Anonymous
Post 03/25/2014 11:52     Subject: Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
Anonymous wrote:Okay, I'm from Baltimore where we can only dream of these problems -- I have no dog in this fight but I really want to know.

What exactly is the problem with having these centers housed with Gen Ed programs? Are the AAP kids mean to the GE kids? Is it just a discipline problem that should be solved?

I can understand the point of wanting a certain critical mass of gifted students together... and I really can't understand how this harms other students.

#FunctionalSchoolSystemProblems


The problem is this: in a center school, AAP-identified kids are bussed from several feeder schools, creating a very large AAP population which often dwarfs the General Ed. population. Increasingly, as the size of AAP continues to grow, it gives a (false) impression to the GE kids that they are somehow "less than" since most of their peers (at the center school) are in the advanced program. For instance, at one center, there are four AAP classes vs. 2 GE classes in the 4th grade alone. Kids ask their parents why they aren't "smart enough" to be in those classes, when the reality is most of them are equally smart and certainly very bright. It makes kids believe that being in the regular (for lack of a better word) class is somehow not good enough. Now, in past years, when the program was only for the actually gifted (GT), this wasn't a problem as the group of GT students was naturally far smaller and everyone understood those kids were receiving a type of special education that they couldn't get in a regular classroom, in addition to having the critical mass you mentioned. Nowadays, however... well it seems everyone believes their child is gifted and in need of a special program, not to mention a special school. And so FCPS has accomodated those families by bending over backwards to make sure those identified as AAP are able to choose whether they want to stay at their base school, or be bussed to the center school. And GE kids are not given any choice at all; that is, to remain at the center or be bussed to a different, non-center school. So FCPS is handling this situation in a very lopsided fashion, though AAP parents continue to insist all is fair because their kids, of course, are the ones who benefit. As you will see from the self-righteous comments that are sure to follow.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2014 11:22     Subject: Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
Anonymous wrote:The concern is that all of the resources of the school will go to the aap children. The funny thing is that with NCLB, the schools are judged by the number passing, not the average score.


But what does that actually look like? Bigger Gen Ed classes? Old books? No access to science labs?

Does any extra money travel with the center designation?
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2014 10:40     Subject: Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
The concern is that all of the resources of the school will go to the aap children. The funny thing is that with NCLB, the schools are judged by the number passing, not the average score.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2014 09:18     Subject: Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
Okay, I'm from Baltimore where we can only dream of these problems -- I have no dog in this fight but I really want to know.

What exactly is the problem with having these centers housed with Gen Ed programs? Are the AAP kids mean to the GE kids? Is it just a discipline problem that should be solved?

I can understand the point of wanting a certain critical mass of gifted students together... and I really can't understand how this harms other students.

#FunctionalSchoolSystemProblems
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2014 08:44     Subject: Re:Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is no point to arguining logically with the unhinged anti-AAP posters. They ignore all the facts and responses given and keep posting bitter, emotional rants.


Again, I have yet to hear one actual answer to the question: why are kids bused to centers when they are already provided LLIV at their base schools? Still waiting.


LLIV is relatively new and not consistently administered. I think it makes sense in several schools that feed the Haycock and Churchill Road Centers to eliminate bussing to them as their LLIV programs are robust, large and experienced. However, other LLIV are too new and/or too small.


Include Colvin Run in the list of centers to which busing should be eliminated. All of Colvin Run's feeder schools have huge LLIV populations. There is no need for them to be bused to and from Colvin Run.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2014 07:44     Subject: Re:Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is no point to arguining logically with the unhinged anti-AAP posters. They ignore all the facts and responses given and keep posting bitter, emotional rants.


Again, I have yet to hear one actual answer to the question: why are kids bused to centers when they are already provided LLIV at their base schools? Still waiting.


Asked (in multiple threads) and answered (in multiple threads).


There have been no answers, only rationalizations. I, too, would like to hear this "answer" - particulary in regards to schools with large LLIV populations (all of Cluster 1, for example). Why are these kids given the option at all to be bussed to a center?


Ok here is the answer: FCPS has decided to bus students to AAP centers. That is why students are bused.

If you want to know why FCPS decided to do this, it is probably more complicated. First and foremost, not busing kids would mean that only those whose parent's schedule facilitated driving to school could utilize the service. That would strongly bias the program to higher SES, where people tend to have more flexibility. It would also significantly increase traffic around center schools. (try driving down Nutley Street when Louise Archer is dismissed). These are things the county does not want to happen.

Anonymous
Post 03/25/2014 07:20     Subject: Re:Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is no point to arguining logically with the unhinged anti-AAP posters. They ignore all the facts and responses given and keep posting bitter, emotional rants.


Again, I have yet to hear one actual answer to the question: why are kids bused to centers when they are already provided LLIV at their base schools? Still waiting.


Asked (in multiple threads) and answered (in multiple threads).


There have been no answers, only rationalizations. I, too, would like to hear this "answer" - particulary in regards to schools with large LLIV populations (all of Cluster 1, for example). Why are these kids given the option at all to be bussed to a center?


