Anonymous
12/09/2013 18:48
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
Anonymous wrote:
If the beliefs of the "others" are ok, why does Christianity have so much emphasis on proselytizing and conversion?
Go to Ireland and discuss Protestants vs. Catholics.
Go to any middle eastern country and discuss Sunni vs. Shia.
Go to India/Pakistan and look at Hindus and Muslims.
Look at the other PP who classified Mormonism as a separate religion, when the Mormons consider themselves Christians (not sure what Jehov
Look at the evangelical Christians who make it clear that you're only going to Heaven if you have a personal relationship with God and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
And if you think a lot Christians aren't praying for their football team to win over the other set of Christians on the other side of the field, you haven't spent nearly enough time in the South.
Jesus said GO and Tell the others. Before ascending he said to desciples they must go and tell the world. He would call people from all nations.
I have been to Ireland and it is not about religion, but ethnic groups
I am familiar with sunni vs shia, they can marry each other and it not such a big deal as you would like it to be
India/Pakistan have historical struggles, the English decided to divide them
Evangelicals are not the only ones saying you need a relationship with God and Jesus.
I think praying for the outcome to be in favor of your football team winning is a US thing. Elsewhere it would be considered too vain/irrelevant to even mention in a prayer
Anonymous
12/09/2013 18:47
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
But my point re Christianity is that Jesus was very clear that God is the only judge, not man.
I agree. But if the Christian God is the judge, then, by definition, those who are not Christian are judged as lacking. The essence of Christianity as a proselytizing religion is that Christianity is "right" and those who are not Christians are "wrong."
So people who are throwing bombs at each other, over religious differences no less, aren't actually behaving in a Christian way (it happens, a lot, obviously).
I understand your point, but not long after Jesus made it clear that God is the only judge, Christians started splintering into different sects based on the way they interpreted what Jesus said.
They may not be behaving in the way Jesus supposedly wanted them to, but they're behaving in a way that is very consistent for Christians (and other religions, I'm not picking on Christians in particular).
Granted, that may be fallible and inherently sinful humans corrupting Jesus' message, but, at the end of the day, those religious distinctions have been used for persecution and discrimination - both within the various flavors of Christianity and between Christians and non-Christians.
Each of the various flavors of Christianity perpetuates an "us vs. them" mentality of "we're right and they're wrong" because they don't believe as we do - and that's the essence of religion.
Religion provides a binding belief structure that unifies a group, and it makes it easier for that group to consider outsiders as "other" - because they don't share insiders' belief structure. Religion provides a unifying element that divides the believers from the non-believers.
Jesus may want everyone to be Christian, but, implicitly, that means those who aren't are "wrong" according to the Christian religion.
You may love me as your neighbor, but according to Christianity I'm not getting into Heaven unless I believe as you do. Because while you love me, God judges me.
Anonymous
12/09/2013 18:43
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
Their doctrine is too different from what the protestants or catholics teach, so none of them recognize them as Christians.Anonymous wrote:And Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Christians, too, but the PP considers them a separate religion.
Jehovas Witness is about multiple gods and 140,000 ONLY get to go to heaven
Mormons have already had the 2nd coming of Christ
both are Born In The USA religions, not middle east
Anonymous
12/09/2013 17:56
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
Anonymous wrote:PP here. Yes, there were a lot of stereotypes in my post, but the point remains the same - religion is essentially tribal and creates an us vs them mentality - and it was intended to do so. While in many cases the us vs. them is a reflection of politics, it also plays out in the religion.
If the beliefs of the "others" are ok, why does Christianity have so much emphasis on proselytizing and conversion?
Go to Ireland and discuss Protestants vs. Catholics.
Go to any middle eastern country and discuss Sunni vs. Shia.
Go to India/Pakistan and look at Hindus and Muslims.
Look at the other PP who classified Mormonism as a separate religion, when the Mormons consider themselves Christians (not sure what Jehov
Look at the evangelical Christians who make it clear that you're only going to Heaven if you have a personal relationship with God and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
And if you think a lot Christians aren't praying for their football team to win over the other set of Christians on the other side of the field, you haven't spent nearly enough time in the South.
I'm the PP who tried to respond to you. I can't speak for the non-Christian religions. But my point re Christianity is that Jesus was very clear that God is the only judge, not man. So people who are throwing bombs at each other, over religious differences no less, aren't actually behaving in a Christian way (it happens, a lot, obviously). Also, classifiying Mormonism or Jehovah's witness as a "separate" religion is just acknowledging differences in beliefs, it's not necessarily looking down on them. My understanding about the football players is that they're praying to do their best, blah blah blah, but I'm sure you';re right that some are praying for the win.
