Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 13:50     Subject: tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think the more exclusionary Ward 3 parents become, and the more they wage war on OOB families (who earned their spots at WotP school through established policies and enabled those schools to maximize their budgets) will push the Chancellor towards a solution of no boundaries. Turning "OOB" into a dirty word will necessitate getting rid of it altogether.


I think you are misinterpreting how IB parents see the OOB issue. Basically, it is an issue of capacity. What are we supposed to do when the school is full? Rather than continuing to shoehorn more and more students into a few schools, DCPS needs to make more schools acceptable to DCPS parents. If I were an OOB parent, I would resent the hell out of the fact that I had to drive across town to make sure my DC had a good education. Instead, people feel lucky that they made it into a good school. Demand quality in your own neighborhood. Demand that DCPS do its job.


That's a great argument ("demand quality in your own neighborhood")....for maybe 5-10 years from now. The point you're missing is the children who earned OOB spots at WotP elementary schools are for all intents and purposes considered "in-boundary" for middle and high school. There is and should be no distinction. That is the system and policy that DCPS has established and is essentially the "promise" they have given those families (trust me, I have printed and saved several references to this). DCPS has preached about pathways for educating those children that ensure continuity. Deal doesn't accept any "OOB" children anymore. If they accepted any last year, it was very few. Of course in your mind, Deal does because they allow those children who attended a feeder elementary as an OOB in. But that's how it should be.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 13:48     Subject: tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
Anonymous wrote:I think the more exclusionary Ward 3 parents become, and the more they wage war on OOB families (who earned their spots at WotP school through established policies and enabled those schools to maximize their budgets) will push the Chancellor towards a solution of no boundaries. Turning "OOB" into a dirty word will necessitate getting rid of it altogether.


Can we stop with this nonsense? They're not getting rid of boundaries. On the heels of a much-touted inprovement in test scores, they're not going to completely change the system (and torpedo many property values, at that). There is overcrowding at some schools, and underenrollment at others - that needs to be addressed.

Good grief, people. I can't figure out is many of you are so simple-minded that you actually believe this fairy tale, or if there is a concentrated campaign to instill fear in the community so that when a less drastic solution is proposed, people welcome it as better than the alternative.

Check that. I am not a big believer in conspiracy theories, and I AM a believer in Occam's Razor. So we'll go with simple-minded.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 13:35     Subject: Re:tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sick of people that overpaid for their homes in Ward 3 trying to kick out anyone that doesn't look like their little snowflake. Let's be real, historically whites have never wanted to go to Deal or Wilson. You can't go house poor and decide you can no longer afford private and want to kick out the kids that have been there for generations. Especially when there is another perfectly fine middle school in Ward 3 that is severely under enrolled.


No kid has been at Deal or Wilson for "generations." Their FAMILIES may have been there for generations - but that doesn't give the current students any rights. Are you seriously suggesting that an OOB student whos mother went to Deal and Wilson has a greater "right" to go there than a kid who lives IB?


No, I wasn't suggesting OOB should be able to get there before IB. I was suggesting that the current diverse IB neighborhoods should not be carved out.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 13:35     Subject: tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
Anonymous wrote:I think the more exclusionary Ward 3 parents become, and the more they wage war on OOB families (who earned their spots at WotP school through established policies and enabled those schools to maximize their budgets) will push the Chancellor towards a solution of no boundaries. Turning "OOB" into a dirty word will necessitate getting rid of it altogether.


I think you are misinterpreting how IB parents see the OOB issue. Basically, it is an issue of capacity. What are we supposed to do when the school is full? Rather than continuing to shoehorn more and more students into a few schools, DCPS needs to make more schools acceptable to DCPS parents. If I were an OOB parent, I would resent the hell out of the fact that I had to drive across town to make sure my DC had a good education. Instead, people feel lucky that they made it into a good school. Demand quality in your own neighborhood. Demand that DCPS do its job.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 13:33     Subject: Re:tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sick of people that overpaid for their homes in Ward 3 trying to kick out anyone that doesn't look like their little snowflake. Let's be real, historically whites have never wanted to go to Deal or Wilson. You can't go house poor and decide you can no longer afford private and want to kick out the kids that have been there for generations. Especially when there is another perfectly fine middle school in Ward 3 that is severely under enrolled.


we did not overpay, we paid market value. we never even considered private, regardless of whether we can afford it or not. if YOU want YOUR little snowflake to go to Deal/Wilson, buy or rent (we did the latter for a good amount of years) in boundary for it. the current system in DC is based on preference for IB residents. if you live OOB for a school, just deal with the reality that there might not be space for your kid since IB (whatever the boundaries are now and will be in the future) kids have the right to go there first. after all, as you point out, there is another perfectly fine Ward 3 MS that is severely under enrolled, so your OOB snowflake can find a spot there.

and as a side note, if your kid has been at Deal "for generations", maybe it's time to pay for some extra tutoring


I live IB for Deal and Wilson. My family has lived here for almost 20 years and sent kids to Deal when many white families wouldn't dare send their kids there. Also, when I said "kick out the kids that have been going there for generations" I meant the minority kids that have been going there (many via IB path). I did not mean MY kids have been going there for generations.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 13:31     Subject: tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I agree with you 100% PP. My kids attended Lafayette and are now at Deal but I really wish the Lafayette community would have staked some guidelines like this and ensured that the school population would always be at least 25% OOB. I know it's pollyana-ish but so many white families talk about wanting diversity, I just with they would put their money where their mouth is. I didn't have the courage to call them on it.

