Anonymous wrote:A lot of misunderstanding on this thread about admission to the top schools. The top schools pick whomever they want. Sure, you have to have a certain minimum SAT score and certain minimum GPA, but the idea that either has to be perfect is wrong.

With the discretionary spots the admissions committees have they are looking for kids who are going to go on to do great things in academia, business, government, etc. There is a certain kind of kid who fits this bill and kids with perfect GPAs and SATs are actually unlikely to be that kid.

I don't think this quality can be manufactured. Kids either have it or they don't. Can it be faked? I doubt it.

Let your kid be who they are. 9th grade only matters to the extent it might drag down the GPA a little. There are other things that matter a lot more, especially for those tippy top schools.

Yes. SATs need to be above 2200 or maybe above 2100. However, going from 2250 to 2400 is not going to make a material difference in chances. Once you're over this threshold, the rest of the package becomes much more important.

A few Bs are fine and a perfect 4.0 is not clearly better than 3.9 or 3.8 (these are unweighted). I do think one or more Cs would be a big handicap, unless there is a very good explanation.

You didn't mention two other important factors: (a) applying ED, which is good for their matriculation stats, and (b) being full pay.

A lot of misunderstanding on this thread about admission to the top schools. The top schools pick whomever they want. Sure, you have to have a certain minimum SAT score and certain minimum GPA, but the idea that either has to be perfect is wrong.

With the discretionary spots the admissions committees have they are looking for kids who are going to go on to do great things in academia, business, government, etc. There is a certain kind of kid who fits this bill and kids with perfect GPAs and SATs are actually unlikely to be that kid.

I don't think this quality can be manufactured. Kids either have it or they don't. Can it be faked? I doubt it.

Let your kid be who they are. 9th grade only matters to the extent it might drag down the GPA a little. There are other things that matter a lot more, especially for those tippy top schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not sad to me, because as 09:31 points out, there needs to be some sort of evaluative process--and, again, there are LOTS of amazing colleges that have greater than 9% admissions rates! I pointed out that my son got a full ride to Maryland but got deferred/rejected by Caltech...I just can't feel sorry for someone who doesn't get into any school of his/her choice, because it's too much of an overall crapshoot & there are wonderful alternatives.

Of course I am sad for students who end up on a psych's couch as a result of stress, but hopefully parents are keeping their kids' expectations in check in re: top/selective colleges.

Sounds like your extremely bright son was a mirror image of his competitors which is why highly competitive schools are looking for that extra something, the proverbial hook. Getting into the honors program at Maryland is no small feat. While you feel no sorrow for other kids who don't get into the school of their choice, I am sure you showed compassion for your own when he was rejected.

Caltech is a lovely school, and we have had the pleasure to work with several of their students and graduates over the past few years. However, they have an extremely small class size. As you say, things work out well even if you do not attend your first choice of school, and your son may find that being close to the center of defense, intelligence, and military opportunities gives him an advantage in the future.

CalTech's admission rate was 11% for the class of 2017. The freshmen class only admitted 249 and only 10% were from the mid-atlantic region. These odds aren't even a crapshoot but agree that the D.C. area is a goldmine for the opportunities you listed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not sad to me, because as 09:31 points out, there needs to be some sort of evaluative process--and, again, there are LOTS of amazing colleges that have greater than 9% admissions rates! I pointed out that my son got a full ride to Maryland but got deferred/rejected by Caltech...I just can't feel sorry for someone who doesn't get into any school of his/her choice, because it's too much of an overall crapshoot & there are wonderful alternatives.

Of course I am sad for students who end up on a psych's couch as a result of stress, but hopefully parents are keeping their kids' expectations in check in re: top/selective colleges.

Sounds like your extremely bright son was a mirror image of his competitors which is why highly competitive schools are looking for that extra something, the proverbial hook. Getting into the honors program at Maryland is no small feat. While you feel no sorrow for other kids who don't get into the school of their choice, I am sure you showed compassion for your own when he was rejected.

Caltech is a lovely school, and we have had the pleasure to work with several of their students and graduates over the past few years. However, they have an extremely small class size. As you say, things work out well even if you do not attend your first choice of school, and your son may find that being close to the center of defense, intelligence, and military opportunities gives him an advantage in the future.

Consider that important connections to the "right" people can sometimes make the difference between an acceptance and a rejection.

Anonymous wrote:It is not sad to me, because as 09:31 points out, there needs to be some sort of evaluative process--and, again, there are LOTS of amazing colleges that have greater than 9% admissions rates! I pointed out that my son got a full ride to Maryland but got deferred/rejected by Caltech...I just can't feel sorry for someone who doesn't get into any school of his/her choice, because it's too much of an overall crapshoot & there are wonderful alternatives.