Anonymous
12/09/2013 17:16
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
And Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Christians, too, but the PP considers them a separate religion.
Anonymous
12/09/2013 16:26
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
PP here. Yes, there were a lot of stereotypes in my post, but the point remains the same - religion is essentially tribal and creates an us vs them mentality - and it was intended to do so. While in many cases the us vs. them is a reflection of politics, it also plays out in the religion.
If the beliefs of the "others" are ok, why does Christianity have so much emphasis on proselytizing and conversion?
Go to Ireland and discuss Protestants vs. Catholics.
Go to any middle eastern country and discuss Sunni vs. Shia.
Go to India/Pakistan and look at Hindus and Muslims.
Look at the other PP who classified Mormonism as a separate religion, when the Mormons consider themselves Christians (not sure what Jehov
Look at the evangelical Christians who make it clear that you're only going to Heaven if you have a personal relationship with God and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
And if you think a lot Christians aren't praying for their football team to win over the other set of Christians on the other side of the field, you haven't spent nearly enough time in the South.
If the beliefs of the "others" are ok, why does Christianity have so much emphasis on proselytizing and conversion?
Go to Ireland and discuss Protestants vs. Catholics.
Go to any middle eastern country and discuss Sunni vs. Shia.
Go to India/Pakistan and look at Hindus and Muslims.
Look at the other PP who classified Mormonism as a separate religion, when the Mormons consider themselves Christians (not sure what Jehov
Look at the evangelical Christians who make it clear that you're only going to Heaven if you have a personal relationship with God and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
And if you think a lot Christians aren't praying for their football team to win over the other set of Christians on the other side of the field, you haven't spent nearly enough time in the South.
Anonymous
12/09/2013 08:59
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
Anonymous wrote:Jehovas Witnesses and Mormons are not mainstream Christian demoninations but separate religionsAnonymous wrote:
I do know a lot of protestants and this supposed looking down on idolatrous catholics is a myth. Sometimes cultish behavior exists, but is rare. The us vs them is not my experience. Pagan comes from Latin, which means a country side dweller. Christianity spread into the cities first.
I agree. The first post indulges in a whole bunch of stereotypes that really have very little foundation. I guess I don't have the energy to take on the canard that all Christians are praying for their own football teams to win. So let's move on to the more serious problems of how PP misrepresents the entire faith.
PP is simply taking the Luke and Matthew quotes out of context. The quotes refer to following Christ's example (giving up riches, giving to the poor, loving your enemy, and the rest). They couldn't have referred to any requirement to swear allegiance to any particular form of Christianity, because the word "Christian" didn't even exist at the time. The term "Christian" was applied later to His disciples.
Second, it's very hard to argue that the following key tenets of the faith are exclusionary: (1) "let him who is without sin cast the first stone"; and (2) "love your enemy."
You are confusing.
Nobody is now living in the year 33 A.D.
Anonymous
12/09/2013 01:11
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
Anonymous wrote:Pp, I do not understand, but you sound like a hillbilly preacher
PP, you sound like a troll. Scratch that, you are a troll.
Anonymous
12/08/2013 23:41
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
Pp, I do not understand, but you sound like a hillbilly preacher
Anonymous
12/08/2013 21:16
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
Anonymous wrote:Jehovas Witnesses and Mormons are not mainstream Christian demoninations but separate religionsAnonymous wrote:It is not natural to think others are inferior or inherently bad. Religion is not nationalism, no real tribal divinity would not create inferior being who are inherently bad
Are you kidding? The essence of religion is tribalism and the creation of "us" and "them."
2/3 of the Abrahamic religions believe that if you don't believe "our way" you're not doing it right and you're not going to Heaven/Paradise.
When you get to the various Christian traditions, Christians call non-Christians heretics, pagans or infidels (with a lot of history of trying to drive the "infidels" out of the Holy Land).
In Luke 13:24, Jesus warns everyone to “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.” Jesus even says that many will try to enter it and “will not be able to.” So, according to the Bible, many will expect to go to heaven but Jesus says, in Matthew 7:23 “I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'” If that's not exclusionary, I don't know what is.
Within the various Christian traditions you have the Protestants looking down on the idolatrous Catholics (and vice versa) and everyone looking down on the Mormons for, allegedly, not being Christians, and don't get me started on the way people feel about Jehovah's Witnesses. Then there are the "born again" Christians who think they have a monopoly on the "true faith" and that everyone else needs to be "saved."
