Anonymous
Post 11/27/2013 10:53     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
You know how you say your biggest fear is she'll get involved with guys because of the praise, lying, etc? Yeah, you're going to be responsible for that. Everything you are doing is basically leading her into that. I'm so beyond disgusted with you OP. I hope your husband is a better parent to this girl than you.
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2013 10:51     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
Anonymous wrote:She does enjoy praise, though. I am trying to find a good balance of discipline and praise. Just this morning the 4 of us did a deep kitchen cleaning. Her task was to move all the things off the counters and clean the kitchen counters. She announced she was through and when I looked she had not done a good job. So I thought a minute and decided I could do it myself but she wouldn't learn anything. No. So I called her in (she was watching a show on the computer when her sister-an earned privilege --reward). I told her I appreciated how she had a positive attitude and I knew it was a pain to unplug the mixer and toaster and other things to remove them from the counter and how the surface in front of the appliances was very clean. Then I had her wipe her finger where the toaster oven had been and especially where the waffle maker was and she was surprised to see how sticky those surfaces were. (I spray the waffle iron and didn't realize how much residue had accumulated). I told her that crumbs and dust stick to the counter if not washed and this could eventually get in our food and since we have 4 pets there is alot of "yuck" in the air) She got the cloth under hot water again and scrubbed till it wasn't sticky anymore. I then told her "Great- I have been a good teacher and you have been a great student".

She and her sister get lots of personal and together attention. DH is semi retired and spends more time with his children than the average working father. Walks, shopping, library trips, reading, game playing, errands, chores--we all do them together. And forget about movies. This is a child who cannot stand the sensory overload of a movie. Suspense puts her in a panic. She covers her ears in public toilets and at the beach. I think the child would go into a coma if she were to see a 3D movie. She won't even watch movies with us at home. She excuses herself. Only thing movie wise she will watch is Shawn the Sheep but only after we asked her to try and she could leave if it was too uncomfortable.

I think her main problems stem from her learning disabilities and we will need to learn further on how to deal with that.
Perhaps I will post in the special needs section.



OH MY GOD. Do you HEAR yourself?? You should have just said, "Great job, thank you." It ISN'T ABOUT YOU. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU BEING A GOOD TEACHER. Why would you even say that to her?????
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2013 09:58     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because you keep referring to her as "this child". It sounds cold and distant. And, disciplining her is not the answer. You may need to work with a psychologist or another professional to help you because you are not trained to figure it out.




"This child" as opposed to her other siblings.


Out of 7 kids she is the only one with learning disabilities- in fact the only one not in gifted. I don't know how to deal with an average kid with learning disabilities. We have read books, talked to professionals and tried different ways of helping her. Old habits die hard. She has probably the sweetest disposition kids out of the 7 too. All her teachers consistently say they have never seen a kid try as hard as she does so it's not like we are dealing with a lazy or defiant kid. Our problem is simply how do we deal with the repeated disobedience and organization issues.

The consensus seems that we are too heavy with punishment- but this comes after many warnings. What do you all do when your children disobey? Or is everyone "free range" and don't have rules per say?




You said in an earlier post that you knew from when they were infants that one would always be more advanced than the other. That is troubling. First, there is no way that you can tell from two infants which will be more "advanced". It sounds like at least partially a self-fulfilling prophecy. Next, it sounds like "this child" is very advanced in terms of her effort towards things and her kindness. If she is trying to so hard, just keep focusing on that awesome quality. If she is kind, keep focusing on that awesome quality too. Frankly, these are the most important qualities. Kindness and trying hard will serve her throughout her life. I think you may need to back all the way off, and come at this from a completely different place. She shouldn't have lied, and she should have done her homework. But you need to be consistent on enforcing her routines and habits that help her be successful, and go easy on the rest. Easier said than done, i know.
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2013 09:53     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It isn't about the punishments, its about the constant pushing for her to do things that are a struggle. She disobeys because you are setting her up for failure.

over and over again: ease up on the requirements; let her do her homework alone and if she screws up let the teacher handle it and if the teacher doesn't handle it, get an IEP or a stronger IEP. let her have fun. Let her have her own space.


She has an IEP. We have attended countless meetings and have the strongest/best IEP possible. I do not think it is fair for either the teacher or DD to have the entire sheet done wrong.


This is precisely what the teacher should see. if she gets an entire sheet wrong, the teacher should see that. It isn't "fair" to your DD to keep that from the teachers. This is something people are writing over and over again. I think some posters are being unfair to you by twisting the words you use to describe your DD. I don't doubt that you love her very much. But you are being resistent to very simple advice that is being posted over and over again: Do not correct her homework. Let her have space to do whatever she wants, even if it involves reading junk and eating (some) junk. Stop going nuclear with the punishments. Ease up on the constant surveillance. Get a thorough evaluation.

