Anonymous
01/30/2014 21:05
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
It seems to me that a purchaser in Crestwood or Palisades had a reasonable expectation of Wilson, and paid a preimum for it, but the purchaser in Anacostia or Eckington or Co Heights did not have a reasonable expectation; they won a lottery, and probably their house was inexpensive (by DC standards!).
Why should someone's private real estate investment entitle them to priority access to public schools? Should people who buy houses next to polling places get priority entrance to vote? If I buy a house near the National Science Foundation should I get first dibs on research grants?
I am not a parent at a DCPS school, but I think both IB and OOB parents have a reasonable "claim" to a school. That's the problem. (But it's not because of any investment. It's because it's something that's been true in the past, and they are expecting/hoping it to be true in the future.)
Anonymous
01/29/2014 20:50
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
Hearst is a great school, the existing strong community will grow even stronger with improved facilities. Go owls!
Anonymous
01/29/2014 11:21
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
Anonymous wrote:With regard to Hearst - how can a school that is using trailers not require expansion to meet current student capacity?
I don't mean any disrespect, I just want to know what you mean by "not expanding Hearst."
Perhaps we just understand different things by the word "expanding". Clearly they are expanding the size of the building. Sounds like that is what you meant, and if so, you are completely correct. I thought you meant expanding the student population. That they are not doing. They are taking the existing population, many of which are in trailers, and creating permanent space. Moreover, they are adding common space -- multi-purpose room, cafeteria, library, etc -- that never really existed in the 1930s building.
Anonymous
01/29/2014 10:43
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
The OOB overcrowding issue lies firmly at the feet of DCPS. Someplace, a few months back the chancellor mentioned that an ideal elementary budget starts with around 300 enrollment. For a school with fewer IB students, such as Eaton, the principal is pretty much forced to bring in OOB kids to ensure proper staffing...two 4th grade classes of 24 kids each vs a single class of 34, for instance
DCPS can and should be able to fix the allocation of funds to eliminate this issue; what are all their fiscal employees doing? Just signing checks?
Also, though I won't put this at the door of the current chancellor, modernization projects are being started which bear no correlation to the projected student numbers. It almost seems that no-one in DCPS looked at census data or construction permits, or spoke with an actuary. There should be no reason that schools which have been redone in the past 4 years need expansion...this is not Loudon county with tracts of open space being rapidly paved over.
DCPS can and should be able to fix the allocation of funds to eliminate this issue; what are all their fiscal employees doing? Just signing checks?
Also, though I won't put this at the door of the current chancellor, modernization projects are being started which bear no correlation to the projected student numbers. It almost seems that no-one in DCPS looked at census data or construction permits, or spoke with an actuary. There should be no reason that schools which have been redone in the past 4 years need expansion...this is not Loudon county with tracts of open space being rapidly paved over.
Anonymous
01/29/2014 10:17
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
PP meant that DCPS has no plans to increase the enrollment. The modernization/addition is to meet current enrollment needs.
Anonymous
01/29/2014 10:15
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
With regard to Hearst - how can a school that is using trailers not require expansion to meet current student capacity?
I don't mean any disrespect, I just want to know what you mean by "not expanding Hearst."
I don't mean any disrespect, I just want to know what you mean by "not expanding Hearst."
Anonymous
01/29/2014 09:13
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That is curious about Eaton. Hearst will not be overcapacity given the renovation underway.
If history is any guide, it will be packed to the gills. There just is no political will to turn off the OOB spigot. Why on earth are they expanding Hearst anyway given the low IB attendance and the overcrowding at Deal and Wilson? It just shows a complete lack of foresight.
They are not expanding Hearst. They are building classroom and common space for the existing school population. Currently a large chunk of the school is in trailers, as is all common space (library, cafeteria, etc.). DCPS has no plans to expand the size of the school at this time. Now maybe as you suggest they will try to expand the school further. But after the new building is complete, the site will not have a lot of physical space to accommodate additional trailers.
Anonymous
01/28/2014 09:51
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I suspect you either have very young children or you don't live in the Deal school zone. Your information sounds gossipy and second-hand (i.e. the comment that no one raves about them makes me doubt you've actually spoken to a Deal parent). That you know parents thinking about leaving for the suburbs doesn't speak to true indicators of quality in these schools. I'd also like to see how many of those families actually pull the plug. Talking about leaving is a time-honored NWDC parlor game. I smile when I think about all of the preschool events I went to where there was so much hand-wringing about Lafayette, Murch or Janney. Admitting that you will be sending your child to DCPS can be hard for some parents, particularly when you have friends/family/colleagues who make pointed remarks about how you'll have to "move or go private." However, most families that take the plunge are pleasantly surprised. Similarly, many parents of young elementary school students see Deal as a deal-breaker. However, as your children age you see older siblings go off and do well and you hear parents express their approval. Before you know it, your child is at Deal and you realize that the school is far from "borderline." In fact, Deal is a fabulous school that has my admiration for pulling off the difficult feat of addressing the academic needs of a very diverse student body. I have friends with kids at Westland and Pyle and I really don't see much of a difference in terms of academic press.