Of course I am sad for students who end up on a psych's couch as a result of stress, but hopefully parents are keeping their kids' expectations in check in re: top/selective colleges.

Sounds like your extremely bright son was a mirror image of his competitors which is why highly competitive schools are looking for that extra something, the proverbial hook. Getting into the honors program at Maryland is no small feat. While you feel no sorrow for other kids who don't get into the school of their choice, I am sure you showed compassion for your own when he was rejected.

It is not sad to me, because as 09:31 points out, there needs to be some sort of evaluative process--and, again, there are LOTS of amazing colleges that have greater than 9% admissions rates! I pointed out that my son got a full ride to Maryland but got deferred/rejected by Caltech...I just can't feel sorry for someone who doesn't get into any school of his/her choice, because it's too much of an overall crapshoot & there are wonderful alternatives.

Of course I am sad for students who end up on a psych's couch as a result of stress, but hopefully parents are keeping their kids' expectations in check in re: top/selective colleges.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: 05:57--for the most part, no, a college admission officer isn't too sympathetic about two Cs *when compared to other applicants* to the top schools. Of course, there are hundreds of schools that have a better than 14% chance of admission.

How sad that kids who are brilliant can be penalized for a "hiccup" early in their academic years. No wonder so many driven kids end of on a psych's couch.

Well, with to otherwise equal kids, should the admissions officer choose the one with the C over the one with all As? What would be the rationale for that? There are a million good students out there applying to the same schools. They have to make choices somehow.

To --> two

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: 05:57--for the most part, no, a college admission officer isn't too sympathetic about two Cs *when compared to other applicants* to the top schools. Of course, there are hundreds of schools that have a better than 14% chance of admission.

How sad that kids who are brilliant can be penalized for a "hiccup" early in their academic years. No wonder so many driven kids end of on a psych's couch.

Well, with to otherwise equal kids, should the admissions officer choose the one with the C over the one with all As? What would be the rationale for that? There are a million good students out there applying to the same schools. They have to make choices somehow.

Anonymous wrote:Re: 05:57--for the most part, no, a college admission officer isn't too sympathetic about two Cs *when compared to other applicants* to the top schools. Of course, there are hundreds of schools that have a better than 14% chance of admission.

How sad that kids who are brilliant can be penalized for a "hiccup" early in their academic years. No wonder so many driven kids end of on a psych's couch.

Re: 05:57--for the most part, no, a college admission officer isn't too sympathetic about two Cs *when compared to other applicants* to the top schools. Of course, there are hundreds of schools that have a better than 14% chance of admission.

PP's C grades were in 9th grade, and it doesn't appear there were any more. I would think the negative impact would come more so after 9th grade since many kids are acclimatiing to the new 9th grade workload. Even though 8th grade is preparatory, 9th grade work is still much different from 8th grade.

I would hope a college admission offer could recognize someone in 9th grade with two Cs and the academic remainder of As would be a viable contender for admission.

Highly selective schools are now lottery schools. It's just how it is. You can have 4.0 and 2400 and all the ECs, but you still are not likely to get in. Happily there are other schools, but it's unlikely that your child can get any C grades in HS and be headed to an Ivy. My son graduated HS with 55 college credits & 11 AP grades (all 5 except one 4) & tons of ECs & a 4.20 GPA from a science/tech school. He got a full ride at Maryland, but he didn't get into Caltech (deferred & then rejected). It's all good, but it's definitely important to keep your expectations realistic.

I've said this before, but I remember at the selective schools, the question always came up whether it was more important to take rigorous HS classes or get top grades. The respective college admins uniformly responded that it was important to get top grades in rigorous classes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it sounds like if you have a couple of C's you had better be a superstar in some other area if you plan to get into H/Y/P or a few of the other highly selective unis.

That's how I read it. However, there are so many good colleges that aren't H/Y/P. They aren't the only game in town.

I've been through this too. Here's what I learned from DC's friends' experiences.

If you have a C or two, then the best approach is to tell them your good, true explanation (I was taking care of my ill mother). Or, maybe you can explain that the C's in English were because you were building a nuclear reactor in your garage. I hear that colleges are receptive to good explanations, although I haven't personally seen it in action.

Otherwise, I hate to be that person, but it's not really realistic to place a lot of hope in a highly selective school, even if you do have national-level achievements. I know a kid who fit this description and was rejected at the top colleges.

Of course you should apply, even with a C or two, if this is your dream school. Just don't lose your heart to the extreme reach school. Fortunately, as PP points out, there are plenty of other great colleges, so make sure you fall in love with one or two of these at the same time.

Anonymous wrote:So it sounds like if you have a couple of C's you had better be a superstar in some other area if you plan to get into H/Y/P or a few of the other highly selective unis.

That's how I read it. However, there are so many good colleges that aren't H/Y/P. They aren't the only game in town.