Why are you being resistant to these steps?
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2013 09:39     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It isn't about the punishments, its about the constant pushing for her to do things that are a struggle. She disobeys because you are setting her up for failure.

over and over again: ease up on the requirements; let her do her homework alone and if she screws up let the teacher handle it and if the teacher doesn't handle it, get an IEP or a stronger IEP. let her have fun. Let her have her own space.


She has an IEP. We have attended countless meetings and have the strongest/best IEP possible. I do not think it is fair for either the teacher or DD to have the entire sheet done wrong.


If she's regularly getting large parts of her homework wrong - like an entire sheet wrong - then her teachers need to know that. It's a sign there's something *wrong* that needs to be addressed. Maybe her IEP isn't completely appropriate, and there's an additional issue that needs to be addressed, for example.

If it's once in a while she does an assignment completely wrong, then let it go. One bit of homework done wrong every once in a while is not a big deal, whereas letting your daughter direct her own homework is a big deal (to her).

I think posting on the special needs board makes sense. I suspect you might want to look into getting further tests done for your child so you can help make sure she has all the supports she needs. There is nothing more miserable than feeling stupid because no matter how hard you try you can't do something that everyone else is saying you should be able to do. I'm old enough that I have friends and relatives who were undiagnosed dyslexics, and even though *now* they know they have dyslexia, they still have that shadow of "I'm stupid" hovering over everything. It's terrible.
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2013 09:15     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because you keep referring to her as "this child". It sounds cold and distant. And, disciplining her is not the answer. You may need to work with a psychologist or another professional to help you because you are not trained to figure it out.




"This child" as opposed to her other siblings.


Out of 7 kids she is the only one with learning disabilities- in fact the only one not in gifted. I don't know how to deal with an average kid with learning disabilities. We have read books, talked to professionals and tried different ways of helping her. Old habits die hard. She has probably the sweetest disposition kids out of the 7 too. All her teachers consistently say they have never seen a kid try as hard as she does so it's not like we are dealing with a lazy or defiant kid. Our problem is simply how do we deal with the repeated disobedience and organization issues.

The consensus seems that we are too heavy with punishment- but this comes after many warnings. What do you all do when your children disobey? Or is everyone "free range" and don't have rules per say?




I don't think you are Mommy Dearest, but I think what people are reacting to is that you seem really upset about things that seem relatively minor to most other parents. We are not "free range" but we know that we have to keep our cool and not get to a level 8 on the anger scale (scale being 1-10) for things like "ate chips when she wasn't authorized" and "went outside to play when homework wasn't done yet." Even if there was lying/dishonesty involved, you can't make these into a level 8 reaction on your part. You can be disappointed. You can express that. But, give your child a little room to do a few things wrong and disappointing. She's not you and she doesn't have to please you all the time. You can still have rules (even if it is a "no chips" rule -- although I'm the PP who suggested buying individual bags and letting her have one). But, realize that there is a difference b/c breaking the rules when the rule involves chips and breaking the rule when the rule involves drugs/sex/hutting someones else. Talk with her about the homework: You require that it gets done. She decides the when. So long as she can show it to you by the time she goes to bed. Talk with her about the consequences (#1, she doesn't have it done for the next day, and #2 maybe she loses TV/Computer/phone time for the next day. Note that I said the next DAY, not the next WEEK.). Don't make the punishment for a small offense too severe or you won't have anywhere to go when the offense gets bigger. And give her a chance to be on non-punishment status more than being on punishment-status. She's going to stop trying to please you if she is under punishment conditions more often than not.

Lastly, try to "catch her doing something good" as Dr. Phil would say. But, generally, moderate your reactions -- the infractions you have described are small and shouldn't be making you so upset/stressed. They are relatively normal.
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2013 08:55     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
Anonymous wrote:The way you refer to her as "this kid" makes it sound like you dissociate her from your other children.

Anyway, I think you do need to ease up and let her not feel as rigid and stressed about everything


Not once did you say "my daughter" - just that girl or that kid...this points to serious underlying issues in your relationship -'chips and homework are secondary issues...
Anonymous
Post 11/26/2013 23:39     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
It's possible that your daughter has FASD (prenatal alcohol effects). This is an invisible, underdiagnosed issue, and adopted children are at risk. It is often misdiagnosed as ADHD.

