Anonymous wrote: As a Tiger Mom, I am very happy if others (white people especially) do not follow my parenting techniques. In fact the mom who scares me is another Tiger Mom, because her kid is a competition to my kid.

So to the non-Tiger moms I would say - carry on as before.

Thank you, hon!

Why "white people especially"? This thread is bizarre. You and white bully dad at 6:29 both sound like insufferable bigots.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 06:29.....While you tiger mom's kids may know how to solve the problems laid out for them, they will not know how to formulate new problems....to see where improvement is required. They might do fine, financially, but they will not be great....the Einsteins, the Jobs. Rather, they will be (at best) the people profiting off of the Einsteins or Jobs.

At worst, they will be college burnouts, strung out on drugs in the psych ward.

2:04 here, and I'm a WASP. Oh please, this is not just self-serving, it's an ugly stereotype.

Also, 6:29, you don't know how to punctuate, so I wouldn't pat myself on the back too hard if I were you.

Anonymous wrote:I am 06:29.....While you tiger mom's kids may know how to solve the problems laid out for them, they will not know how to formulate new problems....to see where improvement is required. They might do fine, financially, but they will not be great....the Einsteins, the Jobs. Rather, they will be (at best) the people profiting off of the Einsteins or Jobs.

At worst, they will be college burnouts, strung out on drugs in the psych ward.

2:04 here, and I'm a WASP. Oh please, this is not just self-serving, it's an ugly stereotype.

I am 06:29.....While you tiger mom's kids may know how to solve the problems laid out for them, they will not know how to formulate new problems....to see where improvement is required. They might do fine, financially, but they will not be great....the Einsteins, the Jobs. Rather, they will be (at best) the people profiting off of the Einsteins or Jobs.

At worst, they will be college burnouts, strung out on drugs in the psych ward.

As a Tiger Mom, I am very happy if others (white people especially) do not follow my parenting techniques. In fact the mom who scares me is another Tiger Mom, because her kid is a competition to my kid.

So to the non-Tiger moms I would say - carry on as before.

Thank you, hon!

NP here. Some of you paint wonderful pictures of motivation "just happening", as if everyone has the same kid as 6:29's DD. Then there's the Tiger Mom approach of punishing for bad grades. Yet another poster is worried about "whether my child will like me", which is actually one of the scarier things being said here, IMO. None of this seems very realistic or likely to work with all or even most kids.

For some kids, motivation doesn't just happen. For these kids, the parents do need to set expectations and they do need to enforce these expectations.

Punishment (taking away stuff) is not effective, most experts say (Kazdin, others). So to that extent I agree with some of you. But for some kids, parents absolutely do need to provide a framework, in the form of rewards/incentives (earning privileges) and structure (after dinner the electronics go away, you study at a desk or table and not on your back in your bed) and study skills (previewing the chapter, mnemonics, etc.).

For the kids who aren't clones of 6:29's DD (or of my own DD, now at a top Ivy), if you wait for this stuff to happen, it may not happen in time for college. Even if your kid makes it through college, you've lost your best opportunity, while your kid is still home, to teach these important work habits.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. She loses all TV, playdates and electronics when she earns disappointing grades. However nothing seems to get through to her like the fact that she disappointed me. Most of the time I'm pretty even keel but this is the one area where I get rattled easily. It is a real sacrifice to send her to her school.

OP, my DH and I were discussing a similar issue this morning, concerning our 9 year old DS. All I can say is, I hear you.

I will not apologize for being a "Tiger Mom." Grades ARE important, we ARE sacrificing a lot to send him to an elite private school, and he damn well better hold up his end of the bargain. My DC sounds a lot like yours -- loves to read, but is often unmotivated in school. At minimum he does not yet understand the value of this education and how well it could serve him in the future.

I think back to the stories of Obama's mother. If I recall correctly, she was waking him up at 4:00 in the morning to study. Every. Single. Day. She worked hard to send him to that fancy school he went to, and was not going to let him waltz through it with minimum effort. I would bet anything that he's pushing his own girls in the same way.

Painful!

I don't think bullying ones child into submission will yield long term benefits. If anything, it accustomes them to being bullied in a future workplace. It will sour their relationships with their siblings if they learn that the only way to get their way is to yell and yell and yell.

Setting specific goals with rewards works. TV time, free computer time, play time, money, trips to places they want to go are all incentives to earn for admirable effort and good grades.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. She loses all TV, playdates and electronics when she earns disappointing grades. However nothing seems to get through to her like the fact that she disappointed me. Most of the time I'm pretty even keel but this is the one area where I get rattled easily. It is a real sacrifice to send her to her school.

OP, my DH and I were discussing a similar issue this morning, concerning our 9 year old DS. All I can say is, I hear you.

I will not apologize for being a "Tiger Mom." Grades ARE important, we ARE sacrificing a lot to send him to an elite private school, and he damn well better hold up his end of the bargain. My DC sounds a lot like yours -- loves to read, but is often unmotivated in school. At minimum he does not yet understand the value of this education and how well it could serve him in the future.

I think back to the stories of Obama's mother. If I recall correctly, she was waking him up at 4:00 in the morning to study. Every. Single. Day. She worked hard to send him to that fancy school he went to, and was not going to let him waltz through it with minimum effort. I would bet anything that he's pushing his own girls in the same way.

