Anonymous wrote:OP, your friend may be suffering from depression. I struggled with infertility for almost eight years before I had a baby from donor eggs. I thought I was holding it together really well and nobody could tell what a complete mess I was, especially in the last few years. After I had the baby and the fog cleared, I was able to see that I had almost completely shut down emotionally (and a sort of physically too). I could feel myself starting to reconnect with life and enjoy people and things the way I used to be able to. Your friend may not realize that her behavior is changing. Depression can really change how you act, but the person with depression doesn't always realize how bad things have gotten. With hindsight I can see how much I had withdrawn from life, but at the time I was making what felt like such an effort to stay engaged and not let people know what I was going through or have it impact our friendships. Luckily, I have some great friends who stuck by me. I probably had some not so good friends who didn't, but I didn't have the emotional bandwidth to worry about that too much.

I think there is a lot of truth in this. Perhaps considering that might take away some of the sting of feeling pushed away, OP?

The gall of infertile women to cut themselves off from the joy in the life of others and then be ready to be all happy and friendly once you have a baby. That sort of behavior is incredibly toxic and egotistical.

Along with what the PP is saying, I found myself unable to enjoy life due to TTC and we decided to stop trying and just live life. Allowing oneself to mourn and move on and life fully is a beautiful thing.

OP, your friend may be suffering from depression. I struggled with infertility for almost eight years before I had a baby from donor eggs. I thought I was holding it together really well and nobody could tell what a complete mess I was, especially in the last few years. After I had the baby and the fog cleared, I was able to see that I had almost completely shut down emotionally (and a sort of physically too). I could feel myself starting to reconnect with life and enjoy people and things the way I used to be able to. Your friend may not realize that her behavior is changing. Depression can really change how you act, but the person with depression doesn't always realize how bad things have gotten. With hindsight I can see how much I had withdrawn from life, but at the time I was making what felt like such an effort to stay engaged and not let people know what I was going through or have it impact our friendships. Luckily, I have some great friends who stuck by me. I probably had some not so good friends who didn't, but I didn't have the emotional bandwidth to worry about that too much.

Anonymous wrote:If you've never been through it, you have NO IDEA how incredibly difficult and painful it is. Please, just give her time and space. And in the meantime, if you are a believer, please pray for her.

Signed - been there, done that.

I've been in her shoes and I still think it's an unacceptable way to treat a friend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

maril332 wrote:I'm on OP's side. Her friend does not have to act like she's the first person in the world to have issues in life. Ignoring good friends doesn't make it easier.

I have to agree. I have secondary infertility and missing out on my friends' new children is anathema to me. I choose to think of it as an opportunity to flex my maternal side and grow the love around me, even if it isn't in the way I had imagined. I understand the pain people go through, but it is hard for me to understand what is gained by isolating oneself and pushing away people who want to love and support you. I have found that talking frankly about our situation has helped immensely, and that far from being "insensitive," my friends have proven themselves to be amazingly sensitive, gracious, and supportive.

I'm sorry but secondary infertility is different from not being able to have any children at all. You really don't understand that?

I almost think it would be worse for the person with secondary infertility because they actually know what it's like to create life and be a parent. People with primary infertility are wallowing in self-imposed misery about a concept that is completely abstract to them. I feel worse for the person who actually knows what it's like, chooses to do it again, and can not.

"Wallowing in self-imposed misery"? You are truly, truly an asshole. Feel better or worse for whomever you want, but please - if you've never experienced primary infertility, try to refrain from insulting those have and minimizing their very real emotional pain.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

maril332 wrote:I'm on OP's side. Her friend does not have to act like she's the first person in the world to have issues in life. Ignoring good friends doesn't make it easier.

I have to agree. I have secondary infertility and missing out on my friends' new children is anathema to me. I choose to think of it as an opportunity to flex my maternal side and grow the love around me, even if it isn't in the way I had imagined. I understand the pain people go through, but it is hard for me to understand what is gained by isolating oneself and pushing away people who want to love and support you. I have found that talking frankly about our situation has helped immensely, and that far from being "insensitive," my friends have proven themselves to be amazingly sensitive, gracious, and supportive.

I'm sorry but secondary infertility is different from not being able to have any children at all. You really don't understand that?

I almost think it would be worse for the person with secondary infertility because they actually know what it's like to create life and be a parent. People with primary infertility are wallowing in self-imposed misery about a concept that is completely abstract to them. I feel worse for the person who actually knows what it's like, chooses to do it again, and can not.

I'm the secondary IF poster and while I appreciate your thoughts, I have to say that worse is sort of a useless concept when dealing with infertility. Every single couple I've met in Resolve has different issues and challenges and every story is heartbreaking. Regardless of whether it's primary or secondary, we are all struggling to come to terms with a future that may be wildly different than what we'd hoped for and envisioned. We are all faced with painful and nearly impossible choices. I admire each and every one of them for having the strength to come forward and share what they are going through with others. So I guess that's been my point all along. Shutting yourself away from friends and family is not going to help. You can't avoid every child and every pregnant person in the world. You have to find safe supportive places where you can share your feelings and what you are going through. If you can't do that with friends well, who can you do it with? And when you let yourself get to the place where you resent your friends or your family for having kids, that is a dark place. I've heard some stories like that, and it makes me sad. It's no way to live, no matter what you are going through.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

maril332 wrote:I'm on OP's side. Her friend does not have to act like she's the first person in the world to have issues in life. Ignoring good friends doesn't make it easier.