That brings me to my second point. I would argue that you are also incorrect when you say that there is nary a bad word to be said about the best MoCo schools. People love to tell you that academic nirvana lies in the suburbs. However, I was a k-12 lifer in the Wootton pyramid and I can articulate a myriad of reasons why my DC won't be following in my footsteps. I don't know what the future holds for my DC but I do know it will not include attendance at a W school.
This is 100% true. When my DD was in K I was not sending her to Deal and I was not alone. Fast forward 8 years - we are very happy with Deal along with the other families that decided to take the plunge.
Anonymous
01/28/2014 09:26
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
The boundaries in NW need to be redrawn, and more IB kids need to be slated for Hearst to relieve overcrowding at neighboring elementary schools.
Anonymous
01/28/2014 09:25
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
They do need to stop taking OOB kids into schools that are overcapacity, that seems like commonsense. That should happen now, you don't need a new policy for that to change.
Anonymous
01/28/2014 09:00
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
Anonymous wrote:That is curious about Eaton. Hearst will not be overcapacity given the renovation underway.
If history is any guide, it will be packed to the gills. There just is no political will to turn off the OOB spigot. Why on earth are they expanding Hearst anyway given the low IB attendance and the overcrowding at Deal and Wilson? It just shows a complete lack of foresight.
Anonymous
01/28/2014 08:20
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
That is curious about Eaton. Hearst will not be overcapacity given the renovation underway.
Anonymous
01/27/2014 22:46
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
@ Anon who wrote:
"The fact that every WOTP elementary school is overcrowded (NOT BECAUSE OF OBB KIDS) is the reason for the overcrowding."
Not necessarily true. John Eaton, for example, is now overcrowded. Yet it is something like 65% OOB students. So by definition the the level of OOB enrollment has something to do with the overcrowding,
"The fact that every WOTP elementary school is overcrowded (NOT BECAUSE OF OBB KIDS) is the reason for the overcrowding."
Not necessarily true. John Eaton, for example, is now overcrowded. Yet it is something like 65% OOB students. So by definition the the level of OOB enrollment has something to do with the overcrowding,
Anonymous
01/27/2014 13:06
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
OP here - thanks PP for some good insights.
Your point about parents talking about moving but eventually staying is a good one. I'd add that people who move to DC proper in the first place are perhaps more willing to take urban problems in stride, and therefore more likely to take a chance on an up and coming public schools. Less risk averse than some surburban dwellers. Even west of the park.
The types of positive comments I hear about Deal in my conversations with current parents are along the lines of: improved a lot; does a great job considering what they have to work with; racially diverse; we were pleasantly surprised and are very happy there; Sally loves it there; don't worry, your kids will do fine there (or anywhere). Views on Wilson are less positive.
The negative comments I hear about Pyle/Whitman are along the lines of: spoiled/elitist/arrogant/competitive. No-one criticizes the academics, college-readiness, or college admissions. I don't know anyone with kids in the Rockville HS you attended.
We are all different and when we hear the above comments (and study the school demographics, college admissions and testing) we draw our own conclusions.
We haven't talked about Fairfax, but parents there are probably the most enthusiastic of all - raving about the advanced/enrichment offerings and so on. It does truly sound like educational nirvana to me. But who wants to commute from Fairfax??!!
BTW I don't usually get into personal info on the net but in answer to your questions this discussion is not academic for me - Deal/Wilson is one option... as is a move to the 'burbs.
This thread has moved on from my original DCPS review questions... it's helped me a lot, and I think I'll leave it here from my side. Thanks to all the posters for the thoughts... I do sense a lot of optimism about Deal/Hardy/Wilson which is encouraging for me. I think the next big event is the review and we'll see what that does for better or worse.
Your point about parents talking about moving but eventually staying is a good one. I'd add that people who move to DC proper in the first place are perhaps more willing to take urban problems in stride, and therefore more likely to take a chance on an up and coming public schools. Less risk averse than some surburban dwellers. Even west of the park.
The types of positive comments I hear about Deal in my conversations with current parents are along the lines of: improved a lot; does a great job considering what they have to work with; racially diverse; we were pleasantly surprised and are very happy there; Sally loves it there; don't worry, your kids will do fine there (or anywhere). Views on Wilson are less positive.
