Anonymous wrote:I think the conversation needs to be completely different. Social uprising, please!!!

I graduated with a Fine Arts degree from a pretty good private college, but with the scholarships it didn't cost more than a State would have and it was a lot better, more personal experience. I thought I was so unlucky graduating with 24,000 in debt (this was 2001) and couldn't fathom how I would pay it off, having never made more than minimum wage. I am also the oldest child of a blue-collar couple who did not attend college - my dad just figured that if I got the degree I would be instantly middle-class. Now that I am a parent, I'm baffled how my parents allowed me to be so disengaged growing up, and to major in art, not because I have/had great passion for it, but because I had zero confidence and could not really understand what else I could/should do. I was one of those high IQ test scorers who never learned to persist at anything, and my stupid parents thought everything would turn out right because the tests always came out well. By the time I'd started figuring things out it out there was nothing I could do about it, I couldn't afford another year, or grad school. I needed health insurance and had to start paying on the loans. I felt like such a loser because it took me 3 months to find a job after graduation. Oh, how times have changed!

On the other hand, a guy I knew in High School who did drugs and never finished HS is now making fantastic art and $$$.

Since then, I have never found it hard to find jobs. However, I have never had a position that had anything to do with my major. I have never worked in a job that truly required a college degree, and I think that it is sick and wrong that such an expensive degree should be the prerequisite for any sort of life with dignity.

How about this? How about, instead of "College for Everyone" we help make things suck less for people who do other work - people like the nice construction worker who offered to help me and my son catch up to the school bus; the hardworking restaurant cooks, the daycare workers, etc. College for the sake of knowledge is a luxury I wish everyone could have at some point in their life, but can society support a system in which everyone is in school until age 22-26+, retiring at 62-65 (younger for certain favored workers!) die prolonged, medically intensive deaths at 85-90? I don't think so; the math won't work. It doesn't help that tax codes and preferences seem to concentrate money in the direction of medicine, law, banking & real estate, and higher education. I know this won't be popular on DCUM but you highly educated people aren't so special that others should sacrifice their dignity so that you and yours can have a privileged life.

Sorry I didn't help, OP. I'm all for motivating our kids, but the stakes shouldn't be this high. I don't know how anyone can answer your question without knowing your kid.

Yes, it's all your parents' fault that you chose the wrong major. You have some serious baggage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A person with an associates in medical technologies can pull in more than an liberal arts major (without graduate school in law or something completely different).

If you can break into medical sales you can easily pull in 160-250k +

I know one person in medical sales, and he makes a lot. He didn't go to college.

Big deal. You are talking about one profession. Maybe her daughter doesn't want to go into medical sales. That's one of the benefits of college.... It allows you to pursue a variety of careers.

No, no, no. I'm not using that example as a reason for OP's kid not to go to college. I'm responding to the PP above me, who says to get an "associates in medical technologies." My point is that a person can get a liberal arts degree and go into sales and do well. I don't think the "medical technologies" degree is the ticket.

My friend who does well in medical sales got his job by knowing someone, not by a degree. And sales is an area where degree isn't the deciding factor; it's ALL about personality.

I actually think an associates in medical technologies is a very limiting degree. A bachelors in anything is going to be a better platform from which to launch a career.

As for OP and her daughter, I think a bachelors is necessary if you want white collar work. If you are interested in a trade, different story, but even then, if you are interested in a trade and want to work for a large company, some kind of degree is helpful.

But I don't think it's helpful to go deep into debt. Go to a state school. Work part time, so you aren't taking out the entire tuition in loans. Live at home and commute. The student loan debt is killer. But a degree is helpful.

I do think that a degree isn't enough to ensure a job. So by junior year of college, students should be thinking about internships, part time employment to get in the door, et cetera, and start focusing on getting some kind of experience so that they can get a job when they graduate.

Unless the hospitals all go out of business, a medical tech can always fall back on a hospital tech job and pull in 80-100k a year non management.

Anonymous wrote:Lets make college only for the rich
That way high schools in lower ses areas can drop all AP and honors classes.

Manor is for those who are manor born

Or maybe just for the smart kids. Does little good when I see so many people educated well beyond the level of their intelligence.