I agree with other posters -- you need to look not at punishing certain behaviors, or talking about "lies", but trying to understand how it must feel for this daughter, knowing that her siblings are gifted, and not being able to "measure up".

It seems like you are on the right track when you look for things that she is good at. Also, this child may not understand what "deep cleaning" means, and may need more explicit instructions. Every time you think about judging, blaming and punishing, I would try to think about whether your expectations are too high. There are reasons behind her behavior.
Anonymous
Post 11/26/2013 23:21     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the disobedience and lying about it is a big part of the problem. We've had this problem but have come a long way by realizing that it was our fault, not the child's. We've stopped putting him in a position where he is tempted to lie, and we respect his own compass more. We sit down every Sunday and ask how we can help him achieve his goals. He has made some mistakes and I suspect he learned more from them than when we directed everything (when to brush, when to do homework, what to read). Makes a big difference, and we have a lot more fun together, but you have to be willing to change.


Thank you. This is helpful advice. I appreciate your response.
Anonymous
Post 11/26/2013 22:58     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
It sounds like the disobedience and lying about it is a big part of the problem. We've had this problem but have come a long way by realizing that it was our fault, not the child's. We've stopped putting him in a position where he is tempted to lie, and we respect his own compass more. We sit down every Sunday and ask how we can help him achieve his goals. He has made some mistakes and I suspect he learned more from them than when we directed everything (when to brush, when to do homework, what to read). Makes a big difference, and we have a lot more fun together, but you have to be willing to change.
Anonymous
Post 11/26/2013 22:50     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
Anonymous wrote:Do you treat your kids differently? I.e. other kids can have chips/screen time whenever? Because that is a recipe for disaster.


No.
Anonymous
Post 11/26/2013 22:42     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
Anonymous wrote:She does enjoy praise, though. I am trying to find a good balance of discipline and praise. Just this morning the 4 of us did a deep kitchen cleaning. Her task was to move all the things off the counters and clean the kitchen counters. She announced she was through and when I looked she had not done a good job. So I thought a minute and decided I could do it myself but she wouldn't learn anything. No. So I called her in (she was watching a show on the computer when her sister-an earned privilege --reward). I told her I appreciated how she had a positive attitude and I knew it was a pain to unplug the mixer and toaster and other things to remove them from the counter and how the surface in front of the appliances was very clean. Then I had her wipe her finger where the toaster oven had been and especially where the waffle maker was and she was surprised to see how sticky those surfaces were. (I spray the waffle iron and didn't realize how much residue had accumulated). I told her that crumbs and dust stick to the counter if not washed and this could eventually get in our food and since we have 4 pets there is alot of "yuck" in the air) She got the cloth under hot water again and scrubbed till it wasn't sticky anymore. I then told her "Great- I have been a good teacher and you have been a great student".

She and her sister get lots of personal and together attention. DH is semi retired and spends more time with his children than the average working father. Walks, shopping, library trips, reading, game playing, errands, chores--we all do them together. And forget about movies. This is a child who cannot stand the sensory overload of a movie. Suspense puts her in a panic. She covers her ears in public toilets and at the beach. I think the child would go into a coma if she were to see a 3D movie. She won't even watch movies with us at home. She excuses herself. Only thing movie wise she will watch is Shawn the Sheep but only after we asked her to try and she could leave if it was too uncomfortable.

I think her main problems stem from her learning disabilities and we will need to learn further on how to deal with that.
Perhaps I will post in the special needs section.



Sorry, but all I can think of when I read this is "Mommy Dearest."
Anonymous
Post 11/26/2013 22:42     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
Do you treat your kids differently? I.e. other kids can have chips/screen time whenever? Because that is a recipe for disaster.
Anonymous
Post 11/26/2013 22:41     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
Anonymous wrote:It isn't about the punishments, its about the constant pushing for her to do things that are a struggle. She disobeys because you are setting her up for failure.

over and over again: ease up on the requirements; let her do her homework alone and if she screws up let the teacher handle it and if the teacher doesn't handle it, get an IEP or a stronger IEP. let her have fun. Let her have her own space.


She has an IEP. We have attended countless meetings and have the strongest/best IEP possible. I do not think it is fair for either the teacher or DD to have the entire sheet done wrong.
Anonymous
Post 11/26/2013 22:38     Subject: Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid
It isn't about the punishments, its about the constant pushing for her to do things that are a struggle. She disobeys because you are setting her up for failure.

over and over again: ease up on the requirements; let her do her homework alone and if she screws up let the teacher handle it and if the teacher doesn't handle it, get an IEP or a stronger IEP. let her have fun. Let her have her own space.