Here's your answer from the Frequently Asked Questions document on the FCPS website:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/faqs/esfaqs.shtml

What are Local Level IV Services?
Local Level IV Services provide an important option for advanced learners who need the challenge of a full-time AAP center curriculum and do not want to leave their local school. They also provide another avenue of access for advanced academic services to students who may need to practice and strengthen their basic skills but have the capacity to think, reason, and problem solve at advanced levels.

How does Local Level IV differ from the Full-time AAP Center?
The teachers in both settings are trained in gifted education and teach the same advanced academic curriculum to students who are ready for a highly challenging instructional program in the four core subject areas. The main difference is in the make-up of the class. All of the students in a full-time AAP center-based class have been identified as center-eligible by a central selection committee and will be coming from several neighborhood schools to comprise the center class. In a Local Level IV classroom, the students are a mix of students who are center-eligible and high achieving students who are capable of working at advanced levels, all enrolled in their local school.

Many schools that offer Local Level IV services add students to the Level IV class in areas of academic strength through flexible grouping. This is an important avenue of access for students who have traditionally been underrepresented in advanced academic programs.

Will Local Level IV Services replace the existing full-time AAP center programs?
No, Local Level IV Services are not an attempt to close the existing full-time AAP centers; they are designed to provide access to the advanced academic level IV curriculum to more students. Families of eligible students have a choice about which option best meets their student's academic and social-emotional needs while access to curriculum and teachers trained in working with advanced learners is expanded to reach more students who are ready in areas of academic strength.

How is it determined which schools will provide Local Level IV Services?
Elementary schools that are interested in providing this level of service with strong community support submit a proposal to their Cluster Assistant Superintendent. The proposal is reviewed, discussed, and then forwarded to the Assistant Superintendent for Instruction and the Advanced Academic Programs office. The proposal includes a rationale for providing Local Level IV Services, an implementation timeline, professional development plans for teachers, and staff and community input.

Which elementary schools offer Local Level IV Services?
Local Level IV service locations
http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/centers/leveliv.shtml

If my local school offers Local Level IV Services, what are my choices and how do I indicate my decision?
Parent/guardians of students at schools that offer Local Level IV Services have two choices if they wish their level IV- eligible child to participate in the full-time AAP (level IV) curriculum. The eligibility letter mailed to parent/guardians includes a Permission Form. Parent/guardians may elect to keep the child at the local school and receive Level IV Services OR request that the child be placed in the full-time AAP (level IV) center based on your FCPS street address.

If my local school does NOT offer Local Level IV Services, what are my choices and how do I indicate my decision?
Parent/guardians of students found eligible for full-time AAP (level IV) center placement are assigned to a full-time AAP (level IV) center based on their address. The eligibility letter mailed to parent/guardians includes a Permission Form. If your local school does not offer Local Level IV services and you choose not to send your child to the available full-time AAP (level IV) center, your child may participate in the school-based (level III) program at your local school.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2014 06:47     Subject: Re:Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is no point to arguining logically with the unhinged anti-AAP posters. They ignore all the facts and responses given and keep posting bitter, emotional rants.


Again, I have yet to hear one actual answer to the question: why are kids bused to centers when they are already provided LLIV at their base schools? Still waiting.


LLIV is relatively new and not consistently administered. I think it makes sense in several schools that feed the Haycock and Churchill Road Centers to eliminate bussing to them as their LLIV programs are robust, large and experienced. However, other LLIV are too new and/or too small.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2014 06:34     Subject: Re:Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is no point to arguining logically with the unhinged anti-AAP posters. They ignore all the facts and responses given and keep posting bitter, emotional rants.


Again, I have yet to hear one actual answer to the question: why are kids bused to centers when they are already provided LLIV at their base schools? Still waiting.


Asked (in multiple threads) and answered (in multiple threads).


There have been no answers, only rationalizations. I, too, would like to hear this "answer" - particulary in regards to schools with large LLIV populations (all of Cluster 1, for example). Why are these kids given the option at all to be bussed to a center?
Anonymous
Post 03/24/2014 21:53     Subject: Re:Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is no point to arguining logically with the unhinged anti-AAP posters. They ignore all the facts and responses given and keep posting bitter, emotional rants.


Again, I have yet to hear one actual answer to the question: why are kids bused to centers when they are already provided LLIV at their base schools? Still waiting.


Asked (in multiple threads) and answered (in multiple threads).
Anonymous
Post 03/24/2014 21:22     Subject: Re:Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
Anonymous wrote:There is no point to arguining logically with the unhinged anti-AAP posters. They ignore all the facts and responses given and keep posting bitter, emotional rants.


Again, I have yet to hear one actual answer to the question: why are kids bused to centers when they are already provided LLIV at their base schools? Still waiting.
Anonymous
Post 03/24/2014 21:20     Subject: Re:Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think fcps should allow you to select gen ed if you don't want your kid in a center school. Unfortunately if it is based on social issues you have to stay under doctors care an apply for a waiver every year. Ridiculous in my opinion.