Lets make college only for the rich
That way high schools in lower ses areas can drop all AP and honors classes.

Manor is for those who are manor born

Anonymous wrote:I think the conversation needs to be completely different. Social uprising, please!!!

I graduated with a Fine Arts degree from a pretty good private college, but with the scholarships it didn't cost more than a State would have and it was a lot better, more personal experience. I thought I was so unlucky graduating with 24,000 in debt (this was 2001) and couldn't fathom how I would pay it off, having never made more than minimum wage. I am also the oldest child of a blue-collar couple who did not attend college - my dad just figured that if I got the degree I would be instantly middle-class. Now that I am a parent, I'm baffled how my parents allowed me to be so disengaged growing up, and to major in art, not because I have/had great passion for it, but because I had zero confidence and could not really understand what else I could/should do. I was one of those high IQ test scorers who never learned to persist at anything, and my stupid parents thought everything would turn out right because the tests always came out well. By the time I'd started figuring things out it out there was nothing I could do about it, I couldn't afford another year, or grad school. I needed health insurance and had to start paying on the loans. I felt like such a loser because it took me 3 months to find a job after graduation. Oh, how times have changed!

On the other hand, a guy I knew in High School who did drugs and never finished HS is now making fantastic art and $$$.

Since then, I have never found it hard to find jobs. However, I have never had a position that had anything to do with my major. I have never worked in a job that truly required a college degree, and I think that it is sick and wrong that such an expensive degree should be the prerequisite for any sort of life with dignity.

How about this? How about, instead of "College for Everyone" we help make things suck less for people who do other work - people like the nice construction worker who offered to help me and my son catch up to the school bus; the hardworking restaurant cooks, the daycare workers, etc. College for the sake of knowledge is a luxury I wish everyone could have at some point in their life, but can society support a system in which everyone is in school until age 22-26+, retiring at 62-65 (younger for certain favored workers!) die prolonged, medically intensive deaths at 85-90? I don't think so; the math won't work. It doesn't help that tax codes and preferences seem to concentrate money in the direction of medicine, law, banking & real estate, and higher education. I know this won't be popular on DCUM but you highly educated people aren't so special that others should sacrifice their dignity so that you and yours can have a privileged life.

Sorry I didn't help, OP. I'm all for motivating our kids, but the stakes shouldn't be this high. I don't know how anyone can answer your question without knowing your kid.

Agreed.

who says a college degree is a waste of time and money? Only the ill-informed.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/widest-earnings-gap-college-grads-48-years-22463416

Last time I was getting my iron levels checked the phlebotemist (spelling?) told me all about the Discover Personal loans she had taken out in her name for her son to go to a low level state school.... about 90k. He was in his 5th year majoring in communications. The mom just didn't know better. I'm not particularly savvy or anything but her story made me feel sick. How can this be allowed to happen?

I think the conversation needs to be completely different. Social uprising, please!!!

I graduated with a Fine Arts degree from a pretty good private college, but with the scholarships it didn't cost more than a State would have and it was a lot better, more personal experience. I thought I was so unlucky graduating with 24,000 in debt (this was 2001) and couldn't fathom how I would pay it off, having never made more than minimum wage. I am also the oldest child of a blue-collar couple who did not attend college - my dad just figured that if I got the degree I would be instantly middle-class. Now that I am a parent, I'm baffled how my parents allowed me to be so disengaged growing up, and to major in art, not because I have/had great passion for it, but because I had zero confidence and could not really understand what else I could/should do. I was one of those high IQ test scorers who never learned to persist at anything, and my stupid parents thought everything would turn out right because the tests always came out well. By the time I'd started figuring things out it out there was nothing I could do about it, I couldn't afford another year, or grad school. I needed health insurance and had to start paying on the loans. I felt like such a loser because it took me 3 months to find a job after graduation. Oh, how times have changed!

On the other hand, a guy I knew in High School who did drugs and never finished HS is now making fantastic art and $$$.

Since then, I have never found it hard to find jobs. However, I have never had a position that had anything to do with my major. I have never worked in a job that truly required a college degree, and I think that it is sick and wrong that such an expensive degree should be the prerequisite for any sort of life with dignity.

