Actually, that was a great post.

Feel free to add after coffee, too.

Anonymous wrote: The posts on this thread are quite helpful. My DC is applying to Bowdoin and several of the other schools noted above, and sorting out the experience of the small liberal arts school vs. the small university (3500-6000 undergrads) is touch. Statistically nowadays, however, Tuft's admission rate is about as low as the top LACs so I don't know whether that changes the experience much from 15 years ago.

I went to another New England SLAC and loved it. though I strongly encouraged my 2 oldest kids to look at my alma mater and other SLACs (including Bowdoin), they chose a research university with approx. 5,000 undergrads. They've had a positive experience overall, but it has been quite different from my own.

In terms of social life, at a bigger school it's a lot more important to find your tribe early on and stick with it. For our kids, who play a varsity sport, that means they socialize almost exclusively with their teammates, though they both have been close to their roommates/suitemates as well. At meals, they almost always dine with teammates, or with their roommates, and on the weekends, they hang out with the same kids. That said, it's surprising to me that when we visit them at school, they know and greet lots of kids whom we meet on campus. They don't hang out with these kids, but they do know them as acquaintances, which is different, I think from the experience of students at very large universities.

I also played a varsity sport in college, but in addition to my teammates, I had lots of friends from my dorm (not just my roomate), my major, etc. I always felt like I could walk into the dining hall and find someone to eat with, even if I was walking in alone. In contrast to my sons' experience, these were more than "hey, how's it going" acquaintances. Over the years, I've kept in touch with quite a few of my classmates, and when I go back to reunions, I look forward to seeing those who don't live in the DC area. The alum network for my school is robust and has been a great source of professional and personal support for me.

In terms of academics, my sons, who are outgoing and confident, have been able to get to know a few faculty members, primarily those in their majors. That's been fine for them, but for kids who are not as outgoing it could be a problem. Here's an example: our younger son had some questions about signing up for classes as a rising sophomore. Because he had not yet declared a major, he had not been assigned a faculty advisor, but, like other freshmen and sophs, had a non-faculty advisor with whom he could consult. The non-faculty advisors, though, are generally useless for any questions beyond how to maneuver through the university bureaucracy. So, our son, went to his professor, a young guy, new to the university, who couldn't answer his questions, but who flagged down a very senior colleges, who was, actually quite delighted to advise my son. She also encouraged him to get involved in a service project that she developed in conjunction with a local elementary school.

So, all's well that ends well, but to contrast with my own experience, I can recall many full professors who were quite generous in advising me even though I wasn't in their department. In several cases I didn't realize until years later that they were highly-regarded as scholars in their fields. It's astonishing to me that they would sit down with me as a frehman or sophomore to give me feedback on a paper, explaining in great detail their comments and suggestions for improvement. And, as I recall this, it's even more astonishing to me because I wasn't as confident as my kids are and was a bit shy about going to office hours to talk with profs.

This has been a bit long and probably a bit rambly as I've not yet had my coffee, but I hope it sheds some light on the subject. For everyone with kids waiting for early decision notices in the next few days -- good luck!

One thing to keep in mind about Tufts is that it's not need blind but a lot of the top liberal arts schools are, at least for American students applying as freshmen. If a student needs substantial aid, they may have better admissions results at a top lac than at Tufts.

The posts on this thread are quite helpful. My DC is applying to Bowdoin and several of the other schools noted above, and sorting out the experience of the small liberal arts school vs. the small university (3500-6000 undergrads) is touch. Statistically nowadays, however, Tuft's admission rate is about as low as the top LACs so I don't know whether that changes the experience much from 15 years ago.

I have one kid who graduated Bowdoin and another Georgetown plus several alumni relatives at Georgetown. They are very different schools.

The kid at Bowdoin knew everyone on campus and had a closer relationship across the board to profs, deans, even the cafeteria people and the head of security who, at times, acts more like a dad than a private police officer. The classes are rigorous, very small (even a freshman class can have 5 students in it) and there are no easy classes. There is no let up on the work and the profs have very high standards. The students have a reputation for "preppy" but that wouldn't be the word I would use; I would say there are a good number of upper-class American kids but they have a slightly quirky bent and most love the outdoors. While Bowdoin doesn't have frats, they have houses; all students are arbitrarily assigned and the students attend house parties. Even without frats, there is a lot of drinking. The kids graduate and they all stay in touch, share apts with each other, etc. Almost all the students do well applying to grad/ professional schools and go on to excellent jobs.

The one who attended Georgetown got a lot out of the city, with more opportunities for internship than Bowdoin which is remote. (The Bowdoin one had to use summers for that.) The school isn't as personal but kid knew profs in his department, was not as close to professors overall-- much less staff-- and had some friends, but not that lifelong cameraderie. (Even my relatives who are alum all have a handful to a dozen Georgetown friends but it's nothing like the Bowdoin kids who have dozens of close alumni friends.) The classes varied in quality and it was always possible to find easier classes. The academics were more rigorous and intense at Bowdoin. But the name recognition and career center for Georgetown was much greater. The vibe at Georgetown is preppier, more international rich kid, arguably some would say snobby. (The Pell Grant percentage for Georgetown is about 10% while it's about 16% for Bowdoin-- both still considered pretty low.)

[quote=Anonymous]Biggest differences are size (Universities like Tufts, Emory, Wash U, Tulane, Rice, Vanderbilt and then the Ivys with more like 5000-9000 undergrads adn then some grad schools) feel different than a smaller place like the NESCAC SLACs with no graduate schools. Also being in cities (Gtown and Tufts). The larger schools mostly seem to have a big Greek or Greek equilvalent social scene to help make the places seem smaller and more personal perhaps.

I have one kid at Midd and I went to Tufts. Very different feel at Middlebury, more close-knit campus community and my kid knows her professors much better than I ever did. Academically she works far far harder and is around far smarter kids than I was, but suspect that is more to do with evolution of all these schools to being more compeitive and full of better prepared students now.

At least from her HS, getting into Midd/Bowdoin/Williams/Amherst overall seemed harder than Tufts (somewhat, based on the what types of classes kids were taking in HS and how many were NMSFs). Georgetown from DC is super hard to get into unless a faculty/employee kid, those have preference and seem to take up most of the spots for local kids, at least according to my DDs college guidance counselor. [/quote]


Thanks, this is helpful.

DS applied early decision to Bowdoin in this round. But interesting discussion of Midd and Amherst as those were the other two finalists in the decision. Loved them all. Loved Bowdoin the most.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amherst has a lovely town filled with all kinds of shops, unique ethnic restaurants literally a few steps from campus. I would hardly call that isolated.

+1. Amherst is also part of a 5-college consortium with U Mass, Smith, Holyoak and Hampshire. There's lots going on in the area.

Amherst has given up requiring a liberal arts education of students. The college no longer maintains a core curriculum or even distribution requirements. Apart from completing a major, students need only take a First-Year Seminar on a topic such as “Reading Gender,” or “Eros and Insight.” Everything else—including math, science, foreign languages, American history, and all of Western civ—is optional. English majors can skip the history of the language, Shakespeare, even all of British or American literature—instead mastering film, creative writing, or cultural and gender studies. Many other disciplines are likewise lax.