The negative comments I hear about Pyle/Whitman are along the lines of: spoiled/elitist/arrogant/competitive. No-one criticizes the academics, college-readiness, or college admissions. I don't know anyone with kids in the Rockville HS you attended.
We are all different and when we hear the above comments (and study the school demographics, college admissions and testing) we draw our own conclusions.
We haven't talked about Fairfax, but parents there are probably the most enthusiastic of all - raving about the advanced/enrichment offerings and so on. It does truly sound like educational nirvana to me. But who wants to commute from Fairfax??!!
BTW I don't usually get into personal info on the net but in answer to your questions this discussion is not academic for me - Deal/Wilson is one option... as is a move to the 'burbs.
This thread has moved on from my original DCPS review questions... it's helped me a lot, and I think I'll leave it here from my side. Thanks to all the posters for the thoughts... I do sense a lot of optimism about Deal/Hardy/Wilson which is encouraging for me. I think the next big event is the review and we'll see what that does for better or worse.
Anonymous
01/26/2014 10:47
Subject: Please explain relevance of "OOB crowding" to the DCPS boundary review process
Anonymous wrote:
I would characterize your understanding of MS and HS in DC as limited and/or dated. Deal is no longer considered borderline by most WOTP parents. Hence the overcrowding. More and more WOTP families are choosing Wilson (again causing the crowding issue) and interest in School Without Walls continues to be high. Banneker has great scores but has not yet received a vote of confidence from WOTP families. Many chalk this up to racism but others point to low SAT scores. Finally, things are looking up for Hardy which, according to a recent post, is expecting an influx of in-boundary students. Personally, I'm really rooting for that school to succeed.
OP here - on reflection I have heard good things about School Without Walls - fair point. Banneker I am unfamiliar. I just looked it up and it's 60% free lunch, yet 99% graduation and college attendance. That's some impressive value-added. I don't know enough to express any solid opinion on it. I'll just say that the free lunch number worries me and a school that gives "N/A" as the white percentage (presumably 99% black/hispanic?) does not meet my standards for diversity. Nor does a school that is 99% white non-hispanic, for the record.
When I say Deal and Wilson are "borderline yes", I know people IB for these schools who are considering moving to MoCo, Arlington, Fairfax (or paying private if that's an option for them). The public opinion ranking seems to be: Deal first, then Wilson, then Hardy. But no-one raves about any of them. It is more of a careful calculus that weighs school quality against commute time and urban amenities vs. suburban life, etc. Most people I know would prefer to live in DC, other things held equal, and they may be willing to compromise on schools in order to "stay urban".
But other things are not equal. I have never heard a single negative thing about the best MD and VA schools except "they're too rich/white", and people put up with crappy commutes and pay for expensive houses for the privilege of sending their kids there.
This is what I mean by borderline. Maybe it's not the best word choice as it suggests a more negative view than what I intend.
I agree that I am outdated/uninformed about east-of-park schools, but I think this is a pretty fair assessment of where Hardy/Deal/Wilson stand in the eyes of most parents I talk to on this stuff.
I suspect you either have very young children or you don't live in the Deal school zone. Your information sounds gossipy and second-hand (i.e. the comment that no one raves about them makes me doubt you've actually spoken to a Deal parent). That you know parents thinking about leaving for the suburbs doesn't speak to true indicators of quality in these schools. I'd also like to see how many of those families actually pull the plug. Talking about leaving is a time-honored NWDC parlor game. I smile when I think about all of the preschool events I went to where there was so much hand-wringing about Lafayette, Murch or Janney. Admitting that you will be sending your child to DCPS can be hard for some parents, particularly when you have friends/family/colleagues who make pointed remarks about how you'll have to "move or go private." However, most families that take the plunge are pleasantly surprised. Similarly, many parents of young elementary school students see Deal as a deal-breaker. However, as your children age you see older siblings go off and do well and you hear parents express their approval. Before you know it, your child is at Deal and you realize that the school is far from "borderline." In fact, Deal is a fabulous school that has my admiration for pulling off the difficult feat of addressing the academic needs of a very diverse student body. I have friends with kids at Westland and Pyle and I really don't see much of a difference in terms of academic press.
That brings me to my second point. I would argue that you are also incorrect when you say that there is nary a bad word to be said about the best MoCo schools. People love to tell you that academic nirvana lies in the suburbs. However, I was a k-12 lifer in the Wootton pyramid and I can articulate a myriad of reasons why my DC won't be following in my footsteps. I don't know what the future holds for my DC but I do know it will not include attendance at a W school.