How about this? How about, instead of "College for Everyone" we help make things suck less for people who do other work - people like the nice construction worker who offered to help me and my son catch up to the school bus; the hardworking restaurant cooks, the daycare workers, etc. College for the sake of knowledge is a luxury I wish everyone could have at some point in their life, but can society support a system in which everyone is in school until age 22-26+, retiring at 62-65 (younger for certain favored workers!) die prolonged, medically intensive deaths at 85-90? I don't think so; the math won't work. It doesn't help that tax codes and preferences seem to concentrate money in the direction of medicine, law, banking & real estate, and higher education. I know this won't be popular on DCUM but you highly educated people aren't so special that others should sacrifice their dignity so that you and yours can have a privileged life.

Sorry I didn't help, OP. I'm all for motivating our kids, but the stakes shouldn't be this high. I don't know how anyone can answer your question without knowing your kid.

Anonymous wrote:I work in a nonprofit where we all have humanities and arts degrees, nobody went to a top college, and we all make okay salaries. This has always been my experience working in nonprofit.

Highly unilkly she'll end up a barista with an English degree -- that is solid for getting her into entry level communications based jobs. That being said, I would account for projected income in deciding what school to send her too. I would never ever send my daughters to Yale for an English degree.

I know people who majored on English at yale who are now raking in tons of money on Wall Street.

The premise of the thread is totally incorrect. College grads will make more than quadruple the money in their lifetime than non-college grads made.
Heard this on the radio the other day: The only thing worse decision than getting a college degree is not getting one (or something like that)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A person with an associates in medical technologies can pull in more than an liberal arts major (without graduate school in law or something completely different).

If you can break into medical sales you can easily pull in 160-250k +

I know one person in medical sales, and he makes a lot. He didn't go to college.

Big deal. You are talking about one profession. Maybe her daughter doesn't want to go into medical sales. That's one of the benefits of college.... It allows you to pursue a variety of careers.

No, no, no. I'm not using that example as a reason for OP's kid not to go to college. I'm responding to the PP above me, who says to get an "associates in medical technologies." My point is that a person can get a liberal arts degree and go into sales and do well. I don't think the "medical technologies" degree is the ticket.

My friend who does well in medical sales got his job by knowing someone, not by a degree. And sales is an area where degree isn't the deciding factor; it's ALL about personality.

I actually think an associates in medical technologies is a very limiting degree. A bachelors in anything is going to be a better platform from which to launch a career.

As for OP and her daughter, I think a bachelors is necessary if you want white collar work. If you are interested in a trade, different story, but even then, if you are interested in a trade and want to work for a large company, some kind of degree is helpful.

But I don't think it's helpful to go deep into debt. Go to a state school. Work part time, so you aren't taking out the entire tuition in loans. Live at home and commute. The student loan debt is killer. But a degree is helpful.

I do think that a degree isn't enough to ensure a job. So by junior year of college, students should be thinking about internships, part time employment to get in the door, et cetera, and start focusing on getting some kind of experience so that they can get a job when they graduate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A person with an associates in medical technologies can pull in more than an liberal arts major (without graduate school in law or something completely different).

If you can break into medical sales you can easily pull in 160-250k +

I know one person in medical sales, and he makes a lot. He didn't go to college.

Big deal. You are talking about one profession. Maybe her daughter doesn't want to go into medical sales. That's one of the benefits of college.... It allows you to pursue a variety of careers.

Anonymous wrote:A person with an associates in medical technologies can pull in more than an liberal arts major (without graduate school in law or something completely different).

If you can break into medical sales you can easily pull in 160-250k +

I know one person in medical sales, and he makes a lot. He didn't go to college.

How much will she have in loans at the end of her education? Hard to give advice without that information.

OP yes, definitely have her go to college.

DH went to a state school, his parents paid nothing, he lived extremely frugally and came away with 80k in student loans after 4 years (go public schools!). He got an engineering degree though and had 5 job offers before graduation. He started off making 80k and we have paid off all his loans in no time. The loans were so small that we barely noticed them. He did drive his 10 year old car for 5 years though and lived in cheap housing until we were married.