(FWIW we are an IB AA family)


so you would be OK with having your kid kicked out of Lafayette to make space to an OOB kid living in Brookland or Mount Pleasant (given the physical space in the school and the current number of kids at Lafayette, 20% OOB means some IB would have to go elsewhere). or just the white families need to put their money where their mouth is.


I didn't play out the mechanics of this in my head. If this was a viable situation to implement, I don't think any school could turn away IB kids. So no IB families would be out of a seat its just that you could decide as a community that you would accept some OOB students.
Note, San Francisco has moved to a system where residents of the poorest areas in the city get priority to all schools, above all IB students.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 13:29     Subject: tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
^^ You're missing a key point here. I don't think there is nearly the opposition to OOB in Ward 3 as long as there are enough slots to accommodate all IB kids. Maybe I'm wrong and that's just my personal stance. But I draw the line at sending my kid to another school, not at allowing other kids into my school.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 13:24     Subject: tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
Yep PP. It creates a toxic environment. OOB-IB fight.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 13:11     Subject: tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
I think the more exclusionary Ward 3 parents become, and the more they wage war on OOB families (who earned their spots at WotP school through established policies and enabled those schools to maximize their budgets) will push the Chancellor towards a solution of no boundaries. Turning "OOB" into a dirty word will necessitate getting rid of it altogether.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 13:04     Subject: tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
Doing away with boundaries would be a sad mistake. The city would immediately lose probably 20% of its upper-income families to private schools or the suburbs, and that would be a net negative for everyone. I really hope there are more creative ideas on the table.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 13:00     Subject: tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the reference-- so DC needs to integrate the population of upper northwest. what is DC doing to entice African-Americans to live in upper northwest? I know this will sound racist, but the decree is fundamentally racist, but maybe DC could increase public housing in upper northwest as a way to encourage black families EOTP to move into Deal's boundary. Then the city can limit Deal to only those that live in the neighborhood without violating the decree.


The Chancellor will do away with boundaries entirely before this ever happens. And I'd be ok with that.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 12:57     Subject: Re:tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sick of people that overpaid for their homes in Ward 3 trying to kick out anyone that doesn't look like their little snowflake. Let's be real, historically whites have never wanted to go to Deal or Wilson. You can't go house poor and decide you can no longer afford private and want to kick out the kids that have been there for generations. Especially when there is another perfectly fine middle school in Ward 3 that is severely under enrolled.


we did not overpay, we paid market value. we never even considered private, regardless of whether we can afford it or not. if YOU want YOUR little snowflake to go to Deal/Wilson, buy or rent (we did the latter for a good amount of years) in boundary for it. the current system in DC is based on preference for IB residents. if you live OOB for a school, just deal with the reality that there might not be space for your kid since IB (whatever the boundaries are now and will be in the future) kids have the right to go there first. after all, as you point out, there is another perfectly fine Ward 3 MS that is severely under enrolled, so your OOB snowflake can find a spot there.

and as a side note, if your kid has been at Deal "for generations", maybe it's time to pay for some extra tutoring


You assume there will be boundaries.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 12:44     Subject: tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I agree with you 100% PP. My kids attended Lafayette and are now at Deal but I really wish the Lafayette community would have staked some guidelines like this and ensured that the school population would always be at least 25% OOB. I know it's pollyana-ish but so many white families talk about wanting diversity, I just with they would put their money where their mouth is. I didn't have the courage to call them on it.

(FWIW we are an IB AA family)


so you would be OK with having your kid kicked out of Lafayette to make space to an OOB kid living in Brookland or Mount Pleasant (given the physical space in the school and the current number of kids at Lafayette, 20% OOB means some IB would have to go elsewhere). or just the white families need to put their money where their mouth is.


I didn't play out the mechanics of this in my head. If this was a viable situation to implement, I don't think any school could turn away IB kids. So no IB families would be out of a seat its just that you could decide as a community that you would accept some OOB students.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 12:26     Subject: tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
^^^^I think this is where the gaping hole is in the city's and DCPSs' educational policy and planning. For political reasons around race and SES, they try to push educationally ambitious parents into scenarios that will help less fortunate/less involved families RATHER THAN doing what it takes to entice those families into the situation.

This takes strategic planning. excellent communication, acknowledgement of uncomfortable truths and big political cojones. I worry that our city afficials are just not equipped for the REAL work that increase educational equity in the city.
Anonymous
Post 11/08/2013 11:56     Subject: Re:tired of "diversity for Deal and Wilson" as an argument
I understand what you are saying, and agree with it, for the most part. But the bolded sentence makes me cringe (even though I generally agree with it). My kid is not a tool to be used for social change. She's a 7 yo who deserves the best public education possible (as do all 7 yos, and all kids). And I'm fortunate to be able to provide her (within reason) with those opportunities. I wish all kids had the same opportunities, but I'm not willing to sacrifice her on the alter of social engineering so DCPS can "improve." Call me selfish, but that's how I view my responsibility as a parent. I'm not talking about being in a lily-white, rich school - she goes to a charter now, and the diversity there, both racial and SES, whould make many JKLMM parents run for the hills. But the minute I feel like she's being disadvantaged to further some political agenda is the minute I start screaming bloody murder, and either move to the 'burbs <shudder> or start applying to privates.


11:08 here. I totally agree with you and I didn't mean to suggest that the city should use your child (or other families like you) as a tool in a way that would be a detriment to you (like cutting the IB population to reserve seats for OOB kids). What I mean is that we as a city should give you (or families like yours) an appealing choice that would hopefully entice you to put your child in a school other than Deal and that will, in turn, help to make that other school better and more diverse. At all times, though, the choice should be yours.