment. Leadership is not a standard. But by focusing on speaking and listening and by increasing rigor through critical thinking, you are giving students opportunities to develop leadership skills.

Soft skills? They stem from communication and expression. nothing hidden there!
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 15:32     Subject: FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards

How do you propose that a public school system individualize curriculum for thousands of students.
Go-ahead, I'm waiting.


See, it's this kind of thinking that leads us to the conclusion that we need to throw up our hands and take the easy route.

I don't think it is feasible or desirable to a public school system to individualize curriculum for thousands of students. Besides, we aren't talking about curriculum, we're talking about benchmarks and how progress is measured to determine whether or not our public school system is educating our kids in an effective and useful way.

I think that teachers who are effective and given the flexibility in their classrooms already individualize their instruction according to their students' personal learning styles.

I don't think the curriculum needs to be individualized, but it does need to be focused on giving our kids the tools they will need to be successful. Reading, writing, math are all important to be sure. But so our critical thinking, communication, soft skills, and leadership. What does Common Core do to advance any of these?
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 15:08     Subject: FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
Has NCLB improved anything?
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 14:59     Subject: Re:FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
When people have to resort to name calling and personal attacks, they are losing the argument.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 14:58     Subject: Re:FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
Anonymous wrote:I dunno. I learned to subtract numbers the "normal way" and really, just knowing how to subtract 137 - 93 has served me just fine.


Nobody is saying not to teach children to subtract numbers the "normal way". Children are being taught to subtract numbers the "normal way". They are ALSO being taught number sense.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 14:53     Subject: Re:FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Wow - if that problem on the top of the paper is comon core - we are all in trouble - what the hell is that?


The concept of the question doesn't bother me. It's trying to get the kid to understand that subtracting 316 is the same as subtracting 300, then 10 and then 6. It's trying to teach number sense. Kids can learn to grind through algorithms w/o really understanding what they're doing. This problem clearly shows that the kid forgot to subtract at the 10s place. Doesn't surprise me that an engineer is complaining; all they want is their formulas to crunch.


yes - agree 100%

How many of us simply learned "how to" without understanding the process behind it?

It's really pathetic to read about "educated" parents with no number sense.

And yes, they are STANDARDS. The standards are then turned into instructional frameworks. The frameworks are umbrellas for the curriculum guides, which vary from state to state and from county to county.

20:09, you're an idiot.


I dunno. I learned to subtract numbers the "normal way" and really, just knowing how to subtract 137 - 93 has served me just fine.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 14:50     Subject: FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
Anonymous wrote:I'm a lifelong democrat but this business of national standards, NCLB, and the DOE has got to go. Teachers have no autonomy and it seems they themselves don't believe in what they are teaching. It's like they are puppets for a system nobody likes. I often wonder why no one is standing up against this nonsense, myself included.


How has that mishmash of state and local control and funding of education been working out for the US?
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 14:49     Subject: FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
Anonymous wrote:You are comparing a broken website and a nationwide curriculum designed to education our children... if it eventually gets fixed, it's okay! I cannot disagree more with you. With health insurance, once a person is covered, you can go back and resolve claims, etc. But there is no "going back" in education. Do it right the first time.



But we're already not doing it right. So the question is not whether there are implementation problems (yes, there are), but rather whether the implementation problems are making things worse than they were before.

And yes, in an ideal world, all improvements would be implemented perfectly right from the start. But we're not in an ideal world.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 14:43     Subject: FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
I'm a lifelong democrat but this business of national standards, NCLB, and the DOE has got to go. Teachers have no autonomy and it seems they themselves don't believe in what they are teaching. It's like they are puppets for a system nobody likes. I often wonder why no one is standing up against this nonsense, myself included.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 14:21     Subject: FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, the teachers in NY are up in arms about the tests and worksheets, because the curriculum has been hastily implemented without proper training for the teachers and administrators. The ENTIRE PROBLEM with Common Core is that it has been implemented extremely poorly - particularly for the older grades who are suddenly having to learn everything in a new way. I was a huge proponent of Common Core until implementation has started. Now it's a fucking mess like Healthcare.Gov. This is what happens when policy wonks and for-profit companies try to do that which is best left to teachers and EdD's.


Actually, Healthcare.gov is apparently working quite well now. I expect that the implementation problems with the Common Core will be ironed out too. It's unrealistic to expect that something new will work perfectly for everybody everywhere right off the bat.


You are comparing a broken website and a nationwide curriculum designed to education our children... if it eventually gets fixed, it's okay! I cannot disagree more with you. With health insurance, once a person is covered, you can go back and resolve claims, etc. But there is no "going back" in education. Do it right the first time.

Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 14:21     Subject: FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
It is a number line. Though I agree it's not a good number line. In fact I don't find it a particularly good worksheet -- but not because I think children should just learn the standard algorithm, as Mr. Engineer seems to think.

And actually people assign arbitrary values for equally spaced increments all the time -- for example, maps not drawn to scale. The bar models in the Singapore Math books aren't drawn to scale either.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 13:57     Subject: FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Indiana. LOL. This problem is idiotic. Who of us who learned the traditional way, rote algorithms to do calculations quickly and efficiently, do NOT understand that when you subtract you are subtracting hundreds and tens and ones. Who needs to be hit over the head with a hammer with those concepts? I never had a problem not knowing this and this approach in the worksheet is totally confusing and making something easy much more difficult.


Lots, actually. Just ask the PP's physicsist father-in-law. Or you -- a number line is not conceptually complicated, and you shouldn't be confused by it.

More to the point: THERE IS NO COMMON CORE STANDARD THAT SAYS "CHILDREN WILL NOT LEARN THE ROTE ALGORITHM". In fact, you cannot meet the Common Core standards unless you ALSO know the rote algorithm.



The thing shown in the problem is not a number line. I am confused by what is shown. Addition and subtraction are linear operations and I wouldn't want my kid learning from this type of problem that you can assign arbitrary values for equally spaced increments on a line. This is a ridiculous problem. If you want to teach true proficiency you teach in a number of different ways and drill to develop proficiency. This is overthinking and it's a waste of time.
Anonymous
Post 03/27/2014 13:53     Subject: FYI: Indiana withdrawing from Common Core standards
Anonymous wrote:Well, the teachers in NY are up in arms about the tests and worksheets, because the curriculum has been hastily implemented without proper training for the teachers and administrators. The ENTIRE PROBLEM with Common Core is that it has been implemented extremely poorly - particularly for the older grades who are suddenly having to learn everything in a new way. I was a huge proponent of Common Core until implementation has started. Now it's a fucking mess like Healthcare.Gov. This is what happens when policy wonks and for-profit companies try to do that which is best left to teachers and EdD's.


Actually, Healthcare.gov is apparently working quite well now. I expect that the implementation problems with the Common Core will be ironed out too. It's unrealistic to expect that something new will work perfectly for everybody everywhere right off the bat.