Then there are those who expect God to choose "their side" in sporting events, praying for God to let them win over the "other side" despite the fact that the other side is probably Christian, too.
Christian sects are based on exclusionary, tribal principles, and those get applied in life and after death.
I do know a lot of protestants and this supposed looking down on idolatrous catholics is a myth. Sometimes cultish behavior exists, but is rare. The us vs them is not my experience. Pagan comes from Latin, which means a country side dweller. Christianity spread into the cities first.
I agree. The first post indulges in a whole bunch of stereotypes that really have very little foundation. I guess I don't have the energy to take on the canard that all Christians are praying for their own football teams to win. So let's move on to the more serious problems of how PP misrepresents the entire faith.
PP is simply taking the Luke and Matthew quotes out of context. The quotes refer to following Christ's example (giving up riches, giving to the poor, loving your enemy, and the rest). They couldn't have referred to any requirement to swear allegiance to any particular form of Christianity, because the word "Christian" didn't even exist at the time. The term "Christian" was applied later to His disciples.
Second, it's very hard to argue that the following key tenets of the faith are exclusionary: (1) "let him who is without sin cast the first stone"; and (2) "love your enemy."
Anonymous
12/08/2013 19:58
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
Jehovas Witnesses and Mormons are not mainstream Christian demoninations but separate religionsAnonymous wrote:It is not natural to think others are inferior or inherently bad. Religion is not nationalism, no real tribal divinity would not create inferior being who are inherently bad
Are you kidding? The essence of religion is tribalism and the creation of "us" and "them."
2/3 of the Abrahamic religions believe that if you don't believe "our way" you're not doing it right and you're not going to Heaven/Paradise.
When you get to the various Christian traditions, Christians call non-Christians heretics, pagans or infidels (with a lot of history of trying to drive the "infidels" out of the Holy Land).
In Luke 13:24, Jesus warns everyone to “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.” Jesus even says that many will try to enter it and “will not be able to.” So, according to the Bible, many will expect to go to heaven but Jesus says, in Matthew 7:23 “I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'” If that's not exclusionary, I don't know what is.
Within the various Christian traditions you have the Protestants looking down on the idolatrous Catholics (and vice versa) and everyone looking down on the Mormons for, allegedly, not being Christians, and don't get me started on the way people feel about Jehovah's Witnesses. Then there are the "born again" Christians who think they have a monopoly on the "true faith" and that everyone else needs to be "saved."
Then there are those who expect God to choose "their side" in sporting events, praying for God to let them win over the "other side" despite the fact that the other side is probably Christian, too.
Christian sects are based on exclusionary, tribal principles, and those get applied in life and after death.
I do know a lot of protestants and this supposed looking down on idolatrous catholics is a myth. Sometimes cultish behavior exists, but is rare. The us vs them is not my experience. Pagan comes from Latin, which means a country side dweller. Christianity spread into the cities first.
Anonymous
12/06/2013 13:12
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
HTML-challenged PP, again, reversing myself. Having done some more research on various grammar sites I've come to the conclusion that I was wrong.
It should be "Let him..."
It should be "Let him..."
Anonymous
12/06/2013 12:40
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Many religions have an important commandment to not judge others/let he[/be] who is without sin cast the first stone. The idea is that only God can judge us. Now whether adherents stick to this is another issue!/
That's [b]him, a perfect God uses correct grammar.
Actually, "he who is without sin" is correct, because "he" is the subject of that statement. When simplified it would be "he is without sin."
Saying "him who is without sin" would be common usage, but is not traditionally correct.
No, that's not the subject of the sentence. "Let" is a command. No subject present, just assume. Him would be the object. Let us, let him. Let her, let him.
"Who is without sin" is a subordinate clause.
Should be him.
Anonymous
12/06/2013 12:23
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
Damn. While my grammar may be correct, my HTML is failing.
Anonymous
12/06/2013 12:22
Subject: Your Journey to Christianity, Judaism or Islam
Many religions have an important commandment to not judge others/let he[/be] who is without sin cast the first stone. The idea is that only God can judge us. Now whether adherents stick to this is another issue!/
That's [b]him, a perfect God uses correct grammar.
Actually, "he who is without sin" is correct, because "he" is the subject of that statement. When simplified it would be "he is without sin."
Saying "him who is without sin" would be common usage, but is not traditionally correct.