I have to agree. I have secondary infertility and missing out on my friends' new children is anathema to me. I choose to think of it as an opportunity to flex my maternal side and grow the love around me, even if it isn't in the way I had imagined. I understand the pain people go through, but it is hard for me to understand what is gained by isolating oneself and pushing away people who want to love and support you. I have found that talking frankly about our situation has helped immensely, and that far from being "insensitive," my friends have proven themselves to be amazingly sensitive, gracious, and supportive.

I'm sorry but secondary infertility is different from not being able to have any children at all. You really don't understand that?

I almost think it would be worse for the person with secondary infertility because they actually know what it's like to create life and be a parent. People with primary infertility are wallowing in self-imposed misery about a concept that is completely abstract to them. I feel worse for the person who actually knows what it's like, chooses to do it again, and can not.

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes for women going through IF you get the worse reactions from well meaning friends and family.
1. "Just stop trying and it will happen"
2. The generic "everything will be fine"
3. Pity
4. Pretending that the issue doesn't exist

All of these suck and are never helpful! Sometimes the only way to deal with the desperation and sadness is to pull away.

Give her time, even though you understand her pain you did have a child so you can't REALLY understand, get it?

Here's the thing though. You can't avoid the existence of other people's pregnancies and children. At least when it is a friend, you presumably know that they are good, fit parents. Infertility IS a special kind of pain. But it is not the only pain in the world.

When I was going through IVF, my RE, who is also into holistic medicine, recommended that I avoid children, baby showers, etc. OP, I would just back off for awhile. It will happen for her one day and things will work itself out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I decided to be childfree and pretty much distance myself from friends with kids. It is never the same afterward.

But why? I don't understand the logic that deciding to be childfree means you can't be friends with people who have kids. We have kids and have lots of childfree friends by choice. Can you explain this to me?

Because when you decide to live alternatively it is not always easy. Society is built around nuclear families and people with children. Childfree means embracing all the things that you can only do without children and letting go of any previous visions of yourself with kids. Most of the time this lifestyle is incompatible with friends with kids. Different interests, schedules, finances, and so on.

Anonymous wrote:She has had several unsuccessful IUIs and is now avoiding me and her other friends with children in a very obvious way. I have sympathy for her, I can understand why she might be sensitive right now. I don't know what to do, I don't think there's anything I could say that would help. Before the peanut gallery weighs in, it also could be that I'm a jerk, who knows. Any suggestions or wisdom for me?

Been through this. We both love kids and spent years TTC. Two things were especially devastating after a few years. 1. Period time 2. Kids - reminded us of what we were missing.

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes for women going through IF you get the worse reactions from well meaning friends and family.
1. "Just stop trying and it will happen"
2. The generic "everything will be fine"
3. Pity
4. Pretending that the issue doesn't exist

All of these suck and are never helpful! Sometimes the only way to deal with the desperation and sadness is to pull away.

Give her time, even though you understand her pain you did have a child so you can't REALLY understand, get it?

So if a person can't REALLY understand your situation, it means they can't be empathetic? This kind of rationale basically means that you can only be a true friend to people who've had the exact same experiences as you, otherwise you can't really understand them. The world just doesn't work that way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you've never been through it, you have NO IDEA how incredibly difficult and painful it is. Please, just give her time and space. And in the meantime, if you are a believer, please pray for her.

Signed - been there, done that.

Yeah, pray for her while she gives you her ass to kiss. The world doesn't revolve around her infertility.

Would you be so callous if your friend was dealing with a life-threatening illness? What if she suffered a death in her immediate family? Why are you making someone else's hardship about your needs?

Exactly. No one would dream of using the phrase "wallowing in poor me-dom" to describe someone in those situations. It's because deep down, people (mostly those who've never experienced it) don't believe infertility is a good enough reason to experience significant grief or depression. It isn't worthy of our compassion in the way that other tragedies are. Instead, infertiles are told to "buck up" and "deal with it".

Try experiencing secondary infertility and having the gall to even talk about it. You're basically told you're an ingrate who should shut up because people who can't have kids at all have it so much worse than you. You are REALLY not allowed to have pain.

Sometimes for women going through IF you get the worse reactions from well meaning friends and family.
1. "Just stop trying and it will happen"
2. The generic "everything will be fine"
3. Pity
4. Pretending that the issue doesn't exist

All of these suck and are never helpful! Sometimes the only way to deal with the desperation and sadness is to pull away.

Give her time, even though you understand her pain you did have a child so you can't REALLY understand, get it?