We are trying an experiment with our 8th-grader: After years of pushing to get the homework done, and denying screentime if homework not done, I prevailed on DH to back off completely and let eighth grade be DC's responsibility. Of course the homework is not getting done. We meet with the teachers so DC can see the teacher as an ally, but no pressure. Frankly, it doesn't matter to me whether DC gets A's or F's now that we know the organizational skills are in place - because home life is now far sweeter and more peaceful; and having read about extrinsic vs. intrinsic motivation, I think we should have backed off long ago.

Don't back off, but don't yell. Try to make her achievement intrinsic. It needs to come from her in the end. Also, if she tries her best and gets a B, honor that. For me the standard has always been giving a class your best shot. Hang in there!

Read SCREAM FREE PARENTING. I was always patient, then my kids entered school, and I began yelling. WTF - I had NEVER yelled in all the prior years. Yelling is like Heroin, once you do it it is so damn hard to stop. But once you stop, you feel much more alive. However, like any addiction, and yelling is, it is hard to not fall off the wagon every now and then. Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:Here's a quick summary of the book, "Blessings of A B-Minus". Seems on point to the discussion, regardless of religion:

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/12/the-blessings-of-a-b-minus/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

This is a great book.

The tiger moms make me sick. My mom, way back when the dinosaurs roamed the planet, tried to nag me to work, but it did not happen. I did learn the material, but got lousy grades because of homework. When I understood the material (very quickly), I did not see the need to continue doing the work.

That was a problem until my Senior year in HS, when some teachers started lightening up...But the first time I good grades was the last semester in HS. In college, where results (material learned) was more important than effort, I excelled. Same with grad school. Professionally, I am a top performer, and considered the ideas guy on a scientific research team.

With my daughter, I do not care about her grades (she does). I care about how well she understands the material. And she does understand it, mostly. She is more concerned in doing well in her classes than I every was, though. But, she has to want to learn. There will be a day when she is on her own...if the drive comes from me, she will fail in college, as I will not be there to nag.

I wonder about the creativity of the children of tiger moms like this...

By the way, I hope you save money for therapy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am Asian. I will make sure that my kids are successful and would have learned time management and work ethics by the time they leave my house.

Some kids will learn these earlier than others, and I will be there each step of the way to help, guide and support them in every way that I can. However, after senior year - regardless of their intrinsic motivation and personality - they will be launched successfully.

OP again. I am not Asian born but do have many Asian friends. I actually am of Western European descent. I thought I would throw that it in since my methods are probably considered Eastern.

LOL. No, I don't consider it Eastern. I consider it very old school type of parenting. You do due diligence as a parent with some tough love thrown in. You try and figure out what each child needs and you give them that support and discipline.

I feel that I have a larger responsibility in raising my kid, than any other entity. I do not feel that that is the role of the school system or the teachers. I see the school as as the workplace and the teacher as the boss. My kids job is to do well at their work. I tell them that if they are successful, I am the one person who gains nothing, but am the happiest and proudest of their achievements. I also tell them that I will not be there for the rest of their lives - so the values I can teach them while they are under my care should be solid enough to last them a lifetime. My job is to watch them carefully, understand the weakness in their personality, work habits etc, and work hard with them to fix it.

If I need to yell - then I will yell. If I need to wake up at 4:00 am to make coffee for them and wake them up to study, I will do that. It is not always easy, but my life for these few years revolves around their needs. Being a parent is not easy.

OP again....I give my kids the same lecture about how their job is to do well in school. My husband and I work full time and I've told both kids that our job to ensure that we are able to pay the mortgage, private school, food, clothing, activities etc so that they may have a much better life than we did growing up. I've never used the teacher is the boss analogy but I do equate the tests to their "performance" reviews. When my DD gets a really bad grade, I tell her that if I continually performed like that at work that I would lose my job. I also tell my kids that I can't support them forever but I will give them the tools so they will be successful. I love your words though very sweet.

Alas, I don't think we could ever be friends. I hate that phrase (job to do well in school). Really hate it. And the performance review thing - oh boy are you in for it. What will you do if your child works hard and still does poorly on something? Doing well in elementary and doing well later are different things. Either you focus on inputs and study skills, or your teenage years will be rough, particularly if there is a younger kid in the house to whom this stuff comes easier.

Signed, mother of an extremely bright but underachieving lovely 14 year old who I don't want to hate me.

I am the Asian mother and I am curious that you would label your child "extremely bright but underachieving". If your child is underachieving then how do you know that they are extremely bright? And who even says that about their own kid? Should this praise not come from the teachers around him, who have seen 100s of children of all caliber in their class-room?

Secondly, being a disciplinarian does not mean that your child will hate you. If you operate with this fear then you will not really do justice to your duty as a parent. I am a tough mom but I am loved by my children. My kids are happy kids because doing well in school also makes them feel accomplished and improves their confidence and self-worth. It also opens doors for them and give them opportunities that they would not get otherwise.

I make myself available to my children and they know that they are my priority. I spend enough quality and quantity time with them, that I do not fear about my place in their lives or their hearts.

Thi sis pretty terrifying. To tie your children's self worth and happiness to grades in school. You are defining your children by their marks and that is sad. they are so much more than that and it is too bad you see them only as academic pupils and not as complex people. Your children's lives are so narrow focused and someday they will do poorly on a test - then what - should they kill themselves because now they have no worth? I have seen Asian students make suicide attempts because to them that is better than letting their family down by not being a high achiever. I know others who spiral into depressing and deal with very high levels of anxiety because they have been raised that their parents care only about their grades and not them as a person, so when their grades go down, they believe no one cares about them. Life is about so much more than school, happiness is about so much more than school. Please stop obsessing about marks and love your children for who they are rather than only for what they produce.