You can always chose general education instead of center placement. If the question is transferring schools, that is a different issue. Nominally, the AAP center provides similar academics for Gen Ed as the non-center school. In my area, Vienna, it probably is easy to get placement in Cunningham Park, but harder if not impossible to get placement in Vienna Elementary.


You're missing the PP's point. He/She is saying that a gen ed kid should be able to select out of getting gen ed in a school that also acts as a center. PP wants child to be able to attend another school that only serves gen ed kids. The only way this can happen is if the child has a doctor's note saying there is some type of psychological hardship attending the gen ed/center school, or if the family has a childcare issue and can only get childcare in the catchment area of the non-center school.


Yeah, well, good luck with that. I don't think Virginia recognizes the "hostile educational environment" cause of action for parents of GenEd kids who think their children should be allowed to attend out-of-boundary schools with no AAP students. I think the best you can hope for is that FCPS will expand the availability of LLIV at more schools, so that the AAP population comprises a smaller percentage of students at the existing centers.



What, you mean "not wanting to go to school with THOSE kind of people" isn't a legitimate educational need? Shocking!


Seriously. I mean, parents of AAP kids would never, ever, under any circumstances, complain that they don't want their kids in class with Gen Ed students. .


Right. Because wanting your kids to have an education that's paced appropriately for their abilities is exactly the same thing as not wanting your gen ed kids to be near AAP students because of... reasons.

Seriously. There's a clear educational reason for the centers. I can't think of a single justification for allowing gen ed students to transfer out except "my going to this school makes my parents feel insecure."

Not sure that's worth bussing for, really.


Care to explain what the "clear educational reason" is for centers when most AAP kids already have LLIV in their neighborhood schools? Absolutely none. I still haven't seen one logical, factual reason in answer to this question.
Anonymous
Post 03/24/2014 21:01     Subject: Re:Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
There is no point to arguining logically with the unhinged anti-AAP posters. They ignore all the facts and responses given and keep posting bitter, emotional rants.
Anonymous
Post 03/24/2014 20:36     Subject: Re:Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think fcps should allow you to select gen ed if you don't want your kid in a center school. Unfortunately if it is based on social issues you have to stay under doctors care an apply for a waiver every year. Ridiculous in my opinion.


You can always chose general education instead of center placement. If the question is transferring schools, that is a different issue. Nominally, the AAP center provides similar academics for Gen Ed as the non-center school. In my area, Vienna, it probably is easy to get placement in Cunningham Park, but harder if not impossible to get placement in Vienna Elementary.


You're missing the PP's point. He/She is saying that a gen ed kid should be able to select out of getting gen ed in a school that also acts as a center. PP wants child to be able to attend another school that only serves gen ed kids. The only way this can happen is if the child has a doctor's note saying there is some type of psychological hardship attending the gen ed/center school, or if the family has a childcare issue and can only get childcare in the catchment area of the non-center school.


Yeah, well, good luck with that. I don't think Virginia recognizes the "hostile educational environment" cause of action for parents of GenEd kids who think their children should be allowed to attend out-of-boundary schools with no AAP students. I think the best you can hope for is that FCPS will expand the availability of LLIV at more schools, so that the AAP population comprises a smaller percentage of students at the existing centers.



What, you mean "not wanting to go to school with THOSE kind of people" isn't a legitimate educational need? Shocking!


Seriously. I mean, parents of AAP kids would never, ever, under any circumstances, complain that they don't want their kids in class with Gen Ed students. .


Right. Because wanting your kids to have an education that's paced appropriately for their abilities is exactly the same thing as not wanting your gen ed kids to be near AAP students because of... reasons.

Seriously. There's a clear educational reason for the centers. I can't think of a single justification for allowing gen ed students to transfer out except "my going to this school makes my parents feel insecure."

Not sure that's worth bussing for, really.
Anonymous
Post 03/24/2014 20:19     Subject: Why can't I transfer my Gen Ed child out of the center?
I have 2 kids in the AAP at Hunters Woods. Honestly, as happy as I am with the school, I wouldn't want to have a kid in Gen Ed there.

It has nothing to do with the teachers (whom I don't know anyway) or the administration. But when there are 8 classes per grade, and 5 of them are AAP, something is off. Not to mention the general income disparity between the AAP classrooms and the non-AAP classrooms. This isn't a comment on who qualifies for AAP, but simply that the base school kids come from mainly apts and townhomes, and the AAP kids are bussed in from a different pyramid entirely, one where million dollar homes abound. It's just a very strange dynamic, and I can understand the OP's frustration.

Fortunately, in the case of HW, they are addressing that situation. This year's 3rd grade has 2 AAP classes and 3 Gen Ed, due to the creation of a new center. The grade is much more balanced and less crowded generally. This is what needs to be done county-wide-- smaller centers that do not dwarf the base school Gen Ed population. This would be a much better solution than bussing Gen Ed kids away to a different school.

I think this is what they were trying to do last year with the whole AAP restructuring. They just went about it in such an ill-thought-out manner that it was bound for failure. In the meantime, I'm happy that our base school is a non-center (and non LLIV) school for my third child who is not AAP. So, I hear your frustration, OP.